Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
cMusharraf is obviously worried that the corruption amongst the lawyers is more deep rooted than he ever imagined. Look at it they are up in arms all over the country and want to remove him before he gets to review their cases.
Bhai jaan, Khuda khasam, aap aisa majaak na kara karai :)
Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)
here’s something to release the tension people:omg: 
Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)
come on, now you are clutching at all sources.
now bhagwan daas is gonna be back, javed Iqbal who was holding the fort until Justice Bhagwandas’ return will pass on the baton to Bhagwandas.
key words are “lawyers and political parties” basically proving the point that this is no organic phenomenon by lawyers, but is a planned approach by bhagoray politicians, larry moe and curly…
why fret now, Bahgwan Das is back, he will do what is needed
or, if he does not do what political ghundas want him to do then he is going to be blasted in media as well 
the bar association has not explaained on what grounds was mr. Bokhari disbarred? just cuz they did not like him? lets hear it eh?
Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)
their arguments will keep changing, now they dont want to accept Bhagwandas as acting CJ,…
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
Focusing on Bokhari is a good way to divert attention from the big issue: misuse of authority by the president to save his skin. That is the issue, the rest is all hogwash. Concentrate on that.
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
bhagwandas is back, if teh charges against CJ are real then he would need to pay for it, no matter how much for or against he was govt policies, rice krispies or ninja turtles. None of that matters.
sure continue the debate on other aspects but this 'crisis' was started when CJ was suspended (not fired) based on complaints.
now lets see if those complaints are valid :)
btw CJ did not want to be evalauated by teh council because his issue was that judges on the council had charges against them...yeah, you think? and what did teh CJ do against these judges..nothing, so if he thought they were good nuff to handle publci cases, damn it they are good nuff to handle your case.
did teh CJ abuse his power and bring disrepute to the office, should he be penalized for that? THAT is the main question here, and let Bhagwandas figure it out now. Unless now he is not trustworthy because he is not resigning in protest :D
Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)
Two issues here yar:
No one disputes that a reference could or should have been filed against the CJ if he has indulged in misconduct. But the suspension and house arrest etc etc. That is no go.
Some of the cars used by Ch. Iftikhar were actually given to some previous “chaheetay” CJ by the govt. Irshad Hassan might have been one of them. This was revealed by a former law minister. Iftikhar Gillani. So obviously the accountability here is not impartial and across the board. U might also want to have a look at another thread I created here which details the excesses of the executive itself.
And just when the CJ is being dragged by his hair and his coat torn up by a lowly SHO:
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm
2 wrongs dont make a right and I want to root for Mushy to clear out corruption but this exercise here probably has some other objectives, which I can’t digest. He can wear his stinking uniform if he wants to be but PLEASE dont screw with the judiciary. Thank you.
Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)
Mughal King Humayun after loosing the Kingdom of India to Sher Shah Suri went to Iran and Safavid Kings helped him with money, equipments and men so that Humayun could try to regain his lost Kingdom. On his way to Delhi to regain his lost Kingdom, Humayum died. His son, Mugh-le-Azam Jalal-ud-did Akber, I believe 9 or 10 years old at that time, became new King.
At the time of death, army of Humayun was advancing towards Delhi (ground of Pani-pat) against the forces of Sher Shah Suri. After the death of Humayun, guardian of Akber asked Akber that what to do, with expectation that new little King would ask to return. But Akber uttered an historical sentence that is even remembered today. He said ‘Takht yea takhta’ that means, ‘throne or guillotine’. War took place (second battle of Pani Pat) and Akber won, becoming the new King of India. :halo:
Well, thus who care of consequence? I believe that Musharraf should behave like a true commando and dictator and thus kick the ass of these crooks on the road :). Many of us Pakistanis are with you Mush .. Come on, line them up, and shoot them all 
I think that Musharraf should show these corrupt idiots what real dictators are like. He should declare emergency in the country and complete news blackout then he should gather all corrupt politicians, lawyers, judges, and propagandist from media that are shouting, and line them up in front of firing squad, then order shoot.
