Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

Well, I was not interested in answering your question because I answered that amply number of time in my earlier posts that, suspension is part of enquiry. If President can initiate enquiry, suspension becomes automatic part of that enquiry. That means that when enquiry is allowed in constitution, suspenstion as part of enquiry is allowed in constitution automatically.

If constitution makers wanted that suspension should not be part of enquiry, they should have mentioned so that suspension could be excluded from enquiry process. But again, that would make enquiry law, a farce law, and would raise question on the mental level of those enacting the law.

Nevertheless, if enquiry is regarding a top post where people that is going to do enquiry are working under the person subject to enquiry, than that enquiry would have been farce without suspension of the concerned person (and if the law demands that, the law related to enquiry would have become a farce law).

We should remember that enquiry cannot be done by those that are of lower cadre to the person they are doing enquiry about, especially when they are working in the same department too, while that concerned person is not suspended.

So, when there is an article that says that a judge can be enquired, suspension of that judge would become automatic, unless the judge concerned is very junior, people doing enquiry are very senior to that judge and that CJ decides that judge may continue the duty while under enquiry (though that may be allowed but still not a good way of enquiry). It would be called bending the rule of enquiry by CJ regarding that junior judge. But this allowance cannot happen when judge concerned is the senior most (well, CJ himself).

If enquiry is regarding CJ, CJ should get suspended before enquiry.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Independent judiciary and democracy in the country! What a crape of joke. I think dictator’s brain has short circuited?

Farid

Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

^ hahahah this is just too funny! Guys read this post from Farid on the same topic a few weeks ago!!

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=4757161&postcount=6

Is ko kehtey hain PPP jiyala! Shabash

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

hmmmm baghaar e baingan khanay ka dil chah raha hai aaj.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

I think you are starting to realise the ill's of this govt.

Even I supported Mush initially, like the rest of Pakistan, full of hope

That evaporated quickly, esp after he let NS go free

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

Wrong again. The issue first has to go to the Council. Everything else comes afterwards. Constitutional experts of the country have already spoken. The CJ is not being given his due rights under the constitution by being locked up in his house and not being allowed to defend against the charges. Continuing to defend Musharraf's illegal actions reflects badly on your moral compass, nothing else.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Newspapers r full of analysis and pretty much every twist and angle to the story has been theorized abt.

So instead of postulating new theories, i'll just raise my hands in support of our deposed CJ. I've supported Mushy from '99 on most issues, but this is one step that damages Mushurraf's credibility in my eyes.

Simple question is this: When was CJ's son inducted to the Police force? Why was President sleeping when he was? Who, from the interior ministry to the National Police Academy put up with alleged illegal requests from CJ? If the CJ is going to be hanged for getting his son inducted into Police force, then I suppose all the Army, Bureaucracy and Executive must also be taken to task.

This is an amazingly stupid decision by Musharraf and one which I hope boomerangs on him and bites him in the ass. Justice Iftikhar was one of the only good thing Pakistan judiciary had going for it. And now he's suspended with hardly any chance of coming back. Its a sad day indeed.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

One problem I do have in all of this saga is this: WHY did CJ go to the Army House, in the first place? He should have just refused to go. Simple. Not just President, CJ should avoid contact with any member of the executive. I also saw him meeting Musharraf at his office on Golden Jubilee celebrations, which I thought was odd. If he survives this scandal, I sure hope he learns from it and never goes back to the Presidency or Prime Minister House, even if they beg him to come.

Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

خوشی کی بات یہ ہے کہ صدرِ مملکت کی کمانڈو سپرٹ روزِ اول کی طرح برقرار ہے۔ وہ آج بھی مدِ مقابل کو حیرت میں ڈالنے کی غیرمعمولی صلاحیت رکھتے ہیں اور کمانڈو کاروائی کے بنیادی اصولوں یعنی حریف کو شناخت کرو، تلاش کرو اور تباہ کردو کو کبھی نہیں بھولتے۔
کرگل، نواز شریف، سترہویں آئینی ترمیم، اکبر بگتی، جسٹس افتخار چوہدری۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔

مجھے اس بات سے خاصا حوصلہ ملا ہے کہ حکومت نے ایک عام شہری اور وکیل نعیم بخاری کے شکایت نامے پر ازخود سوؤ موٹو ایکشن لیا ہے۔ اسی کاروائی سے متاثر ہوکر آئندہ ایسے بحران کے سدِباب کے لیے دو تجاویز پیشِ خدمت ہیں۔

