Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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The hypocrisy and opportunism of certain elements of Pak society are quite pathetic. Oppose Feudalism verbally but Fauji Landlords and Fauji Sardar rulers and the impunity of which pakistans ruling establishment runs things are ignored. :cb:

The Fauji landlords actions in Okara are quite well documented. As far as Fauji Sardars they are also called Military rulers who break every oath and pledge they make, they then say they did it to clean up the system and will leave as asoon as possible and then fast forward 10 years and there friends and families are Crore patis in dollars..they officially hate politicians corruption but when needed they don’t mind appointing spineless corrupt ones as Ministers or Governors, they officially dislike Mullahs but don’t mind making deals with them, they hate the MQM but make a deal with the MQM, they hate Benazir Bhutto but negotiate with her, the list goes on and yet most people in our society endlessly harp on the evils of Baloch Sardars and Sindhi waderos and lets not forget the evils of Military action in Iraq which also uses words about the evils of Arab society and the tribal nature of their society. They condemn collective punishment in Palestine but they are ok with it in Waziristan. They condemn the Tribal areas for non payment of taxes and yet everytime their is a campaign to crackdown on income tax and sales tax defaulters in the urban areas there are howls of protest. :o

They don’t mind that fact that the Fauji Establishment spends all revenues on Military expenditure and debt servicing. Yet express their shock when Waderos and Sardars don’t spend money on schools. :eek:

Yes, most pro Fauji government supporters are pseudo opponents of feudalism, ..sarkari sardars and sarkari zamindars are fine but sardars who don’t agree with them..bad send in the army. :rolleyes:

They go around praising the restoration of rights to people exiles from Dera Bugti and are silent when it comes to allowing politicians to return to their country. they then endlessly praise the economic improvement going on in Pakistan but they forget no matter how big the cake is if it’s sliced unjustly people will still be angry. :mad:

They confuse high revenues with high expenditures on education and health. they confuse economic improvements with long term stability and when everything goes belly up.. they still can’t figure out why things are such a mess. :what:

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

FYI for the non-tribal world,

Police carrying weapons --- good
Thieves, dacoits, tribals carrying weapons -- NOT good.

There you have it. The biggest double standard especially from a thief’s point of view.

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

[quote]
They condemn the Tribal areas for non payment of taxes and yet everytime their is a campaign to crackdown on income tax and sales tax defaulters in the urban areas there are howls of protest.
[/quote]

Atleast in other areas of pakistan they pay taxes to begin with UNLIKE our muftikhora drug smuggler waziris / alqaeda! ;)

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

Zakk, the problem is that you are addressing the wrong crowd here, most of the young NRP who come to these sites belong to major urban areas and live in those "famous" urban enclaves of Pakistan. They hardly know about the poor in Okara or Sahiwal and how they were kicked out or the one which will be kicked out in Shaikhupura and shadipur. There Pakistan is only limited to few kilometers of large urban area and the media which represents them. Yes, they do shout and cry when some rabid Mullah convenes his own court and dispenses Justice 30 kilometers from the 4th largest city in Pakistan, or when the mullah are protesting on the streets. But you will never see them asking questions about poverty, lack of hospitals, lack of schools, lack of drinking water the constant insecurity, because, they never had to go through all these and these concepts are alien to them. All you ever hear them talking about is the trivial arguments of Pakistan being a secular state, the military presidency in a parliamentarian system, the role of army, Kashmir , India-centric or Afghan-centric policies. But will never question the judiciary, the bureaucracy the army which is bent on dragging the poor to extreme in their daily live. Majority of urban Pakistani are still living on a monthly wage of 4000 rupees per month, 60% of their monthly income goes to just feeding their 6.8 person household the majority lives under deplorable conditions, half of the Pakistani population lives without a latrine but its ok, the Pakistani government and its cronies never stop the mantra “sab theek hay” they have been repeating that for the last 58 years and the number of people who believe that are growing every day.

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

Some of you make it sound like Pakistani government is specifically singling out a specific region or people from a specific background and as if other parts of Pakistan are very developed and prosperous.

Aside from a few major cities, most of Pakistan is under the same situation and meets similar treatment.

It'd make more sense if you can include all such areas and not just one.

