Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

what a farce…our politicians are just…i dunno..revolting

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

:rotfl: your thought’s are echoed by everyone who has read this kid’s post.
Your post above re appointing the murderer Governor shows the latest example of his bakwass.

Let’s leave him to his stupidity :smiley:

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

The ex CJ was due to hear a number of case that would expose the govt, of course not anymore!

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\03\12\story_12-3-2007_pg1_7

Iftikhar was set to hear vital cases

ISLAMABAD: A number of cases in which the federal government was made a respondent were to be heard by suspended Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry in the coming days.

Various benches will now hear these cases in accordance with a fresh cause list. Among the high-profile cases against the government is a lawsuit filed by the NWFP government seeking the recovery of Rs 110 billion as net hydel profit from the federal government and WAPDA. The chief justice had served notice on the federal government to submit a reply in this case.

The federal government had also been served notice by the CJ in a constitutional petition accusing the government of “massive overcharging” in petroleum products. Opposition Senator Rukhsana Zubairi accused the government of overcharging Rs 170 billion in the form of additional duties and taxes. The attorney general is defending the federal government in this case.

**The most important case is that of missing citizens, in which fresh notices were served on the Interior Ministry and Defence Ministry. The case had been pending for a year, but a recent constitutional petition by the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) led to progress in proceedings. The CJ issued frequent directions to the federal government in this case.
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**A review petition filed by the federal government against the Supreme Court’s verdict on the Pakistan Steel Mills’ privatisation is also pending.
**
A number of complaints, also to be heard by the CJ, accusing the Punjab government of a criminal offence for allowing kite flying for two days have been filed with the SC. The case of a kite-flying ban violation by the Punjab government is also pending.

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

Sad.

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

What an allegations people makes that is beyond imagination and have no grounds too. Most of their writing is BS without substance or intelligence.

Ishrat-ul-Ibad is a corrupt and murderer.

and who is putting that allegation? PPP Jiyalas ..:rotfl::mocking:

that is most funnies part of all alegations :rotfl::yahoo::hehe:

You know why I am rolling with laughter?

It is because of all cases and allegations that is made on Ishrat-ul-Ibad, it was by the government that by all evidence were themselves crooks, murderer and corrupts, while by all evidence, Ishrat-ul-Ibad is not only innocent and honest but Angel in front of them crooks.

**As for PPP, their Abba Jaan (their zil-le-subhani), that is Z A Bhutto, who was not only one that had charges of corruption and murder, but he was actually a murderer and legally can be called MURDERER. It is because we are not talking about charges of murder on BHUTTO but that he was convicted murderer and was hanged on crime of murder that he did. **

I am not talking about charges but actual conviction by all level of courts and then receiving punishment. ‘BHUTTO THE MURDERER’ was not only CONVICTED MURDERER but was given PUNISHMENT by HIGHEST COURT and was HANGED AS MURDERER. Not to call Bhutto MURDERER would be contempt of court.

Charge happens when a case goes in court and that is what these corrupt parties had put on Ishrat-ul-Ibad.

** Ishrat-ul-Ibad and many other politicians are MULZIM (person that were charged but never convicted from any court, hence cannot be called Mujrim - a convict) of murder but Z A BHUTTO was MUJRIM (had final conviction from court), a murderer (Whose case went to court, charges proven and he was convicted, then hanged on that charge). **

[No one ever says that Bhutto was not convicted murderer. Only thing people say that since verdict on him regarding 3rd degree murder was split, he should not have been hanged but should have been given life imprisonment. Nevertheless, we mortals have no right to challenge the verdict of highest court in Pakistan]

YOU CANNOT CALL A PERSON MURDERER JUST BECAUSE A CASE HAD BEEN REGISTERED IN COURT OF MURDER BUT YOU CAN CALL A PERSON MURDERER WHEN COURT HAD ACCEPTED THAT CHARGE AND GIVEN VERDICT.

Now there is no court in the world that have convicted Ishrat-ul-Ibad of murder or any crime, that a person can call him murderer or criminal. He is murderer as much as Zardari, Bainazeer, Nawaz and well, most of our politicians are, murderers, as all have charges against them by people (charges on some went to court and some did not, and that does not matter, charges are still there).

