Pakistan's Establishment

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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With the latest Wikileaks cables, the Pakistani public finally sees what was known in the elite circles all along - that Pakistan is a client state of the US/Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately already having the exposure to conversations with those in power, I am not surprised by the level of corruption, vanity, and division that exists within the Pakistani Establishment. We are morally collapsed country with a debauched leadership.

I am curious to hear your thoughts about the possibility of Pakistan charting a different course - where Islam and sovereignty are held supreme, when the elites of the nation are thoroughly corrupted by power, money, and influence?

Or are we destined towards that slow rot that will consume the country and eventually lead to it’s economic collapse?

Establishment is a term used commonly by Pakistani analysts and also by political scholars around the world for the Military dominant oligarchy in Pakistan. This group of individuals, while not exclusively Military, are considered key decision makers in major policy decisions like Pakistan’s nuclear programme, the defence budget and the use of Intelligence Agencies in Pakistan.[1]](The Establishment (Pakistan) - Wikipedia)
One description of the Establishment has been given by Stephen P. Cohen in his book the Idea of Pakistan.
Cohen calls this establishment a “moderate oligarchy” and defines it as “an informal political system that [ties] together the senior ranks of the military, the civil service, key members of the judiciary, and other elites.” Membership in this oligarchy, Cohen contends, requires adherence to a common set of beliefs: that India must be countered at every turn; that nuclear weapons have endowed Pakistan with security and status; that the fight for Kashmir is unfinished business from the time of partition; that large-scale social reforms such as land redistribution are unacceptable; that the uneducated and illiterate masses deserve only contempt; that vociferous Muslim nationalism is desirable but true Islamism is not; and that Washington is to be despised but fully taken advantage of. Underlying these “core principles,” one might add, is a willingness to serve power at any cost. [2]](The Establishment (Pakistan) - Wikipedia)
Another description of it was written in 2006 by Mushahid Hussain,Pakistani journalist and politician allegedly close to the establishment in the Pakistani English language paper The Friday Times. "This Establishment comprises anywhere from 500 to 1000 individuals, some related to each other through family or marriage, from amongst the military brass, the top bureaucracy, superior judiciary, intelligence outfits. Its wings are flanked by feudal lords, industrial magnates and media barons. " [3]](The Establishment (Pakistan) - Wikipedia)
In addition to influencing policy and accused of manipulating elections, the establishment is considered to be responsible for the creation of a variety of political parties and alliances.[4]](The Establishment (Pakistan) - Wikipedia) Secular and liberal groups in particular accuse it of helping in the formation of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal a conservative religious parties alliance.[5]](The Establishment (Pakistan) - Wikipedia)
General Zia-ul Haq also introduced the concept of strategic depth as part of the establishments politics. He coined this term in the context of politics and military strategy. After Afghanistan was invaded by the Soviets, he looked at Afghanistan as a source of political and military strategic depth for Pakistan. He saw Pakistan’s strength in a Pakistani dominated Islamic Afghanistan. [6]](The Establishment (Pakistan) - Wikipedia)
More recently, Pakistani columnist Kamran Shafi, described the Estabishment as a form of the Turkish Deep state.[7]](The Establishment (Pakistan) - Wikipedia)

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Re: Pakistan's Establishment

This all is result of killing of Liaqat Ali Khan, Hussain Shaheed Sohrwardi, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Benazir Bhutto. Only N$ survived because he was from Lahore .What do you expect from politicians ?
They keep them under pressure and under threat to their lives. They are forced to be corrupt in these circumstances.

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On behalf of TLK..let me warn u that the PA is the holiest cow! Consider ur self warned :D

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Re: Pakistan’s Establishment

I am afraid.
Bachah Abkay Maaf kardo
Phir naheen kahoon ga

ابکے معاف کر دو

But please read this story.
**](“Redirect Notice”)

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Re: Pakistan's Establishment

I think the lack of accountability and the fact that the Pakistani public does not have the *cojones *to step up and call for a revolution. You seem to be dismissive of the corruption in Pak politics, and I know why: There is a culture of corruption in Pakistan, but that does not mean that things can not change. If things stay the same, we WILL spiral downwards and cease to exist as an effective state.