Well, that is what dictators do and have done through out centuries. Even Kings does the same and almost all past Muslim Khalifas use to do the same too. Just imagine that lawyers coming out in any Muslim country and protest against the dictators there (as most Muslim countries are run by dictators). The obvious result for them would be a quick ticket to graveyard.
Power of dictators does not come from lawyers or even people but from the army they command. Musharraf should be more concerned about the loyalty of forces under him, that’s all. It is politicians that are mostly worried about popularity amongst people. But then, I am very much convinced that even if Musharraf is not dependent on people’s popularity, still he is probably the most popular leader Pakistan has ever produced and he is still riding high in popularity.
Fact is that people of Pakistan also know that these lawyers and politicians that are making hue and cry are mostly corrupts, and that is why other then corrupt politicians, most people are not coming on streets in their support. Actually most of the people are with Musharraf and fed up with those crook politicians, Lawyers and media people working on the payment of corrupt politicians.
So, what is the worry for Musharraf anyhow? It is no point to be gentleman in Pakistan power politics and I believe that Musharraf should act as it is expected from any dictator.
If I was in his position, I would have done what I have written and leave the consequence on future to Allah. As, what Jalal-ud-din Akber did as young King in command. ‘Takht yea takhta’:).
To the President: Dear President, when all beleive that you are dictator, whatever you do, then why not show all these idiots, the true face a dictator should have? :).. Aap jiss tarah rule kar rahay ho, all dictators in their grave must be turning in agony. Aap tou unhay baadnaam kar rahay hain. Kiya dicyator ayesay hee rule kertay hain kay handful of corrupt lawyers come on the road and shout, and get away with it?
[Though, I have to agree that probably the time has not come yet to act that viciously, but it seems that the time is coming near every day :). I am sure that a general who is commando by nature and training, would not act viciously if pushed by these goons to the wall. Maybe I am wrong, but let see.]
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
^Bilkul , bilkul
Zill-e-Subhani, Mughl-e-Azam Zindabaaaaaaaaaaad
Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)
That is life 
Jo dara woh mara 
I am sure that if commando would go, he would not go because some corrupt lawyers, politicians and paid media men are making hue and cry on the street. Nevertheless, IF and IF he decides to go, I am sure (that is what I hope) is that, before going, he should send some (if not all) of those corrupts to the grave, before going
Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)
LOL, Pakistans greatest problem is the class of people who believe in the power of the lathi over all else. They see treason and corruption as equivalent, and confuse peoples apathy with support for their acts of cruelty, omission and comission.
Ah well, those who dispense cruel justice receive cruel justice, just ask Zia ul Haq
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
Well, if Musharraf was corrupt, I would have been against him too. I know many in Pakistan high posts and know how some are corrupts to the heel. Personally, if I would like to gain in Pakistan legally or illegally, I would gain most if there is rule of corrupt political power in Pakistan. Rather, I would gain most if PPP is in power.
But, I know that what ever I would gain personally, I won’t be taking that to my grave, and in the end, I have to answer to Allah. So, why I should want to gain anything illegally and thus wish that corrupts come to power again?
Regarding treason, I do not believe that government servant (that includes people in forces) when act to safeguard the interest of country, constitution should stand in between them and their action. Rather those that act to safeguard country from corrupts, they are doing great service to the country (regardless of what constitution says), and that is not treason.
Nevertheless, as for treason, I believe that treason is not 'to follow' or 'not follow' the constitution, but it is to do something that harms the country. Thus, the biggest traitors in the country are corrupts. If following constitution or not could make a person traitor, then all revolutionaries, or those that act to change the constitution, were traitors.
** Well, under constitution, no Pakistanis should keep illegal fire arms and in that way, according to Pakistani constitution, all that have fire arms in the country without licence are breaking constitution and thus could be declared traitor.