** As for financial corruption, living on government help in UK is evidence that Ishrat-ul-Ibad did not do any financial corruption.**

If he did, he did not needed little money from British government to survive. Well, if he was living on help, he must be living in UK modestly, as if he was living on government money, British govenment eyes would have been always on him. British government make sure that the way Ishrat-ul-Ibad must be living, he was not lying to the government that he has no money to even survive.

Pakistani corrupt ***** in UK are driving brand new cars worth 100 thousand pounds and own millions of pound property, spend and live like kings. But Ishrat-ul-Ibad must be living a poor life in UK if he was getting government help (as he was).

For most of Pakistani corrupts …, especially those that were minister during corrupt governments of past, few thousand pounds is something they can give in charity every day. They will not take one thousand pound a month to live from British government that have given them asylum, neither British government, that gives financial help after all enquiry of a person financial standing, would give help to the crooks that have corrupt money.

Ishrat-ul-Ibad got political asylum in UK and must have had no money neither British government allows people on political asylum to work while their cases is with government, and if that person cannot afford to live, government gives financial help, so Ishrat-ul-Ibad was not doing any crime rather it shows that while in power, he was financially honest.

Later when he became Governor, he went to Pakistan but his family was still in UK, and obviously Governor pay in Pakistan is not enough to support a family in UK, thus they taking financial help while in UK was also not wrong. Well, if it was wrong then Ishrat-ul-Ibad would not have been able to come to UK that he does quite often, as if that would have been the case, if he would have entered UK, British government would arrest him.

Note: Before taking political asylum in UK, Ishrat-ul-Ibad held many ministerial posts in Pakistan, including post as health minister. It is no joke that UK government if thinking that he has money would have given him money to survive.

Pakistani corrupt ministers belonging to PPP and other parties gather enough corruption money while in power that they would not need helps of petty money from governments that give them asylum to live nor British government is so stupid that they would give help to such people with money, as they financially help only needy after enquiry.

Well, PPP and Nawaz party office holders (rather most Pakistani corrupt ministers and even corrupt politicians in parliament, other then honest ones) have their own dwellings in UK and other western countries, come to UK and spend like kings, have bank accounts in UK and other western countries with huge money in them, and British government knows that (as they make all enquiries about a person before giving them financial help, that any British national would be able to tell).

Look at NS and BB, the leader of corrupts and murderers that are living in UK. If they would go to British government for help for their living, government would not only laugh on that but would deport them because of their dishonesty (as having money and asking for help from government to live is such dishonesty that if asylum seeker would do, they could easily get into trouble).

These mega corrupts are so poor that they do not have enough money to pay any taxes in Pakistan but have huge property investments and bulging bank accounts in UK. Even their chaily chamchay that live around these corrupt ****(cleaning their >..) gets more hard earned Pakistani money from these corrupt … then what Ishrat-ul-Ibad ever got from British government just to survive in UK (where a two bedroom flat cost over thousand pounds in rent).

Just imagine that these corrupt … of PPP, MPL and others spend many thousand pounds of stolen Pakistani money in UK while this honest person had no money that he needed help of thousand pound to survive in UK and then the choohays of these parties are calling him corrupt and murderer.

So, all this shows that Ishrat-ul-Ibad was neither financially corrupt nor murderer. The only one Pakistani politician that was murderer and should be called murderer was Abba Jaan of PPP, that was Z A Bhutto. Anyone that does not or would not call ZA Bhutto a murderer is actually can be charged of contempt of court (and legally, court can actually punish such person on charges of contempt of court).

[Note: I live in UK and have British nationality (along with Pakistani nationality) to know how British system works, so I am not B*ll ***ing. Any person from UK would be able to confirm what I wrote].

To say that Musharraf has appointed a murderer as governor of sindh is an allegation that if said in public, I believe that Ishrat-ul-Ibad and Musharraf, if they want to, could sue these people and court would be bound to punish them, as Ishrat-ul-Ibad is not convicted of murder in any court any where in the world.

Obviously, after death the ultimate judge (Allah) would also ask the reason for allegations that has to be provided with certainty and if not provided, would punish the culprits, unless they provide valid reason, like one can provide regarding Murderer Naseer-ullah Baber who accepted in interviews that he did get people killed out of court and thus he can be called murderer on his own conviction.

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

:nono: They would not be sued, come on Saleem, you should know better, under Musharraf they will simply disappear never to be heard of again. Musharrafism at its best.