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

Zakk, another Pakistani-basher, who instead of pi*ing the restroom, likes to pi* on Pakistan here on paklinks.com.

You feeling relieved now, Zakk?

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

^ lol

seriously, whats with all these selected guppies devoting their lives to posting crap about pakistan all day long, dont they have girlfriends?

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Re: Pakistani’s, Opportunism & double standards

anti: i take it you have never lived in the US or Canada? FYI rest of the world Army on the border waging war=normal, army running real estate business, making cereal = corruption and abuse of power ..arrests tend to follow. Btw I don’t see you condemning the Army operation against the Okara peasants?

Soomro: wb blitzy..did you know that electricity pilferage in Karachi ranges between 40-60%? And yes everyone pays indirect tax in Pakistan because of petrol..pakistan has one of the lowest proportions of direct tax in the world.

Minime: thanks check your pm btw

Sadiyah: Thanks for particpating Bhaji I have no idea how you ended up lost in PA lol this is an emotionally charged board for men short on ideas and ready to fight :what: to answer your point I didn’t specify any place or city I was pointing at a section of our socitey which after the 50th post on the evils of feudalism and why x,y and z people are so backward because they allow themselves to be exploited by the feudal system, the silliness of these arguments finally got me. As for general inequality in Pakistan, I am afraid there have always been sharp variations of distribution of resources in Pakistan that has been proven time and time again by all data..but thats another thread in itself and many people here don’t or can’t discuss those issues (don’t perhaps because they don’t want to admit the truth which makes them hypocrites,or can’t because they are a bit thick).

Prince Abbas: No i am not relieved I was aiming for your mouth..say aaah! :cb:

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Re: Pakistani’s, Opportunism & double standards

Zakk
Excellent post
I was speaking with my cousins today who live in Rawalpindi near GHQ, the army is quickly turning into the most hated establishment in Pakistan. In our village in Chakwal they are seizing land and making and army base. For what we ask? Are they going to fight the Indians in this day in age? Why do they need to displace farmer and destroy ordinary lives for their nonsense.
Our neighberhood in Pindi borders and PAF colony. They think they can do anything they want because people are just “bloody civilians”
Did allah put these people on earth so they can suck our blood till we are all dead? At any of the large government agencies they have a bloody officer in charge who does’nt know the business from his own a$$. Why? What right does he have to be telling people what to do? Was he not trained to fight? Why should he be telling engineers and bankers how to do there job?
These things cycle, lets hope this cycle ends soon…

:jhanda:

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

I hope the army danda continues!

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

That is not fair Zakk. There is great difference between Balochi sardars, Sindhi waderas, Pashtun maliks, Punjabis chaudries and Army generals.

One of them know how to wear pants and march in a stright line!

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

The parties which you mentioned above are all creation of the army establishment MQM was created by zia,jamaat e islami's is always with the military so their headquarter is mansoorah as well as GHQ.PPP's founder was the martial law administrator.And other parties too

About the baloch sardars the majority is with the army with the exception of khair buksh marri,ataulah mengal,akbar bugti .The majority of the sardars are with the army.In the local bodies elections the JWP won all the seats from dera bugti unopposed.what about the messori bgtis who were kicked out by bugti sahab and the kalpars.

It is the ruling elite of pakistan which is corrupt from generals to the fuedals,the bureacracy and my friend do you know how the multinationals operate in pakistan

I am in no way defending army it should not take part in politics,it should not have agricultural lands and create societies for its officers but i think it is now fashionable to criticise army for everything

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The truth hurts some people

Some people will ignore the problems with Pak and pretend it's the land of milk and honey, while others who know the state of affairs, will at least try to raise the problem and hope something, eventually changes

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Re: Pakistani’s, Opportunism & double standards

Zak, I have never supported army rule, nor do I intend to do that. But I am ‘guilty’ of not opposing it. I started visiting this forum only a couple of months ago. At least half of the people here don’t even believe in Pakistan. Most of their time is spent telling us how flawed Pakistani state is, and how it is going to disintegrate. I really don’t mind if people talk about the problems in Pakistani society, (and there are plenty of problems), but why should I listen to those messiahs who don’t even believe in Pakistan? People should stop pursuing their ‘greater’ agendas under the cover of ‘provincial harmony/disharmony’ or the defence expenditure.

