Pakistan's Military

Society Military and Strategic Issues
21

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by 5Abi: *
On the day of Sept 6 2003, we should pay homage to those that gave their lives so we can all gather here on GS and call outselves Pakistani even tho we are far far away, sitting comfortably in our living rooms and contemplating on the *over blown threat from India and why so much is spent on Pakistan's defence needs. We should also show some respect to those that served in various wars and are still alive.

[/QUOTE]

Well I've raised this issue a few times before that this is precisely what we don't do. Not on a personal level anyway. The American film which was dedicated to their failed mission in Somalia, I wonder how many people know that the confrontation was initially sparked by the death of some 30 Pakistani soldiers serving under the flag of the UN? I' can bet nobody here will know a single name of any of those who died.

The only time I've come close to seeing anyone come near to paying a meaningful tribute was that thread that was posted here by the widow of an airforce pilot. I never hear or read too much in the Pakistani media.

22

Mr Xtreme bro I didnt intend to flame you or anyone else. My reply was a general reply to this thread.
I think i missed that thread by that widow of air force pilot you mentioned. Can you point out? Paste the link or something?

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It's ok, I didn't take it as a flame, Im just pointing out something which has bothered me for some time now and which is relative to your post.

I'll try and post a link to the thread later if I can dig it out, it was posted in this Forum, can't remember who by though. Brilliant read but very long though.

24

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by EntityParadigm: *
peechay ager koi mere to mere. yeh to mehfooz rahein ge na :~)
[/QUOTE]

peechay sirf mai aur tou reh jayen gay, baqi sub starbucks mai beth ker coffee peay gain, aur gupshup pey aa ke kahein gaye "afsoos bauhaut bura howa"

25

I love reading the sher-o-shairi at the back of Bedford trucks. How many of you have seen the one with Ayub Khan's picture and the caption "Teri yaad aa-ee teray janay kay baad".

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^^PARCO launched two books of truck poetry…I will get it as soon as I reach Pakistan…:k:

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The military is needed to fight evil Indians. Down with India. Down with Indians (except 2bornot2b, he's a nice Indian).

28

now that we have the noocular deterrant why can't we scale down conventional war power.. afterall we are no match for India in that department anyway and in a matter of minutes would have to rely on the noocular deterrant to keep India away..

and seriously do you think India with their booming economy and high international investment would be foolish enough to indulge in a war?? They still have a democracy and their corporations will pressure their government against taking such a stoopid step..

Besides. what will INdia do with 15mil more Muslims??? be real for once instead of buying into the ISI propaganda..

edit: make that 150 mil?? geez pakistanis procreate fast.

29

if pakis were a bit more intelligent and instead of fighting with each other over and over again about political matters, had put more emphasis on development, technology, economy, health care, then pakistan would have been a much better place to live in. Fact remains, that at this particular moment, apart from the elite top-level, living in Pakistan is without any bright prospect, insecure with respect to future etc.

very fitting in this respect is that pakistani history is like 'an endless repitition of the wrong way of living'

i've tried hard to be a bit more optimistic, but i can't make it better than this...

30

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by robby: *
....
Another thing if you try to insure a house without locks or windows u will find out no insurence compnay would be willing to do so, so how do you think investers,and companies would invest there capital in an insecure country????????.....
[/QUOTE]

why don't you go around your neighborhood and talk to neighbors in a friendly way, create healthy atmosphere instead of holding a gun and roam in neighborhood? Guns and Locks are not the solution to security!

31

This discussion has nothing to do with Defense Day. 1965 was a long time ago.

A joke arises from the supposed Indian threat. The chance of a war in South Asia is almost non existent. Both India and Pakistan have nukes, and are not stupid enough to create a situation where they could be used.

Let’s say a war does occur. You think Pakistan can put up a fight with India? India has the ability to massacre us and take out the other "tan"s. This doesn’t even touch on the economic perspective. India has a booming economy. To fight would launch them into a deep hole. It is not in India's interest to initiate a war.

The military scares the Pakistani public by routinely telling Pakistanis life is not safe. It is in their best interest to do so. A scared population will demand new artillery, the military will buy the artillery, and will pocket a few millions for to provide every senior member a house, and new corolla or civic. The moment Pakistan's army says life in south asia is safe, would mean the end for living as royalty. The military is corrupt. It's not something new.

32

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *

why don't you go around your neighborhood and talk to neighbors in a friendly way, create healthy atmosphere instead of holding a gun and roam in neighborhood? Guns and Locks are not the solution to security!
[/QUOTE]

very easy to say, very hard to achieve. Changez_like bro say u someone has made a habbit of tresspassing and destroying your property and further tries to hurt you, what will you do at that moment???? welcome him to loot u, and beat you up??? i think logically you will defend your self and next time you will be prepared incase it happens again.

One more thing if you look at hadiyah of the prophet(phuh) u will find on many accounts he told muslims to have the best of weapons and armoury for defence to secure them selves. technology, economic growth, prosperity and political stabilty can only be achieved once u are secure!!!!!!!!

And please my friend next time you decide to post post something which makes sence and do study south asia's political history, and economics, in depth then make a statement!!! cuz if u would have studied them in depth you would have known of the attempts which were made for peace failed due to various reasons, i dont want to go into details but you can tell from a game of cricket how the indians and pakistani normal everyday averge people hate eachother. There is so much hatred towards eachother back home that there is no other way to achieve security.

33

**Originally posted by robby: *
very easy to say, very hard to achieve. Changez_like bro say u someone has made a habbit of tresspassing and destroying your property and further tries to hurt you, what will you do at that moment???? welcome him to loot u, and beat you up??? i think logically you will defend your self and next time you will be prepared incase it happens again. *

I know talk is cheap and easy thats why we all are here :). Give me reasons why those wars occurred.