What should I be doing ?
What should I be doing ?
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It's not a question of "neurons" in the instance when people are not familiar with the legislature. You, yourself, are hardly in a position to say other people have no neurons when you dont even know your own consitution allows the President of Pakistan to call an inquiry into the Cj's activities if he even suspects there is something wrong.

As for the Governor of Sindh, how is he a murderer exactly. He lives in a mansion which is Governor House, like all governors. That's not corruption or murder. If you have difficulty understanding what these two words mean, then look them up. The one thing I will accept is that the Governor of Sindh has seems to have been taking benefits from Britain. This seems to be opportunism and crookedness I would say, if he has been found guilty of it. Is it murder, definitely not, is it big corruption, no way. If he had taken millions of dollars or billions, then that would be political corruption, if he simply claimed $400 in benefits a week, this is not a big heist at all. Even so if he's guilty of the smallest amount of corruption he should go. Just as the Chief Justice must go if he is even guilty of the smallest amount of corruption. Read through it again, get a translator to press a loudspeaker against your ear, and on full blast, the reverberations might strike ...and this might register.

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

This is not era of Z A Bhutto that you say anything wrong (or right) of Bhutto that he did not liked and you get disapeared. Sometime thrown in deserted island in Arabian sea or get shot and killed.

Today, people are saying all sort of wrong and right in media about Musharraf openly and still we see them next day :slight_smile:

You should remember that Kasoori was from PPP whose only crime was that he did not agreed on some issues with Murderer Bhutto, and thus he was shot at and in process his father was killed. Bhutto got convicted on that murder and was hanged, but many murder by Bhutto went without going to court.

iftikhar
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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

There was time in Germany that SS of Hitler was creating havoc in Germany eliminating Hitler opponents. Then in the footstep of Hitler, Pakistani Hitler, that was Z A BHutto, started FSF to terrorises and create havoc in Pakistan eliminating Bhutto opponents.

Both murders very similar in all aspects. Both came to power through democracy even though in election they were in minority. Both considered themselves socialist party, making fool of workers. Bhutto party became second largest party in parliament (Mujib AL was the largest) but by hook or crook, he got into power. Hitler party did the same, being in minority got into power by blackmailing.

Note: Bhutto Pakistan Peoples Party wanted people to consider them socialist party. Hitler Nazi party was actually Germany worker’s party and wanted people to consider them socialist party.

Both in the end were party of murderers. At least Hitler was not convicted murderer but Bhutto was.

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Saleem sahib we should be looking forward and not back, or are you saying that because Bhutto did such and such thing so it is OK for Musharraf to do the same?

If your assertion is correct regarding Musharraf than maybe it was the aliens who might have abducted all these guys whose families are crying about their loved ones, or it could be that it is a figment of their imagination as under Musharraf no one has disappeared. Maybe the loved ones are in the house, their families just can't see them.

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LOl, we are talking about today's rulers, and this kid wants to talk about things that happened decades ago, when he probably wasn't even alive.

The attempts to distract from the Murder Quami Movement he support's is laughable.

The reason he support's Mush and the sacking of the CJ are now blantantly obvious

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

Well, here is the 25 points agenda that Hitler came with to make people fool. Read them and think what Bhutto told public of his agenda. Both exploited the masses and both were of same type.

Here is Hitler 25 points. Bhutto, I leave it as most know. Compare Bhutto propaganda and Hitlers. Read the one specially in RED.

The 25 Points of Hitler’s Nazi Party
1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.
**
2.** We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.
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3.** We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.
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4.** Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.
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5.** Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.

  1. The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.
    We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favor of the party without regard to character and fitness.
    **
    7.**** We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood.**** If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich. **
    **
    8.** Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.
    **
    9.**** All citizens must possess equal rights and duties. **
    **
    10.**** The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all. **
    **
    **
    Therefore we demand: **
    **
    11.    ** That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished. **
    **
    12.** Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
    **
    13.**** We demand the nationalization of all trusts. **
    **
    14.**** We demand profit-sharing in large industries. **
    **
    15.**** We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions. **
    **
    16.**** We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities. **
    **
    17.**** We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. **
    **
    18.**** We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race. **
    **
  2. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law. **
    **
    20.     In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State. **
    **
    21.**** The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young. **
    **
    22.**** We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army. **
    **
    23.**** We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberatepolitical lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand: **
    **
    (a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens. **
    **
    (b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language. **
    **
    (c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich. **
    **
    Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved. **
    **
    24.**** We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race. **
    **
    The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without*, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the pinciple:
    **
    **
    COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD **
    **
    25.    *** In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations. **
    **
    The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states. **
    **
    The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives. **
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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

saleem, can you please explain what has Bhutto got to do with the thread or are you just trying to derail the thread. If you want to discuss the "terrible" rule of Bhutto than open a seperate thread and please stick to the topic in hand here.

