re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
If we were struggling, I would welcome Whatmore, but at the moment his appointment might upset the apple cart
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
Not too sure about it, but i think if captan and coach are getting along well, then its perhaps better to retain Mohsin. Also am not too sure about how much coaches add in cricket.
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
You can have Whatmore and we will throw in Fisher and his huge salary. Can we have Mohsin please?
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
"Success has many fathers, while failure is an orphan."
Current view is that Mohsin Khan has delivered. Just for a moment assume, had Pakistan lost this second test? What would have been the comments and reviews about our Batting, and Mohsin Khan as a Coach ?
I am sure quite different. As for the success, as in most of the cases it has been due to individual brilliance, and more specifically of bowling than collective team work. Pakistan has been acknowledged by all as the undisputed home of outrageous talent. More so in bowling than batting. Today it was an exceptional day. Abdul Rahman with his best figures. Most of our wins have been exceptional individual performances.
So does that mean I am saying Watmore should be hired in place of Mohsin Khan ?
No, not at all. Specifically if winning alone is the bench mark to judge the ability of a coach. rather I have a totally different take on coaching a Pakistan National Side. I think coaching or a coach doesn't have much influence upon the Pakistan side because the players don't come from a culture of coaching [Now perhaps that is changing]
Hence its difficult to adapt to listening, adopting and accepting to someone for these individuals. In addition being strong individuals and having achieved by making to the level they have, takes a lot of determination and doggedness. This works for us that it makes them brilliant match winners who turn matches single handed and negative that they are difficult to bend and mold in to a "team". So basically a coach doesn't matter in he case of Pakistan.
Bob Woolmer was a very good coach but that did not reflect in the results. Its because I do not think the players got out of him what they could and then implemented it. On a junior level a coach could explain and demonstrate the technique or high light a technical flaw and weakness and then a remedy for it but it is up to the player to then work on it. In cricket a coach cannot diagnose and then prescribe a medicine for the flaw. Rather the cure of the diagnoses would have to be extended hours of hard work at the nets and practice sessions and that is more responsibility of the individual than the coach. Yes a coach can certainly motivate, organize, plan and facilitate but he cant wear the gear or take the bowl and bat or bowl in the nets to over come the flaw? Or he could plan and set a strategy but it would need the players to follow the plan. A poor plan if followed can be success, more so than than the best plan but with out execution.
Though one should still have hope and that is why I feel they should have Dav Watmore? Why because I expect Watmore to be more professional and scientific and methodological in his approach. Exposed and familiar with the latest scientific and coaching advancements and philosophy. Bringing in new models and new approach to the training and coaching.
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
You can have Whatmore and we will throw in Fisher and his huge salary. Can we have Mohsin please?
as thet say "ghar ki murghi - daal barabar"
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
^ I never understood that phrase till now!! Nice.
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
PCB should definetly keep Mohsin Khan as the coach of Pakistan cricket team!
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
Mohsin Hasan Khan has nothing to do with the team's performance
But Still I Would Prefer Him Over Whatmore
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
mohsin has nothing to do with these victories...what are his credentials? no extensive international experience...absolutely zero coaching experince... middle 12 years were spent in Bollywood and then in lollywood, so no involvement with local cricket as well...lets not kid ourselves...if anything, credit goes to waqar and of course misbah. the reason we are winning is because waqar and misbah showed absolute zero tolerance towards superstar culture...so bring whatmore, as he will will enhance this team-based culture even more plus he will always select the team on merit... so lets not get emotional....just ask yourself, if we have to play next 8 test matches in australia and south africa....who do you want your coach? mohsin with zero experience of those alien conditions, culture, strategy, mindset and modern cricket or Whatmore? chocie is yours to make....
Re: Pakistan’s new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
IMO, If players are not happy as I’ve listened some thing about this then no need to bring him :cobra:
Re: Pakistan’s new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
U mean u heard something about them not being happy with Whatmore in prospect ?
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
mohsin has nothing to do with these victories...what are his credentials? no extensive international experience...absolutely zero coaching experince... middle 12 years were spent in Bollywood and then in lollywood, so no involvement with local cricket as well...lets not kid ourselves...if anything, credit goes to waqar and of course misbah. the reason we are winning is because waqar and misbah showed absolute zero tolerance towards superstar culture...so bring whatmore, as he will will enhance this team-based culture even more plus he will always select the team on merit... so lets not get emotional....just ask yourself, if we have to play next 8 test matches in australia and south africa....who do you want your coach? mohsin with zero experience of those alien conditions, culture, strategy, mindset and modern cricket or Whatmore? chocie is yours to make....