One more thing if you look at hadiyah of the prophet(phuh) u will find on many accounts he told muslims to have the best of weapons and armoury for defence to secure them selves. technology, economic growth, prosperity and political stabilty can only be achieved once u are secure!!!!!!!!

Prophet Mohammed PBUH also told us many more things, do we follow? If were to follow, we'd be in a lot better shape then the mess we are in.

And please my friend next time you decide to post post something which makes sence and do study south asia's political history, and economics, in depth then make a statement!!! cuz if u would have studied them in depth you would have known of the attempts which were made for peace failed due to various reasons, i dont want to go into details

Lets assume I have never read history. I really don't want to go back to history taught in our schools, do you? Tell me why did all peace efforts failed? I'm ready to be educated.

*but you can tell from a game of cricket how the indians and pakistani normal everyday averge people hate eachother. There is so much hatred towards eachother back home that there is no other way to achieve security. *

Remember, this "hate" didn't start yesterday, it started the day Pakistan came into being but kept alive by our politicians and army. We don't have one good neighbor, why? We can't even befriend Iran or Afghanistan! There are things seriously wrong in our "think tank".

34

I would agree to what Entity Paradigm just said. Had it not been for the military, we would have been a no-show now. And hskhan, I know you are fool, but when you say 'Pakistan is no match for India', 'Pakistani military is corrupt etc' & oh yes 'GTA 4 vice city is haraam' you truely showed you are really immature. Last year when there was a face off between Pakistan and India after the parliament attacks, why didnt India attack Pakistan? That was because Pakistan had almost 6 lines of defence ready and plus, India cannot just attack us now because of our n capability. There is something called the balance of terror, and Pakistan and India both have a say in this balance, which makes sure no one can just attack one another wheneve they feel like. So my silly little friend, you are very wrong when you say India can just come in and attack Pakistan. As for corruption, well, living in that sorry place what do you really know about Pakistan Military? On the contrary it is the only institute in the country which is void of such things.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hskhan: *
This discussion has nothing to do with Defense Day. 1965 was a long time ago.

[/QUOTE]

Yah but you conveniently chose to open this thread for whatever sinister reasons you might have. Today is the Defence Day (Sept 6). You may have forgotton 1965, we havnt. Ive seen you anti-military attitude rampant on these boards.

And yah listen to Spock above. You have no clue about the Pak Military, its history and its past and its present. Educate youself.

36

I respect the military of 65'. I digust in today's.

37

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hskhan: *
I respect the military of 65'. I digust in today's.
[/QUOTE]

Firstly if you were a real pakistani, you would have understood the importance of Defence Day..

I am sick of justifying why pakistan needs a strong military force, it is simple kid... To defend its sovreginety and and people, did you see what they did in gujrat well that is exactly what would happen if the pak army was disbanded or reduced in size. If you even had a brain you would understand that compared to 1965 the part of our nations history you so adore, our military is 100 times better then what it was then.

For example, we have Covert Ops, Mini Sub ops, Counter-Spec -Ops, and a well established air to ground defensive plan. These things make us a very formidiable opponent, if we truly were a push over as you suggets, why did india not attack when it had well over 700,000 troops stationed outside our border and well over 1 million more in IHK.???

THINK!!!

Pakistan needs education, it needs health it needs equal rights for everyone and it needs to provide the basic needs of the common man. But un-linke india where half the worlds hungary live, in Pakistan, mashallah hardly anyone goes hungary there is always a darbar open to provide shelter and some food or water.

The problem with people like you is you compare us to the european states, such as Germany, UK or even the US!! Stop right there these nations have had many hundreds of years to grow and develop and faced many civil wars and revolutions.. So how can one expect Pakistan to not go through this period before it finally settels's Down....

Have you read a Book called the Art of war it was the earliest manual written about war by a chinese gerneral, and even today is used as refrence material for Officers at West-Point, Sandhurst and countless other international military training centre's.

Here is a quote from that book:
The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected-Sun Tzu.

There you see, The need for a well designed military was considered even 5000 years ago.

And please dont compare our vastly superior military to the primitive force we had in 1965. Now that kind of thinking is disgraceful... Have you even seen the weapon systems made at POS, or Heavy Weapons texlia??? Open you eyes my frined.

38

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kareem: *
The military is needed to fight evil Indians. Down with India. Down with Indians (except 2bornot2b, he's a nice Indian).
[/QUOTE]

Aap ke moo mai ghee shakar :)

39

pai-ya.. aisa na kai… warna bhai jaan gusa khaa jaein gey.. too much FAT in ghee shakar..:smiley:

NO TO FAT…lolzzz

jokin…

anyway ppl carryon… PAK MILITARy.. zindabad:jhanda:

40

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hskhan: *
I respect the military of 65'. I digust in today's.
[/QUOTE]

I stand up for the military, even though I am a civilian. I have had the honor of studying with Army Cadets (Gentlemen cadets) who started their training at E&ME corps, and I know how much they train, and how much love they have for their country. And if I find someone doubting their patriotism and spirits, I have a problem with them. Isnt it sad, these army cadets are ready to give away their lives for their country and some freaks living outside of Pakistan can criticize their jazba? Do you know there was an uncommissioned officer in Kargil who died fighting, and they found out he had been eating 'grass' and continued to fight till the death? He even got a standing ovation from the enemy soldiers.

hskhan, assmuing your right, you are forgetting that the might of the army is not represented by a handful of corrupt generals or brigs. Its the lower ranked jawans and the captains and the majors who represent the Pak Force.

"Is parcham ke saye taley, Pak fauj ke jawan hum"