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God bless you.
I see a good future of Pakistan if people like you continue thinking for Pakistan.

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I partially agree with you but i think the short history of Pakistan shows that they are capable of revolution and they they have worked for it until it is hijacked by some political or military personality..

People of Pakistan were on the street against the very 1st military dictator and yes they were shouting and marching their hearts out against ZAB and yes the people of Pakistan by themselves, against the wishes of Largest Democratic Party's Leadership, Against the wishes of USA, got the Chief Justice of Pakistan on his seat not once but twice...

It is law of nature that things never stays the same, no matter how good or bad times are out their, they are ought to be changed... Pakistan is having its bad time and indeed it shall be followed by the good times...

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Re: Pakistan's Establishment

hanibal: Pakistani people in general are mentally incapable, even those who claim that they are educated and are not corrupt. These people would never come out on road against corruption, nepotism or provincialism, but would come out to perform bhangra on road if any corrupt would give them help call. Classic example is so-called educated of upper Punjab came out on call of corrupt Iftikhar Chaudhary and corrupt politicians supporting Iftikhar Chaudhary, without even knowing his case situation (and even now they do not know or would not like to know), just because either these people were pro-taliban anti-Musharraf, were corrupt, or were blind-folded supporter of corruption as long as it is done by a person from their province or party.

As what I know, case of Iftikhar Chaudhary was ‘simple case’ that he was alleged of corruption, nepotism and misuse of power. He got suspended (not sacked but suspended) and his case went to ‘Supreme Judicial Council’ (consist of 3 senior most SC judges and 2 senior most HC chief justices) for investigation. If he was not guilty of allegations he would have got exonerated (cleared) and if he was guilty then only he may have got sacked (not necessarily, but could have). To me there was nothing wrong in SJC investigating him and step taken by Musharraf was correct, as past head of states never even bothered using SJC but sacked CJs at will. [SJC is constitutional body to investigate judges]

Bhangra on road by his supporters was to stop investigation on Iftikhar by Supreme Judicial Council. Call for bhangra by Iftikhar and his lawyers to save his skin from investigation itself is proof for me that Iftikhar was guilty of all allegations on him. For me, if people do not want a person alleged of corruption, nepotism, misuse of office, mismanagement, and misconduct, to get investigated by judges holding highest offices in country, than how come they want corrupts to get investigated and punished?

Note: Some brainless gave me an argument that it was Musharraf personal vendetta against Iftikhar that was cause of sending reference on him. But these people had no answer when I asked them that if Musharraf had personal vendetta then why use SJC consisting of SC and HC judges, when Musharraf could have removed Iftikhar in many uncomplicated ways without sending reference to SJC where SJC could have cleared Iftikahr of all allegations after investigation (assuming that Iftikhar was not guilty)? On the other hand, if Iftikhar was not corrupt and not guilty of allegations in reference than why he did not let SJC do investigation and get him cleared, rather he took help of all corrupt politicians and corrupts from public to start Bhangra on road so to pressurise government and SC and force SC to stop SJC investigate him?

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Re: Pakistan's Establishment

As far as Establishment is concerned, it exist in every country and throughout the history, in the monarchy, some may call them "King-Makers". In middle ages, Church had been part of the establishment and the head of the church use ( the holiest man) use to be the final decision maker... this is still in practice in Iran.

There is a universal law about the establishment, if the king is weak ( by character and/or compatibility) then establishment takes over... ruling through the weak individual... and establishment is consists of different groups, they all they different priorities and tastes... it is just matter of time that which group of establishment have control over govt....

Pakistan has been continuously blessed with the most incompatible & corrupt leadership (ZAB included), all these leaders although elected by the people ( doesn't matter if they call it referendum or votes in elections) they never ever able to deliver anything... there are reasons for it, firstly, they are highly incompatible and cannot deliver, 2ndly providing facility or the good-governance is not the priority anyway...

These leaders considered other tactics, mainly foreign powers as source of their POWER-HOUSE, hence did what ever in their capacity make them happy and pose as their most loyal servant... not to blame them as they come from the Family of Land-lords brits raised for the very purpose...