اولاً یہ کہ عدلیہ کو ڈسپلن میں لانے اور کرپشن سے پاک کرنے کے لیے اسی طرح ایماندار اور بااصول حاضر و ریٹائرڈ فوجی افسران کا ڈیپوٹیشن پر تقرر کیا جائے جس طرح سرکاری و نیم سرکاری اداروں، نوکر شاہی کے مختلف شعبوں یا قومی اہمیت کے نجی اداروں میں تقرر کیا گیا ہے۔ اس سلسلے میں توازن برقرار رکھنے کے لیے نیشنل سیکیورٹی کونسل کی تشکیل کے فارمولے سے بھی استفادہ کیا جاسکتا ہے۔ یعنی اعلی عدالتوں میں نصف جج سویلین اور بقیہ نصف فوجی پس منظر سے لیے جائیں۔
اگر یہ تجویز قابلِ عمل نہ ہوتو دوسری تجویز یہ ہے کہ عدالتی نظام کو میکنائزڈ اور کمپیوٹرائزڈ کردیا جائے۔
مارکیٹ میں ایسے کمپیوٹر بہت عرصے سے موجود ہیں جن میں اگر آپ اپنا نام اور تاریخ پیدائش فیڈ کریں تو وہ آپ کو فوراً قسمت کا حال، مستقبل اور شخصی خوبیاں اور خامیاں بتا دیتے ہیں۔
اسی اصول کی بنیاد پر کمپیوٹرائزڈ روبوٹس میں آئینِ پاکستان، دیوانی، فوجداری، فوجی اور شرعی قوانین فیڈ کیے جاسکتے ہیں۔مقدمے، پیٹیشن اور ریفرنس کے بارے میں فیصلے اور رائے جاننے کے لیے تین علیحدہ علیحدہ بٹن ہوں۔ایک جانب سے مسئلہ فیڈ کریں۔مطلوبہ جواب کے لیے بٹن اور پرنٹ کی کمانڈ دبا دیں۔ فوری اور سستا پرنٹڈ انصاف۔نہ چک چک نہ بک بک۔

ویسے بھی یہ سال پاکستان کی تاریخ کا بہت اہم سال ہے۔صدرِ مملکت کو ایک اور مدت کے لیے منتخب بھی ہونا ہے۔وردی کے بارے میں بھی سوچنا ہے۔عام انتخابات بھی کرانے ہیں۔دہشت گردی کے ملزموں سے بھی نمٹنا ہے اور نجکاری کے پروگرام کی بھی بلا رکاوٹ تکمیل ہونی ہے۔یہی وقت ہے کہ عدلیہ میں میکنائزڈ، کمپیوٹرائزڈ فیصلوں کی ٹیکنالوجی متعارف کروادی جائے۔ ورنہ انسانی جج کا بھلا کیا بھروسہ۔


Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

Sacked Pakistan chief justice refuses to resign, lawyers protest

Pakistan is in the throes of a ‘junta versus judiciary’ clash between President Pervez Musharraf and Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry after the latter, suspected to be under house arrest, refused to resign amidst nationwide protests by lawyers in his support.

Lawyers, media persons and even a sitting judge, Raja Fayyaz Ahmed, were turned away from Chaudhry’s residence, ‘politely, but firmly’, by the police and staff, local reports said.

Protests and rallies took place across the country as Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz tersely justified the president’s action of suspending Chaudhry and referring the charge of misuse of authority levelled against him before the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC).

Aziz declined to offer a direct comment saying the matter was sub judice. But Dawn quoted him as saying: ‘Every violator of the law of the land in any other field will face the same treatment.’

‘I will never resign voluntarily … I have done nothing wrong,’ Chaudhry told Supreme Court Bar Association (SCBA) President Munir A Malik, who called the chief justice over the telephone in front of reporters.

According to Malik, Chaudhry indicated his readiness to challenge the presidential reference against him.

In office since June 2005, Chaudhry has been accused of influencing the appointment of his son Arslan, a medico, into the police force even though he had failed in a qualifying examination.

However, the protesting lawyers and the media attributed the presidential action to Chaudhry’s judicial activism.

Lawyers said they would lay a siege when SJC meets on Tuesday. They questioned SJC’s impartiality saying two of the members were opposed to it.

Musharraf suspended Chaudhry after summoning him at his camp office in Rawalpindi and appointed Justice Javed Iqbal as Acting Chief Justice.

The senior most judge after Chaudhry, Rana Bhagwan Das, the first Hindu judge who has officiated more than once as the chief justice whenever Chaudhry was away, is on leave and abroad.