Under Pakistani constitution (or constitution anywhere in the world), all type of corruption while in government service is not allowed (it is against the constitution). So, in that way, all corrupts are guilty of treason, as when they do corruption, they break the constitution.
Even Chief justice could be guilty of treason, as according to constitution he did wrong by using his influence to get government job for his son. ***Thus CJ broke his oath of upholding the constitution, he broke the constitution, and thus did treason. Right?*
Now, what punishment should be recommended for CJ that broke the constitution while under oath, that not to use his office to gain illegal benefits, like getting job for his idiot son or use government facilities (like cars and other protocols) that he was not entitled to under constitution?
Same goes regarding NS and BB, who did corruption, did not declared their asset to EC when contesting election, lied to tax office and did not payed proper tax, when under constitution all that contest election should have good character (article 62 and 63) and obviously should not do corruption while in office or lie. Are these corrupt goons (NS and BB) not guilty of breaking the constitution and thus should be charged of treason?
At least what army did, thrown corrupt government from power, they did to safeguard the country from corrupts, corrupts that were breaking the constitution daily by doing corruption and misusing the power they were trusted (something they should not be doing under the constitution, breaking that trust). Think about these corrupts that break the constitution not for the benefit of the country but for their selfish personal benefits and interests.
Now who are the real traitors and should be punished for treason? One that breaks the constitution to safeguard the country from corrupts or one that continuously breaks the constitution for their greed and personal benefits?
*Just think: *
A corrupt harms the country for his greed, personal financial gains, and personal satisfactions. The harm by the corruption of corrupts effects the country in every way, from holding development in the country, increasing misery amongst the poor, increasing poverty in the country, spreading injustice in the country, as well as security of the country. Harm from corrupt corruption is ever lasting and keep destroying the country all the time.
A traitor that sells the secrets of the country, that person also does that for greed and personal gains, just like corrupt. Only difference is that, treason of selling secret by that traitor ‘may or may not’ harm the country or security of the country, as that secret can become out of date in no time.
Thus, when we look at the effects of traitor and corrupts on the country, it is obvious that corrupts harm the country more than traitor. Thus, corrupts are more dangerous for the country and they should be treated worse than a traitor. Treason of corrupts (as their harming the country is treason) should be punished severely. It is best for the country that all corrupts should get hanged.
Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)
**Reference matter would be decided satisfactorily: ACJP
**KARACHI: Acting Chief Justice of Pakistan (ACJP), Rana Bhagwan Das has said that the presidential reference against Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry would be dealt with adequately.
Talking to the media after taking oath as ACJP, Justice Bhagwan Das told that the Supreme Judicial Council would be taking a decision on the issue of holding the hearing of the reference in open or in camera. He said that the judiciary would not disappoint the people and the nation would soon hear the good news.
Justice Das is a man who chooses his words very carefully. I wonder why he would say such a thing on record. If he has actually said this, Mush might already be twitching in his shoes :hmmm:
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
Some people must be alarmed on this statement.
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
*Well, under constitution, no Pakistanis should keep illegal fire arms and in that way, according to Pakistani constitution, all that have fire arms in the country without licence are breaking constitution and thus could be declared traitor. *
*Under Pakistani constitution (or constitution anywhere in the world), all type of corruption while in government service is not allowed (it is against the constitution). So, in that way, all corrupts are guilty of treason, as when they do corruption, they break the constitution. *
Even Chief justice could be guilty of treason, as according to constitution he did wrong by using his influence to get government job for his son. **Thus CJ broke his oath of upholding the constitution, he broke the constitution, and thus did treason. Right?**
Thus, when we look at the effects of traitor and corrupts on the country, it is obvious that corrupts harm the country more than traitor. Thus, corrupts are more dangerous for the country and they should be treated worse than a traitor. Treason of corrupts (as their harming the country is treason) should be punished severely. It is best for the country that all corrupts should get hanged.