The Est. of Pakistan or a part of it, knowing all this and lot more about it, continued to work within their limit for the existence of homeland, they played around sensibly, they used corrupt and incompetent political & military leadership as pawn and yes today we may not have the very best country in the world but still we have country which can defend itself from or at least pose a threat to the invaders to keep them at bay...

The country having leaders like we had through out the history, normally do not last this long...so their something good happening somewhere in the circles of establishment which kept the country going despite the inner and outside threats and challenges...

( politcal parties and good in creating shortages of necessities and hoarding the same... it started well with the ZAB and still continues...)
So the pe

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Re: Pakistan's Establishment

Please prove corruption by him

and you are right Punjab came out for him where as Karachi based organization killed people who tried to support him in karachi...

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Sometimes when you call other brainless, you do exactly the same.. as per the constitution of Pakistan CJ can only be removed by the SJC or if he resigns and you pal MUSHY used all of them

1) Put pressure of CJ to resign - Failed to do so...

2) Send ref. to SJC and try to buy/influence judges.. failed here again

3) impose martial law and he did it this time...

now i am sure you have all the essays and logic to say that the martial law of Nov 3rd was not to remove CJ and Judges....

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You are saying it same way Pakistani corrupts say, that is, prove it. When I will prove it, then same corrupt would tell, to go to court. If I would go to court then, corrupt would buy/influence court full of corrupt judges (as Thug Iftikhar did) so that judges reject that proof however clear that maybe. Well, corrupt Iftikhar thug, father of corrupts is a step ahead, as he even stopped investigation on his corruption using SC judges. Woh tou currpton ka bhie abba jaan nikla :)

Why you are surprised because people of Karachi did not came out to support daddy of corruption, the great corrupt Iftikhar? People in Karachi are not corrupt (or maybe less corrupt) and hence obviously they did not come out to support daddy of corruption, Iftikahr Chaudhary. Good thing they did not, as if they would have, they would be regarded supporter of corrupts too.

You should know that lying is bad, bad, and really bad. :) You can call me brainless or hide but you should not lie and here you are lying (either due to misinformation or intentionally).

As for constitution of Pakistan, any person can allege a judge including CJ and send that allegation to President. It is duty of President to decide and if consider appropriate, send that allegation to SJC for investigation.

Now let see where you are lying or accusing baselessly due to misinformation:

It is lie (or your misinformation) that SJC removes CJ. SJC only investigates under the direction of President and sends report to President. It is President who sees the report and decides if he would use that report to sack CJ or let CJ stay in duty.

1: Put pressure on CJ to resign - failed to do so:

What Pressure? President had report alleging Iftikhar Chaudhary that he was corrupt characterless thug, so President showed him those allegations and asked him that if he would like to contest those allegations or resign (you cannot say that asking such was pressure). Corrupt Thug Iftikhar said that he would contest. Once corrupt Iftikhar decided to contest, Musharraf as PRESIDENT suspended Iftikhar from CJ post and send allegations as reference to SJC for investigation (nothing wrong there, something every good manager should do). So, no big deal unless one is corrupt and thinks that corrupt iftikhar should not be called and given option regardless of allegations against him. As regarding putting pressure on Iftikhar, that is lie.

[Note: Iftikhar decided to contest his corruption report because he thought that as CJ he would head SJC, and as happens in Pakistan, he would bring SJC investigation results according to his wishes. Musharraf neutralised him by suspending him, something was necessary so that SJC could work without bias or pressure. That was shock for Iftikhar as he realised he would get caught pants down. So, he went to court against suspension. All Pakistani corrupts came out to support Iftikhar (their peti-bhai in corruption and God of corrupts). Corrupt politicians and corrupts from civil society with their bhangra on road gave him full support. Corrupts in media started spreading misinformation that Iftikhar was sacked (when he was suspended), and in the end corrupt judges of SC not only lifted suspension over him but stopped SJC to investigate him]

2: Send ref. To SJC and try to buy/influence judges .. failed here again.

Again lies (maybe due to misinformation). Buy/influence judges ... is complete lies. Only corrupt Riawand thugs do that and there is audio recording that proves it, where characterless Shahbaz the thug can be heard directing SC judge (Malik Qayum) to give verdict against Zardari and also to get soft on Shabaz’s men.

