Pakistan's taxing, federation, equality (split from A critical look at the economy)

Shame on you for spreading these MQM lies on this forum…{EDITed by Captain1}

http://www.fbr.gov.pk/FRS/2007/May12-2007.pdf

Study this cbr quarterly report carefully…on page 8 of this report you will find total break up of federal revenue collection…which shows clearly out of 835 billion total revenue of the federal government the contribution of direct tax is 264.8 billion rupees (FY 06/07), and according to the report cbr themselves are admitting that these so called direct taxes are also infact mostly indirect taxes deducted at source on import/export/supplies etc, or are collected as turnover taxes…for example when you export something you pay 1% income tax at the time of export…

Which means that federal government is relying on indirect taxes for their revenues to an extent of more than 85%… means actually these taxes are paid by consumers …from all over the country…to give you an example if an upcountry consumer imports a car and pays import duty, sales tax, income tax in Karachi at the time of clearance from the custom…these taxes paid in Karachi but actually contributed by an upcountry consumer…and not contributed by any resident of Karachi…

In plain language it means the taxes are paid in Karachi are actually deposited in national treasury by Karachi traders and nationwide traders which are actually paid by consumers from all over the country and are not only contributed as you are suggesting by Karachi residents…

In order to understand this concept of direct and indirect taxation you need to go to a decent college, but judging from your english comprehension skills from your postings it’s obvious that you haven’t been to a decent school let alone a decent college…

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Good post. That's where the so called 70% is generated.

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Only the salaried people are paying 100% tax - being deducted at source. Even multinationals are evading tax by exhorbitant transfer pricing.

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Cotton has been the major contributor for Pakistan's economy over the history of Pakistan and everyone knows where this cotton is produced.

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

I do agree with you that salaried class group are by far the most honest tax payers in the country....and compared to their income they are by far the most burdened group of people in Pakistan...as far as tax payments are concerned...

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

THANK YOU....."O'ORACLE OF FINANCIAL WISDOM....SHORT-CUT AZIZ"


I thought..that;
Inflation is one form of taxation that can be imposed without legislation...!
CitiBanker Aziz...has followed that religiously!

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

And who claimed to generate the amount of tax (70% or whatever) by Karachi's own sales/exports? I think the claim was mainly about the tax money contribution to the national exchequer (being the only sea-port) whether it was generated thru buying or selling of someone upcountry.

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

very bad example.the upcountry person if pays customs and taxes for using the karachi seport services then that simply means another its karchi’s money which it earned from the upcountry consumer for using its services.so karachi’s treasury has full rights over that money.wat if a karachite is travelling through punjab say that the toll punjab govt recieves from him is his money and its karachi’s contribution to punjab’s treasury.

say in future IPI fuctify and pakistan will earn billipn dollors in transit fees then also ull say that its indias money not pakistan.pakistan has no right over transint fee and india is contributing it to pak.infact india is paying for using pak land to transfer gas.

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

I am really surprised how you MQM guys call yourselves educated. Ignoring your English comprehension skills as well, which clearly show the kind of school you have attended....you don't know the difference between federal taxes namely income tax, sales tax, excise duties, and custom duties and port handling/transit charges...only a genius like you can suggest these federal taxes should be retained as port/transit charges...sincere advice...if you have no knowledge of the subject don't jump in to discussion....you are like Saleem just exposing your extremely low IQ level....

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Sales taxes, excise taxes don't go to the federal government in any other country.

You lose credibility when you yourself are biased! If it isn't for allah, pakistan would surely have disintegrated by now! Feudals in sindh and punjab [as well as FATA tribals] need to pay taxes as the free ride on karachi will be over either peacefully or violently [like most things in Pakistan].

PS Btw, there are dry ports in Punjab so karachi doesn't earn its major share from just port taxes.... I raised this fact before but none of the do gooders on this site admitted it EVER!