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If people disapeared, that is wrong. But regardless, the truth remains is that, these people disapeared did not disapear because of their not liking Musharraf but policy of the government.

As for people disapearing during Bhutto time, it was not because of government policy but opposition to the 'person of Bhutto' and his way of self centered government.

Difference is between using state to deal with personal matters (as in Bhutto case) and here it is to deal with state policy, that however one likes it or not is individuals matter, nevertheless, it is still state policy, that is to be with being partner of war against terrorism.

I do not know of case when a person was victimised by government because they said something against the person Musharraf.

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^ Bottom line is people are disappearing for whatever reason and when a judge admits a case relating to these disappearances, he is sacked. Wah. :clap:

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Well, actually people are bringing issues of appointment of governor and other issues regarding ministers, that is nothing to do with CJ suspension, or is it? I only answered that.

If you would have acted on that before, this post would not have apeared here :) As it would have been irrelevant. But when discussion with CJ dismissal is going on along with appointment of Sindh governor and other ministers in parliament, this post also becomes part of the discussion.

Don't you think so? :) I think that its good that it has, because it also gives insight to what really is happening in Pakistan.

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Appointment of governors is current, Bhutto is history, I fail to see the connection unless as I said before that you are trying to justify Musharraf's action by saying that If Bhutto can do it, which in your eyes was wrong, so Musharraf can do it as well and should not be criticised. If not maybe you can explain the comparison.

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Ehsan Bhai: I am not saying what you just wrote :) I am saying that Musharraf appointment of governor is not wrong as there is no crime conviction on governor.

As for disappearance also, that is nothing to do with Person of Musharraf or his own grievances with victim but it is to do with war against terrorism that is to do with state policy of fighting this war and interrogating those that could be involved.

How ever wrong and personally I do not agree that a person should disappear without trace as it is alleged to be happening in Pakistan, but one cannot blame that on Musharraf but one should blame that on the way Pakistan laws stand at the moment. Hopefully, that would change with time as education and respect of law comes in Pakistan.

At the moment, there is no respect of law in the country, rather many are openly breaking law of the country and breaking laws in getting involved in activities (like getting associated to terrorism or group involved in terrorism) that state has illegalised.

Even in UK, the champion of democracy, new law against terrorism means that state can make a person disappear for months without telling (though there is opposition to that, but law is getting enacted).

I am sure that if people in Pakistan would keep themselves within law, as we do in UK, they would not be worried of getting disapeared. However wrong and I do not condone that disapearance, but as the law of the country 'Pakistan' stands, one may not like it but have to follow, that not to get associated with activities that is causing this disapearance.

I am sure that you being in UK would follow British law and government policies, even if you do not like them and expect to get punished if you break that law or even policy related laws.

Same is true with Pakistan, that if a person does not like something still have to follow if that is the law of the country and even have to keep within law that is policy related, that a person does not like.

We should also remember that written laws of the land does not apply when it comes to policy related concerning security of the country and that is true anywhere in the world, that includes USA, UK or Europe. Even court judges know that none interferes when something happens in country that is linked with security policy of the country (CJ should have also known that).

And these people that are getting disappeared are going against the law (or policy) that is related to the security of the country (Pakistan), as that is to do with fight against terrorism that Pakistan government considers as part of Pakistan security.

It is nothing to do with security or person of Musharraf but to do with security of Pakistan, as Pakistan do not want to be on same boat as Iraq, Afghanistan or even Iran. Neither Pakistan wants to break relationship with USA from where most of Pakistani armaments and financial help are coming (that is not true of present time only but it is true since 1947).

If these retards want Pakistan to go to war against USA just because they want to, and would get involved in activities that could result into that, the result would be that they would get disappeared (however wrong and undesirable).

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Can anyone name people that have disappeared from pakistan on charges not related to terrorism?

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altaf...:D but he reappeared somewhere else
err and i guess carges were terrorism..

my bad, i take my example back