MQM chief (a true Pakistani democrat) can go to India and tell the whole world about the ‘greatest mistake of mankind’, but wouldn’t bother to come to Pakistan to face justice. Nevertheless, after his love affair with Musharraf, he wouldn’t have to face any justice. Similarly, Benazir and Zardari were no angels. Why Zardari is not coming to Pakistan? Why is miss Bhutto not coming to Pakistan? She left the country before militarty take-over. Military men didn’t force them out. People have short memories, and tend to forget the economic and social ‘development’ under democratic regimes. Nawaz did win most votes, but unfortunately, he used his democratic power in the most undemocratic fashion. Closing down newspapers and ‘sacking’ generals because they don’t support hasty legislation or want NSC is not the way forward. Pakistani press was termed ‘mafia’ by Mushahid Hussain, not by some generals, who have recently shown greater tolerance and support for these self-serving journos than any democratic rulers in Pakistan. However, Shehbaz/Nawaz must be allowed to come back to Pakistan. No doubt about that. Benazir and Iltaf should also take first flight home.

Somebody pointed out that people here have never visited poor areas. I have visited Pakistani villages. I have met and lived with ordinary people of Pakistan. I might not have visited interior Sindh or Baloch tribal areas, but I have spent years among ordinary Pakistanis. Let me tell you something very interesting. I was in Pakistan when first local bodies election (under Musharraf) were held. I didn’t want to cast my ballot because I didn’t consider any of the candidates my representative. But I was approached by more than one parties. So in order to please them, I went to the polling station, took my ballots/stamp from the officer, went inside the voting room, stood there for a couple of minutes, neatly folded the ballots without stamping any of them, came out and inserted them inside the ballot box. Yes, this is my democratic right! I do not consider any of the candidates my representative. I’m not going to cast my ballot for anyone whose sole interest in getting elected is to make money or acquire power. Isn’t it ironic that the ‘democrats’ who wanted to revamp tax-system, when they were in power, are the ones who support strikes to oppose any change when they are out of power? Why should I prefer these ‘democrats’ over army?

A bunch of hypocrites … Not me, but these politicans. When they start working for the country, I’ll show my readiness to support any democracy. Until then, they can take me to the ballot box, but they can’t have my stamp of approval. Neither for the army, nor for self-serving democracy.

In the end, it’s the majority of Pakistani people who are responsible for this mess … more than any politicans, more than any bureaucrats, more than any army. Pakistanis are the best when it comes to critcizing their country or system, but would oppose every other measure that requires them to become responsible citizens of the state. :what:

Desi Miss Manners.
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Malik: Thank you for your comments, without going too far from my original thread let me say this, Armed forces which involve themselves too much with civilians lose their ability to fight, this is simply a historically a fact.

tmk: As is the way of badshahgardi in Pakistani politics, the chances that Mush will be ousted by one of his own are quite high, so you may get to see more of the army danda then you would like in time..

khek: Lol that is definitely a huge difference..

syedpk: The Army (league) by playing politics automatically has to be able to face criticism for it's politics, you can't claim to be an army defending our frontier with our tax payers money ..then play politics and then complain why you are being criticised. I don't disagree with the rest of your comments, however I would say one simple thing** Feudalism is a mentality, it is not about owning land..you can be an industrial feudal you can be a fauji feudal you can be a babu with a feudal mentality..all you have to do to be a sardar or a feudal is have a mentality where you believe should be ruled by the stick, where the law applies to others and not to you..and where your promise is only kept to someone more powerful than you..** if you accept that definition i just gave then the Army is the biggest feudal of them all..if you prefer the definition of owning land then again by virtue of land ownership in Southern Punjab and Sindh again they represent feudalism.

TRD: Thanks

Amorphous: Thank you for your comments you obviously took time and wrote what you did with sincerity and from the heart. Firstly what Minime said was not targetting you but he was pointingt out that obvious this board does not represent the everyday pakistani awam..if it did ..in the 2002 elections Imran Khan would have swept into power (as whenever there was a poll before the 2002 elections people on paklinks would vote for him..considering his one seat in parliament that obviously does not reflect reality).