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

I agree, sales tax usually goes to State/Province, not to "Federal".

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Prove there is a free ride on Karachi...only in USA and Canada sales tax is state charge, again it's never charged as port handling charges...in france, germany, Italy etc this is a federal charge...In India sales tax is a federal tax...it depends on the laws being followed by a certain country...Personally I don't have any objection on sales tax being a provincial tax...we will just have to control inter provincial movement of goods and I think as far as Punjab is concerned we will be major gainers in the process...

As far as your accusation on me being biased...I request you to read first the cbr report...I have already posted the link....you will realise the federal government's dependency on indirect taxes...in other words consumption tax...if I am a consumer in Punjab obviously I would like my tax to be paid/benefit Punjab. (my own community and that's my right)...as indirect taxes are directly proportional to GDP ratio of a certain area...it's true Karachi GDP ratio is greater than their population ratio(about 18 percent) but when you consider whole Sind the GDP contribution is less than population percentage...

Personally I have no objection if Sind government decides in future to put exhorbitant transit charges for port usage...in that case Punjab has full right also to negotiate transit facilities with India and whichever option will be cheaper we can always use it...but mind you we can also charge exhorbitant charges to provide transit facility to Sind water....and implement any kind of water projects on punjab's share of water without caring about Sind consent...

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Sheirk saheb as you are a very fair person who is advocating about putting an end to having a free ride on Karachi...I hope you will also advocate vice versa...when such a level of provincial autonomy is achieved...you will advocate Punjab restricting market access to Karachi base companies just like it happens in USA and Canada....it means a company who will pay their taxes in Sind will not be allowed to freely operate in Punjab...example a Karachi based bank will have very limited access in Punjab...a Karachi based mobile company will not be allowed to operate in Punjab...in other words a market access for 90 million strong market will not come free for you...no free ride over Punjab...let's all be fair...

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Idon't think you understand very well how sales tax or a value added tax functions...

If a Detriot manufactured car is sold in California, the tax goes to Californian state government and Michigan state government makes a refund...similarly if french wine is sold in a German supermarket the tax goes to German government and French government makes a refund...
Similrly New York port can not charge sales tax on goods intended to be sold in Michigan...

Believe me if you understand the practical working of indirect taxation you will realise Punjab will be the biggest winner being the largest consumer market with highest GDP share...

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

^ Yes, you are right that Punjab is the biggest indirect winner whether it decides to pay its due taxes in the future or if it doesn’t as heck, Pakistan can go to hell, right? :slight_smile:

You still haven’t grasped after so many years that something must be wrong that the most patriotic pakistanis who made one of the highest contributions to Pakistan aka bengalis decided to leave Pakistan on political issues. You can’t even blame some bhugti or masud was keeping them hostage because unlike these figures, bengalis elected their leaders who made such demands.

PS So, you are telling me that since the car is going to Michigan, New York doesn’t charge any tax at all??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

The only interstate commerce that I know doesn’t get taxed like if you are in NY but you buy something in Cali is online retail!

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Yazdi: I do not know why you are putting so much strain {EDITed by Captain1}

{EDIT}

You should feel ashamed of yourself and your mission of spreading blatant lies and not accepting the truth. You should know the truth that if Karachi get sneeze, than all development works in Pakistan stops.

I know that your ignorance is so deep that you would never change, that is why I stopped even caring to answer you, but your ignorance did not stopped there, as it has no limit. :)

You asked me to show from any other source than MQM that Karachi pays 70 percent of National revenue, and I showed you the statement of CBR chairman (who should know more than anyone in Pakistan, especially you) but your ignorance stopped you even accepting his words.

Aaab aap ka kiya kiya alaaj hay, except hospitalization? :p

Anyhow, here is accumulative figures of federal tax collections between 1997-2000, and how that get distributed:

Total taxes paid in 3 years (1997-2000):
Sindh = Rs 530 billion
Punjab = Rs 201 billion
NWFP = Rs 60.5 billion
Balochistan = Rs 23.2 billion

Total = Rs 814.7 billions during those 3 years.