Musharraf did not even send any case to SC neither he needed to, rather Mushraff asked SJC to investigate corrupt Iftikhar. SJC was supposed to investigate and send their report to President. That is all. It was Iftikhar who went to SC, called all corrupt past politicians to help him, and started bhangra on road so to influence SC so that they lift his suspension. Obviously, he wanted that suspension to get lifted so that he could influence SJC. Anyhow, under corrupt Iftikhar pressure plus pressure of politicians SC did more than lifting suspension. They even directed SJC to stop investigation.

Thus, reality on ground is that it was not Musharraf or anyone in government, but it was Bhangra on road by supporters of corrupt thug Iftikhar and his team of monkeys in black coat, plus corrupt politicians who started using their clout on SC Judges, pressurised judges to help corrupt Iftikhar.

Another proof is that, SC stopped SJC from investigating corrupt thug Iftikahr Chaudhary, something SC has no right to do so, but still SC did, showed who did everything to influence or buy judges and even make them give judgement on things they had no right.

It is amazing that SJC who is suppose to be more powerful higher body then SC and consists of senior most SC judges were stopped by SC to investigate on corrupt thug Iftikhar (something that can only happen in Pakistan, a society where corrupts are Gods).

3: Impose martial law and he did it this time?

Impose martial law ... you mean 1999 martial when the corrupt thug and opportunist Iftikhar used that opportunity to get vacated place in SC due to Martial law as SC judge and later used his corrupt character doing everything to bolster that Martial law so to become CJ?

Note: We all know that Musharraf sent referenced to SJC. We also know what was in that reference. I claimed that SC illegally stopped SJC from investigation so that corruption of Iftikhar does not come on surface, and that also gets confirmed by SJC. Hence according to me, present situation is that, there is no report of SJC on Iftikhar.

If you think I am lying than it means SJC must have produced their report regarding reference on Iftikhar's corruption, giving answer to each and every allegation in that reference, either clearing him or implicating him. If that is the case, then that report must be present, and if that report is present then please show me that report of SJC on their investigation of corrupt thug Iftikhar.

As far as I am concerned, obviously you will not be able to show SJC report on reference because what I wrote is truth. If I am lying and you are telling truth then you will find that report and would be able to show it. Hence, presence or absence of report by SJC on reference itself is proof who is telling truth and who is not.

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[mod]Please avoid personal name calling... you don't have to call other posters as liars/corrupt/brainless to make your point.[/mod]

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@ Saleem

like i said, you are use to long baseless essays....

if SJC finds CJ guilty then only president or PM can remove him right... that is why the ref has to be sent to SJC... so who hold the decision/investigation... the action after the recommendations of SJC by President of PM is just a formality or are you telling me that even if SJC finds someone guilty.. President/PM can go against the advise
( i have purposely used prime minister and president and i have used the word advice and i have used the word recommendation.... others can understand what i mean here but for you it is the finding of SJC)

i normally avoid baseless arguments... i have made my point.. now you can write another 1000 words saying that the Nov 3rd action by MUSHY was right or it never happened ( Just like killings of May 12 never took place) and yes mushy is so innocent that he still do know why the people of pakistan do not eat chicken if pulses are expensive.....

Actually it is funny... Saleem Didn;t know that there was Marshal Law imposed on Nov 3rd 2007.. he was too busy or wait a minute you may want to call it Emergency right!!! Oh no! here comes 1000 words

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The reason they didn't come because somebody somehow got all the containers to block the roads and killed 48 people in broad day light.... yes guess who your favorite MQM and MUshy was literally doing Bhangra in Islamabad...

Now please do not tell me that he got some itches in his arm-pits and/or he raised his hands and fingers and moved his body in a certain rhythm because there was some mosquito in his clothes... and the punches he showed was actually not the punch but he had found a 50 paisas on the stage...

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^^ My posts are never baseless. When I write, I make sure I do not lie or write to misguide unawares, rather I try to put down facts without ambiguity. Only those who hate facts feel upset and complain.