Your point about the Army not forcing people out, I feel (while I don't defend BB or NS) you are missing something when you say the Army didn't force them out, in fact the Army has a history of exiling or dealing with opponents. In the 1950's Iskandier Mirza was ousted by Ayub Khan and sent to ENgland without a penny in his pocket. Ayub Khan then forced into exile Pakistans only popular leaderat the time Suhrwardy ..he died under mysterious circumstances. ZAB well everyone knows what his fate was, Nawaz Sharif once again was sent into exile.. by contrast whenever civilians have been in power ..they have rarely retaliated.

As far as Altaf Hussein is concerned..the MQM came to a realisation that BB,NS and the mullahs made sometime back, that winning elections in Pakistan means nothing if the people at the top don't give you approval. Altaf hussein has just realised reality for all the MQM's enormous electoral influence over Pakistans commercial capital it can't implement any policy even if elected.. Your comment about hypocrites and politicians yes..i can understand why you are bitter

My point is a general one..a certain class of people..a segment of hypocrites and opportunists in Pakistan don't ..and never have believed in democracy..they firmly believe that might is right, they believe that violence is a first option in dealing with domestic problems, they say they oppose corruption but when you bring it down to basics it's only those corrupt they personally dislike.. i on the other hand say this if you (not you personally AMorphos obviously) oppose corruption oppose it everywhere not just those you dislike otherwise it's just victimisation..if you oppose feudalism oppose it everywhere...if you oppose Israel bombing Palestinians in Gaza ..some if not everything that happens in Waziristan should offend you just as much, if you oppose racism when you live in the west condemn it in the east ..if you don't you are either very dumb, very selfish or just a hypocrite.

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

Bubloo Khan, live in Pakistan and comment. Bunch of these Lucknawai khans use Pakistani passport to reach the shores of UK and US. They open aloo stores there and then start criticizing Pakistan.

Khan Ji, zamin (agri-land) politics is very unique to land development especially in Pakistan. If you have ever been involved in land development (instead of running aloo stores), you won't be jumping up and down about Okara.

A typical housing development or agri-farm needs 100s (if not 1000s) of contiguous land. Once you start the process of land acquisition, you'd face many challenges.

  1. The local folks would sell it, pocket the money, and then refuse to vacate the land.

  2. Land is acquired, but the development is delayed due to licensing or financing issues. You give out land on tilling-contract, once the contract expires, the tillers refuse to vacate.

and it goes on an on.

There are similar but less dramatic stories even in the US. However your pre-occupation of aloo stores won't allow you to go check out that scene.

That is why Khan Ji, when you own 100s of acres, you also carry a big stick. You know when to speak softly, and when to use that stick. Disclaimer: These words of wisdom are not mine, some good American president used them long time ago.

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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

[quote]
did you know that electricity pilferage in Karachi ranges between 40-60%? And yes everyone pays indirect tax in Pakistan because of petrol..pakistan has one of the lowest proportions of direct tax in the world.
[/quote]

And you also know that the biggest smuggling rings of Pakistan if not the world operate in the border areas close to afghanistan (like spin boldak and your waziristan) transporting heroin and smuggling other stuff!

You would be the first to complain when that intended heroin ends up in the tribal hands and they 'sniff it. In that case, you will be blaming Pak government while you complain regularly against involvement of government in any capacity in the tribal areas.

YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

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^^ They certainly can "have it both ways". They are afterall Kabuli ka-bul-buli Pushtoons. Haven't you heard the stories of Nada-bazi?

Next Desi Manners question.
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Re: Pakistani's, Opportunism & double standards

Zakk , don't waste your time here, people outside Pakistan are too much caught up in media's propaganda of all is good here...

Forget the army and the democrats of our country, I know one thing, the so called religious people in Pakistan, and the ruling waderas, or the chuadhrys of Lahore, have no idea of what JUSTICE is.... They will be never be far sighted enough to understand that survival of Pakistan is dependent on a good justice system. Why would they care about Pakistan in the first place , they play their one and only game well -- musical chairs!

Next Desi Manners question.
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^ But the solution is not to revert back to the days of commie leftist socialism and aryan race theories!

It got pakistan dismembered once if you didn't know!