Criticising Musharraf’s presidential reference to the SJC, lawyers said that no complaint has ever been converted into a reference even though 27 complaints against sitting judges - one of them against a sitting chief justice of a high court - are pending before the SJC.

‘It would be fair to assume that many people will see this run of events with suspicion,’ The News said in an editorial.

Daily Times, quoting lawyers, said the president’s action was ‘political.’ It had come a day after Chaudhry, heading a Supreme Court bench, issued notices to the federal and the provincial governments to explain the disappearance of 199 persons allegedly been picked up by intelligence agencies for questioning and held at unknown locations without trial.

Reports said Chaudhry had taken a pro-active stand on the petition filed by Amina Masud Janjua, wife of one of the ‘missing’ persons, backed by the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP).

Chaudhry had last year made strong remarks while annulling the sale of Pakistan Steel Mill, a government-run industry.

Lawyers staged protest marches and passed resolutions criticizing Musharraf’s action. They alleged that the judge had been placed under house arrest and under the surveillance of the intelligence agencies.

Lawyers across Pakistan boycotted court proceedings protesting the sacking. There were demonstrations in the provincial capitals and resolutions were passed against the president’s decision that Chaudhry be tried by the SJC.

Lawyers in Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar and Quetta did not attend court proceedings, and representatives of bar associations said that protests would continue on Monday and Tuesday.

The Pakistan Bar Council’s (PBC) executive committee adoptede a resolution saying, ‘There will be a complete strike of lawyers on Monday, and all bar councils will observe Tuesday as a black day throughout the country.’ The SCBA endorsed the resolution.

Chaudhry’s nephew Amir Rana said Musharraf had asked his uncle to resign. Rana said the judge was being ‘victimised’ by the president for political reasons.

‘The chief justice of Pakistan has been disgraced. He is being pressured to resign, and his movement has been restricted,’ he said.

Rana said when Chaudhry was summoned to the Army House on Friday, Musharraf talked to him for almost four hours to reach a ‘compromise’ on the issue of ‘missing’ persons.

Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

Head I win, tail you lose [well, since I am doubtful of the level of people’s understanding and believe that some may not even understand this phrase, I better explain that :). It means that head I win and tail I win too (as phrase says, tail you lose, so that means, I win) :)]

Few days back, report regarding the wrongdoing of CJ and his son came on surface.

What happened?

This is what happened. A group started shouting that this CJ is a corrupt guy, how come he is on CJ post? All Musharraf men and Musharraf appointments are corrupt and CJ is one example. Musharraf would never act against CJ. Shouting was going on at a decibel beyond any reasoning. CJ is devil and so is his master ‘the President’, blah, blah and blah.

THEN a twist came. Unexpectedly, President actually acted against CJ. All who were shouting against CJ and President got a shock. They put a break on the abuses for CJ as he became Angel overnight for them. A person crooked for these people few days back became straight as lamp post. All the abuses going towards President at that time, on assumption that he will not act on the wrongdoings of CJ, changed too. Reverse gear was applied and now same President became target of different abuse. This time it is not for NOT taking action against CJ (as was before) but it is because, WHY President actually did took action against CJ :halo:.

Obviously linking action of President on CJ wrongdoings that these people were shouting about was not desirable. So, new hypothesis for action of President on CJ cropped up; that is Steel Mill privatisation, Basant, rulings on disappeared people, etc. Well, some pending issue also started coming up, that is future presidential election and so on.

I am sure that IF SJC finds CJ innocent and president reactivate the position of CJ and we see good relationship with President and CJ, same group will start shouting that, all what happened was drama and that CJ is a corrupt and very bad person. President does not deserve to be president because with all evidence against CJ, President let go CJ on public pressure, but as President he should not have taken public pressure and should have made CJ accountable, blah, blah, and blah.

Suppose SJC finds CJ guilty and recommends sacking of CJ, he would be replaced by new CJ. Believe me, in few days all will go quite regarding this issue. Same people would start trying to woe (or scorn) the new CJ and would change their attack on President on different issues, blah, blah and blah.