Agreed
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
mohsin has nothing to do with these victories...what are his credentials? no extensive international experience...absolutely zero coaching experince... middle 12 years were spent in Bollywood and then in lollywood, so no involvement with local cricket as well...lets not kid ourselves...if anything, credit goes to waqar and of course misbah. the reason we are winning is because waqar and misbah showed absolute zero tolerance towards superstar culture...so bring whatmore, as he will will enhance this team-based culture even more plus he will always select the team on merit... so lets not get emotional....just ask yourself, if we have to play next 8 test matches in australia and south africa....who do you want your coach? mohsin with zero experience of those alien conditions, culture, strategy, mindset and modern cricket or Whatmore? chocie is yours to make....
Don't diasgree with you PD but let me make a few points.
I also give Waqar and Misbah real credit for the upsurge in team's performance (post #11) but Mohsin also deserves some credit for continuing the good work he had inherited from Waqar. Moreover there seems to be good chemistry between him and the players and more importantly also between him and Misbah. You see it in the post match celebrations and hugs etc.
An ex-international cricketer does not have zero experience of alien conditions!!
I think the role of a 'qualified' coach is over-rated in cricket. Someone like Mohsin Khan who has played the game at the highest level should automatically know something about coaching i.e. a successful test batsman should be able to give good batting tips atleast. same applies to a bowler. However I do appreciate that coaching is more than just about batting, bowling or fielding. The mental aspect of the game and team strategy etc. are equally important areas
Just as successful test players don't necessarily make good coaches, in the same way 'qualified' coaches don't always make successful ones. Prime examples being Fletcher and Woolmer.
Fletcher had some success with England but he has proved to be a total disaster as india's coach losing 8 away tests in a row (and in series that really mattered)!!
I know people don't like to hear or admit this but Pakistan's record under Bob Woolmer was anything but satisfactory:
- got whitewashed 3-0 in Australia in 2004/5
- lost 3-0 in England in 2006 (though it should have been 2-1; Pak would have won the Oval Test but for Hair's bias and Inzi's goof-up)
- 1st round exit in 2007 world cup
Hence there is no guarantee that the team will continue to improve or deliver results under Whatmore
So for the sake of team harmony and unity, I w'd say stick with Mohsin for now (though I am not too rigid about it!!!)
Re: Pakistan’s new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
Well that ends speculation..
**Coaches’ committee has recommended Whatmore’s name: Zaheer Abbas
**Former Pakistan captain Zaheer Abbas, a member of the PCB coaches’ committee, on Monday admitted that they have recommended Dav Whatmore’s name for the post of chief coach.
The PCB and the coaches’ committee until now had declined to confirm that only the name of Whatmore was recommended for the job insisting that there were other candidates as well in the running for the top post.
But **Zaheer confirmed on a television channel that the Intikhab Alam-led committee recommended the name of Whatmore to PCB chairman, Zaka Ashraf.
It has been learnt that the former coach of the World Cup winning Sri Lankan team would be back on February 20 to sign the contract on dotted lines.
**Mohsin Khan has been the interim coach for three consecutive series against Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and England, which Pakistan have won. There is a feeling in the cricket fraternity that Mohsin should be given a longer tenure.
“This is a decision (appointment of a foreign coach) that was taken at the time Pakistan cricket was faced with the spot-fixing trial. It was felt that we needed a foreign coach with a sound background to introduce a new cricket culture in the team,” Zaheer justified committee’s decision to recommend Whatmore’s name adding, “Whatmore led the Sri Lankan team to the 1996 World Cup victory and we believe he can realise the full potential of this Pakistan team.”
**Zaheer said while Mohsin had done a commendable job and needed to be appreciated but Pakistan needed to raise its standards to levels where they can go and win in every country.
“Pakistan have done brilliantly to beat England which is a top side in the ongoing Test series. But I think, we also need to look ahead and plan for the future,”** Zaheer added.
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
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Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
Don't diasgree with you PD but let me make a few points.
I also give Waqar and Misbah real credit for the upsurge in team's performance (post #11) but Mohsin also deserves some credit for continuing the good work he had inherited from Waqar. Moreover there seems to be good chemistry between him and the players and more importantly also between him and Misbah. You see it in the post match celebrations and hugs etc.
An ex-international cricketer does not have zero experience of alien conditions!!