[Today, Pakistan revenue in one year is more than 3 years of corrupt and choor period, because today we have honest man in power, not corrupt and choor NS. Sindh share during those years was 65 percent, that today (as CBR chairman mentioned) has increased to 70 percent, because people in Sindh are hard working and not lazy and choor :)]

Now how this collected revenue was distributed over those 3 years (through NFC award)?
Sindh = Rs 77.38 billion (14.5 percent of contribution).
Punjab = Rs 187 billion ((92,9 percent of contribution).
NWFP = Rs 49.5 billion (81 percent of contribution).
Balochistan = Rs 17.1 billion (73 percent of contribution).

Total re-distributed to provinces = Rs 331 billion

So, what each province contributed to Federation during those 3 years?
Sindh = Rs 452.62 billion (93.57 percent).
Punjab = Rs 14 billion ((2.89 percent of contribution).
NWFP = Rs 11 billion (2.27 percent of contribution).
Balochistan = Rs 6.1 billion (1.26 percent of contribution).

Total = Rs 483.7 billion (between 1997-2000).

This tax is not just custom duties, but it is from all type of taxes.

Sindh contributed 67.75 percent of 'Direct Taxes' and 68.32 percent of 'Indirect Taxes' to Federation collection of taxes from provinces during 1997-2000.

Sindh's share in different sectors of direct taxes:
Income Tax = 86.40 percent of total income tax collection
Wealth Tax = 63.21 percent
Capital gain Tax = 32.6 percent
Workers Welfare Fund = 45.53 percent

Sindh's share in different sectors of indirect taxes:
Customs = 83.75 percent of total income tax collection
Sales Tax = 62.10 percent
Federal Excise duty = 39.40 percent

[Now 86.4 percent of income tax tells a lot about tax culture in Sindh. As for customs duty, most goods destined for other provinces pay their taxes in that province, not in Karachi]

Today, situation is that contribution of Sindh has increased in proportion (now it is around 70 percent), and as ratio of NFC award has increased, I would not be surprised if Punjab, NWFP and Balochistan are getting more than they contribute to Federation whereas only Sindh is paying for federation as well as part of contribution to other provinces.

Unfortunately, Sindh is asking the federation to take into account revenue generation in NFC re-distribution equation, but Punjab and NWFP keep opposing that.

So, Pakistan got Rs 483.7 billion to run the country during 1997-2000, around 94 percent was paid by Sindh. From this money, government not only develop Pakistan infrastructure, but pay for armed forces and give extra grants to provinces if required.

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

*Yazdi and Sa1eem: Please don't tell us what you think of each other, no name-calling! *


Please refrain from provincial insults, and Yazdi: everyone defending "Sindh" claim are not "MQM walas"!

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Captain saheb...will you give warning to Saleem also as he is giving figures without quoting any source...misleading people here...clear violation of forum rules and regulations...

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

Obviously you do not understand the difference between revenue ** collection** and revenue contribution....and continue to take revenue collection as revenue contribution...

Ofcourse Punjab opposes this kind of distribution as the case of Sindh is based on flawed logic of revenue collection and not contribution...

We already know from CBR records that 85% of the revenue collection of federal government comes from indirect taxation....and irrespective of where these taxes are collected....they are contributed by consumers....only GDP percentage figures represent true percentage of consumption patterns....Punjab contributing 62% of GDP contributes these taxes to the same extent....no matter where they are collected...

Re: A critical look at the Pak economy

That’s exactly right…New York state can not charge sales tax on goods destined for Michigan…the only charges they are entitled to are the port handling charges…If the car is imported through New York port even if initially charge sales tax on that car…eventually when the car will be sold in Michigan the tax will be charged by the Michigan state government and refunded by New York state government…sales tax being a state tax in USA…