As far as Pakistani constitution goes, Prime Minister or SJC has nothing to do with appointing or removing judges. Appointing and removing judges is right of only President. As for SJC, they can only investigate Judges and send reports with their opinion to President. President may take SJC opinion for his judgment to keep or remove particular judge, but it is not binding (that is why word used in constitution is ‘may’ and not ‘should’).

As for 3rd Nov action, that was emergency regardless of whatever propaganda machine of corrupt politicians to misguide people call that. Pakistani constitution allows President to declare emergency in country if situation demands emergency.

Further, it was not only people of Karachi who did not joined Bhangra of corrupts supporting corrupt Iftikhar, but people of interior Sindh, Sarhad, Baluchistan, Kashmir, Swat as well as Saraekistan also did not joined corrupts in corruption Bhangra. Only exception was North Punjab from where corrupt Iftikhar belongs and they came out to support him and his corruption. Few corrupts form other provinces along with corrupt monkeys in black coat also joined them, but their numbers was insignificant.

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So the army put a gun to BB's and ZAB;s head and ordered to loot the country?

The army forced the Bhutto's to do nothing abd be incompetent whilst the common man gets poorer?

Stop using the race card. Being from Lahore has nothing to do with survival. Maybe he was just a lot smarter than the Bhutto's in the art of survival.

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Yeah. We all are smarter in this art.

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Re: Pakistan's Establishment

I think that definition of establishment for Pakistan is a bit unfair as it assumes politicians, feudals and other elite grups are pretty much useless. he Establishment is a term used to refer to the traditional ruling class elite and the structures of society that they control. The term can be used to describe specific entrenched elite structures in specific institutions, - Looking at that definition the establishment in Pakistan would also include those landlords who have existed since partition, industrialists, sernior bureaucracts and administrators as well as the high ranking military personnel.

Most of Pakistan's current elite and establishment have roots to one place- serving the British. Most landlords and other landowners who hold/own larger tracts of land came about through their services to the British. Senior military officers, politicians, bureaucrats tend to belong to families which specialise in such professions - many actually cross professions ie an army officers child may become a sernior policeman or doctor - most have ancestors who have served in the British era. People belonging to professional job backgrounds are more likely to come from affluent backgrounds who rose under the British. Looking at politicians many have roots going back to the British era ie the ANP's Wali Khans and many elonging to the Muslim League.

The elite and children of the establishment are kept well away from riff-raff Pakistanis who are the other 90% and raised on a Western style of living. Parents send their children abroad to be educated. They think their children are out of the way of Pakistanis but they let them into another type of danger. Once abroad most of these spoilt brats start "playing around". Classic example is Bilawal Bhutto who allegedly had party animals as friends who were bisexual and he himself a frequenter of Gay clubs. That story was printed by the British press after his mother died. Imagine if he was really gay. Of course he will never come out as it ruins his chances of becoming a leader in Pakistan but surely he would have a hidden private life. Although, how private his life would remain is hard to say after all he has more or less ben given the party by mommy and daddy and he is of immense interest to the British and other foreign secret services. Imagine if they had photos and video footage of him drunk and in compromising situations with people of the same gender? Almost certainly he would be black-mailed into doing as other nations may want.

Many of our elites are basically raised, nurtured and coerced by their British and American Masters - our brave army generals, our democratic politicians etc etc. The Americans have divided all power groups within Pakistan - Army is divided into 2 liberal and fundo, the political parties all seem to need American approval and encouragement.

It pains me to see a nuclear country act so pathetically at times. I think it is something to do with history though - the Indian subcontinent has spent large parts of its existence under the rule of people belonging to other areas and they have a cultural inferiority complex.

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Re: Pakistan’s Establishment

I tell you some names of famous landlords at the time of partition. Mamdot ,Khoro,Tiwana,Doltana. Chatha etc. Most of them are not so big land lords now but a new generation of these land lords is now visible, The biggest example is Chauhdaries of Gujrat. From a terminated from service head constable to the richest people of Pakistan.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Working_Committee.jpg/250px-Working_Committee.jpg
However everything is different here. The word establishment is only for Boots group and your specification is for the people ,We call that Takht e Lahore. Takht e Lahore is happily working under the toe.
You referred to the nuclear, That was only great work done by Pakistanis but when.
Only small time given to civilians after 1971