I think the role of a 'qualified' coach is over-rated in cricket. Someone like Mohsin Khan who has played the game at the highest level should automatically know something about coaching i.e. a successful test batsman should be able to give good batting tips atleast. same applies to a bowler. However I do appreciate that coaching is more than just about batting, bowling or fielding. The mental aspect of the game and team strategy etc. are equally important areas
Just as successful test players don't necessarily make good coaches, in the same way 'qualified' coaches don't always make successful ones. Prime examples being Fletcher and Woolmer.
Fletcher had some success with England but he has proved to be a total disaster as india's coach losing 8 away tests in a row (and in series that really mattered)!!
I know people don't like to hear or admit this but Pakistan's record under Bob Woolmer was anything but satisfactory: - got whitewashed 3-0 in Australia in 2004/5 - lost 3-0 in England in 2006 (though it should have been 2-1; Pak would have won the Oval Test but for Hair's bias and Inzi's goof-up) - 1st round exit in 2007 world cup
Hence there is no guarantee that the team will continue to improve or deliver results under Whatmore
So for the sake of team harmony and unity, I say stick with Mohsin for now (though I am not too rigid about it!!!)
GA I never said that a coach needs to be an excellent international player...absolutely not..most successful coaches have very little international experience but what they do have is a proper coaching resume: coaching courses, certifications and more importantly coaching experience of state teams and then gradual transition to international coaching. I mean pick any successful coach of recent times and you will see what i am saying. Plus by virtue of coaching international teams, those coaches bring a lot of "synergies" in terms of "know how" of opponents' strataegies...
Now if someone does not have any coaching credentials whatsoever, then he shd have extensive international experience of playing in different conditions and situations and by extensive I mean "extensive'...and ideally in recent times..apply this criteria and help me understand where mohsin fits in... he played his cricket 30 years ago, played only 40 odd test matches in which he averaged 37 (and 26 in 75 ODIs) ...
and forget the batting average as it is not imp for a coaching term but more importantly moshin never captained a Pakistani team, so no strategic leadership experience whatsoever... players like miandad/gary kirtsen/ganguly/waqar can be qualified as coaches w/o a coaching resume because they have played over 100 test matches in recent times (javed was playing till 1996) plus they were known to have strategic mindset in their playing days with leadership experience by making decisions in the filed ...
plus as i said in my previous post, mohsin spent 15 years of his middle career in movies and unlike mudassar, inthikab alam and many other players, he had no involvement with local Pakistani cricket or the national academy at all....yes Mohsin enjoys good relationship with misbah which is important but not critical.
As far as woolmer's record is concerned, lets not kid ourselves..send this same Pakistani team to Australia and then to England with mohsin its coach and then see the record. plz dont call me pessimistic but you know very well the odds of this team winning in Aus, south africa or england. mohsin will be completely exposed as a coach as well. In those conditions, you need someone like whatmore who has more local experience of those conditions.
and yes I agree that coach's role has been over-pronounced in recent times but even if it contributes 10%, it is worth to make the best possible choice as coach's role is always incremental both upwards or downward...just my 2 cents!
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
Simple rule. If it aint broken don't fix it. But regionalism will triumph in Pakistan cricket.
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
I agree. They are trying to fix something thats working just fine. Mohsin personally may not have had a huge hand in Pakistan's recent victories, but the point is, this is a good mix, and its been working fine so far. Its the combination that counts, not individual (so-called) high-achievers.
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
mohsin has nothing to do with these victories...what are his credentials? no extensive international experience...absolutely zero coaching experince... middle 12 years were spent in Bollywood and then in lollywood, so no involvement with local cricket as well...lets not kid ourselves...if anything, credit goes to waqar and of course misbah. the reason we are winning is because waqar and misbah showed absolute zero tolerance towards superstar culture...so bring whatmore, as he will will enhance this team-based culture even more plus he will always select the team on merit... so lets not get emotional....just ask yourself, if we have to play next 8 test matches in australia and south africa....who do you want your coach? mohsin with zero experience of those alien conditions, culture, strategy, mindset and modern cricket or Whatmore? chocie is yours to make....
I agree with your points but I also think Mohsin can be (or most likely already is) a great help to our batsmen. More often than not, we lose matches because batsmen falter. Bowling unit always deliver. So Mohsin can help and should be involved in the mix as a batting consultant even if Whatmore is brought.
Re: Pakistan's new full time coach - Dav Whatmore or Mohsin Khan?
And I also am a firm believer in the phrase 'Dont fix what ain't broken'