Well, we are all here. My post would be here too. So, let see what would happen :slight_smile: This is called ‘head I win and tail you lose’. But then, it is unfortunate that whatever these people win, it is only part of propaganda campaign, nothing else. Because, we are seeing commando action of President and thus coin is falling neither head or tail :slight_smile:

Nevertheless, all this futile discussion is really futile as those that would like to win, tail or head would keep shouting blah, blah, and blah :slight_smile: Thus, it is best to keep quite and let people shout :smiley:

Kuch tou loog Kahayn gay, logoon ka kaam hay kahnaa
Choro baikaar kee batoyon may ulajh na jayain hum na :hoonh:

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Musharraf's actions were illegal, all the rest is just political bakwas. Unless Musharraf is shown the door now, this incident will only further degrade our democratic institutions which are already on life support. Rest of your twists and turns will make for a good bedtime story I'm sure.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Lol, too true Sa1eem. It's just anti Musharraf agendas or ignorance (in abundance here) that dont seem to understand

  • Musharraf has only suspended CJ pending an investigation into the allegations
  • Musharraf has the constitutional power to suspend the Chief Justice *]There's such a thing as democratic elections in Pakistan, through which governors, some crooked are elected, and the only people that can do something about this are the people who should not vote for them.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Tsk tsk tsk, nobody seems to understand us poor misunderstood army wallahs. Not the masses, not the media, not the lawyers, not the judges, not the experts, no one. Maybe Uncle Sam will still understand us (notice their silence yet?).

P.S. In which Pakistan are governors elected? I must be living in the wrong Pakistan.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

^ As long as Altaf bhaiya understands us, we are ok...

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Spock bhai

Do you realize that there are many many ordinary Pakistanis who are not MWM, Nawaz Sharif or Benazir supporters but feel that this move by Musharraf was wrong? Even my relatives in the army feel that Musharraf did a bad thing by summoning a sitting CJ to his army camp and questioned him while wearing the uniform. Constitution only allows a President to refer to SJC and not remove or suspend the CJ. Military officers under probe are never suspended.

This is not an issue of Musharraf supporters vs. haters.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Mayor, not governor. The point i'm making is still the same. Musharaf cannot remove these people constitutionally or suspend them. He can remove the CJ though.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Consider the two allegations"

. Are the allegations against CJ serious enough to deserve such an extreme step?
. What about allegations against Musharraf and agencies regarding "disappearances" of many people, and CJ's insistence to give information about those people?

WHAT IS MORE SERIOUS ALLEGATION?

Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended (Merged)

http://dawn.com/2007/03/11/welcome.htm

Non-functional Chief Justice demands open trial ISLAMABAD, Mar 11 (APP) - Non-functional Chief Justice of Pakistan, Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry has demanded an open trial on the reference filed against him by the President General Pervez Musharraf. During a meeting with Tehreek-e-Istaqlal Chairman Air Marshal (retd) Asghar Khan on Sunday Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry expressed his desire for an open trial. When contacted Air Marshal (retd) confirmed this demand by the non-functional Chief Justice. “The non-functional Chief Justice has demanded to hold an open trial on the reference,” he told APP on phone.

Well, I hope at least this demand from him can be met. This is just fair. This will show whether those allegations really were true.

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

** Roodrunner:** You are so right, but its not fault of these people. Actually, they think that enquiry means declared guilty and suspension means sacking :). You know what?

Post of chief justice is very important. Honesty, integrity, and respect of the post should be above personalities. No post in the country deserves a clean, straight, bold, and very honest person as much as post of Chief Justice. If allegation is made on chief justice, it is very important that an enquiry is set up to clear chief justice and obviously, while enquiry is going on, chief justice should be suspended.

Let the truth come out from enquiry in most transparent way and that transparency cannot be achieved without chief justice getting suspended so that enquiry happens without influence. I think that only dishonest person would want or support no enquiry (or enquiry without suspension) even when allegation is made.

To me, enquiry without suspension and having no enquiry at all is same, as results in both cases would normally going to be same, whatever the truth.

If I was straight and honest chief Justice and those allegations were made against me, that I believed I was not guilty of, I would have gone to President myself and would have asked him to suspend me and send the allegation for enquiry.

The reason being that as honest chief justice I would liked to have honest reputation and that is how I could make judiciary clean. If enquiry would have happened with me suspended, no one would raise any finger on me after that and then I can do my job with clear conscious and would have cleaned the judiciary as well.

If I was corrupt, I would have tried all my best to avoid enquiry and if President would have told me that he would like an enquiry over the allegation, I would have begged the president not to get it done and still if he wants that, then at least do not suspend me. Then I would have made sure how anyone could have prepared a correct but adverse enquiry report over me. If anyone would have tried, I would have given him a good lesson.

The reason of being suspended while under enquiry is that, later if result of enquiry is good, no one can say that enquiry was a farce and CJ influenced the enquiry. But if result of enquiry is bad, it means that I was really guilty of whatever allegations against me.