Okay so lets hang Iftikhar chaudhary, and the cirrupt judhes have already resigned for the fear of inquiry, in this way you highness have already cleaned up the judiciary of corruption................Great Job.
Whome else your higness think are other corrupts in the country so that they can also be hanged or do you want to wait for Naeem Bukhari to expose them?
Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)
also, he has reopened the in-camera or open trial debate. Correct me if I am wrong but the previous Council had decided that the debate would be held in camera. My feeling is Justice Daas is going to go with an open trial here 
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
If the SJC works without bias for the Justice Iftikhar Chowdary or the Govt (aka "Musharraf" to many), any 'news' by all means can only be one. Good for some and bad for some.
The govt says the reference was filed with all proof, and the allegations against the Judge, no matter how small in comparison to what else goes on in Pakistan or whether suddenly the 'nation' considers them punishable or not, are enough to send a CJ home packing.
So if the 'nation' considers his formal 'sending-home' under this reference 'bad news'. I say good luck ever expecting justice. Because if a corrupt CJ is acceptable, go right ahead. jump off cliffs for all one cares.
If it's 'good news', perhaps the govt has taken advantage for own good using these small issues to create a storm and get rid of the ex-CJ. But then again, a govt does what it does, be it ideal democracy or not. Heck a dictator has many other ways to get rid of individuals. This particular dictator doesn't use them too much...
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
saleem your legal maneuvering is excellent. If you have all the logics to prove government case, i wonder why are they unable to find themselves a decent lawyer. You can do the job for them.
Even Wasi Zafar has changed his stance about suspension and converted to forced leave. I wonder which straws you are still catching?
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
Haris: The sad part in all of this is that some of us are actually glad to see a man go home who provided justice to more people in shorter time than ever b4 in Pak. Look at the reduction in backlog. We're also glad to send home the first CJ in Pakistan to ever stay back after hours just to listen to those people who couldn't afford a lawyer. I am not going to plead his case. I am only too biased in his favor. But if u think this world or Pakistan works on the basis on 2+2=4, then y r we stopping at CJ Iftikhar? If his misconduct was affecting his judgments..send him home. But the question that needs to be asked is this: Did any of the allegations made in the references have anything to do with the man's integrity inside the court? Not in my mind.
Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)
Two issues here yar:
O bhai...suspension is a go. obviously the guy can not hear his own case. e has to be suspended and an acting CJ is placed to lead the council to review the case.
House arrest I am not in favour off.
people also claimed that he did not have access to his office, well hey maybe it needed to be sealed off to collect evidence, and prevent him or his cronies from destroying evidence.
fine...accountability is not impartial. a man of real priniciples would have said no to perks that his predecessors may have enjoyed but were not right.
And just when the CJ is being dragged by his hair and his coat torn up by a lowly SHO:
Obviously CJ wanted to make it a political issue by walking all the way. CJ or no CJ when you are provided transportation for your own safety or to maintain order, you do that. How many other alleged criminals get the benefit of doing what they want? He was not going for a valima..he was going due to legal proceedings against him. The cops were rough and that is wrong. Perhaps CJ sahab now realizes that how police actions impact lowly citizens each day which btw he has done little about.
2 wrongs dont make a right and I want to root for Mushy to clear out corruption but this exercise here probably has some other objectives, which I can't digest. He can wear his stinking uniform if he wants to be but PLEASE dont screw with the judiciary. Thank you.
Other objectives or no other objectives, if the CJ was clean, he would have no issue. Question is .. is the CJ clean. From teh accounts of him blasting ppl in his office for covering his son's story and having the entire SCJ pressure a Tv station to stop covering the story and apologize on air, it seems there was scewing with teh judiciary going on.
lastly, whatever issues you have with musharraf, lets not call it a 'stinking uniform' it is the uniform that was worn by our heroes, as they laid their lives on the line for Pakistan.