Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

aren't you suggesting exactly what you oppose? why must anyone other than the state be the ones doing the job of policing, and maintaining law and order? isn't arming tribes for decades and using them as proxies for the state that got this fine mess going?

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Lol so the claims of ISI involvement are made by an American born in Washington that was a drugs dealer and an agent for Drugs Enforcement Agency.

I wouldn’t even call that evidence. Give me some real evidence.

ISI would have the information about foreign involvement in TTP but for reasons better known to their superiors in the army and in the PPP government they are remaining silent. The reasons seem to be political.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Forget the ISI, Mumbai, OBL, Abbottabad, etc. If you want to debate that then I suggest you open another thread to talk about that.

This thread is about foreign forces backing TTP.

You are among the most ardent supporters of this ficticious nonsense that TTP is being backed by foreign agencies and yet have failed utterly and totally to provide any tangible proof of this support.

And you answer by asking for proof for ISI’s involvement in hiding OBL. That is a textbook response of a person who has lost the debate and is trying to throw anything and everything hoping something sticks :rotfl:

So, I respectively choose to disagree with you. :smiley:

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Lol how can I lose the debate when you don’t want to debate. Your response is the textbook response of a person that cannot debate and to avoid the debate asks for something that he knows is not in the public domain, he well knows it is impossible to provide exact details as the agencies operating on either side of the war remain tight lipped on their activities and findings. The US frequently makes allegations against the ISI without providing any proof, so I ask you to provide me with proof for those allegations and you cannot provide any proof either. Yet lack of proof does not stop the name of Pakistan being tarnished by the US. You cannot demand what you cannot provide yourself. You cannot have double standards.

I have my reasons for believing what I do, and I can back it up with plenty of circumstantial evidence.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

You lost the debate when I asked you to present evidence of foreign backing of TTP and you brought in the ISI, Abbottabad, OBL, etc.

Instead of sticking to the topic and debating that you went on a tangent. Thats a sign of a person has lost the argument and needs to change the topic.

Your reasons are not good enough to convince anyone that Foreigners are backing the TTP.

Thanks for proving to everyone reading this thread how intellectually bankrupt this argument is that Foreigners are backing the TTP.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Instead of trying to disapprove me wrong with theoretical arguments that appeal to my logic and rationality it seems clear to me that your sole purpose is not to discuss or debate but to stop the thread in its track by moving the debate into a non issue and to paint me as a conspiracy theorist. If that is the case then why do you bother even replying, but then I forget that you are only into rhetoric and propaganda and PR.

Your premise that if you cannot see something then then it does not exist is false. I did not see the pictures of OBL killed and some people say that he died years ago, so should all of us believe that he is still alive as we have not seen his dead body? Surely they would have published his photo if he was really dead? Surely they would want to put the doubts about his death to rest? No because there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that he is dead and we have to consider it a fact even if we did not see his dead body in the newspapers.

Where we are not close enough to the action to gather evidence first hand we have to rely on circumstantial evidence.

The US fought an illegal war in Iraq and lost several thousand soldiers due to the lies of its leaders.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

arshad, he makes a good point: even if you didn't see OBL die, numerous news agencies around the world report that he did. Now you can deny that it happened, but you have to concede that the other side's assertion that OBL is dead is reasonable.

Similarly, it would help your claim that the TTP is run by foreign agencies if you could post some links to news reports, or statements, that support this. Simply saying that it's obvious does not prove anything. If you believe it, that's fine, but you can't claim that someone like mercenary is wrong for saying that the TTP are acting on their own.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

‘RAW Is Training 600 Balochis In Afghanistan’ | Mariana Baabar](http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?231032)

‘RAW Is Training 600 Balochis In Afghanistan’ The man widely regarded as Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf’s right-hand man claims India is playing the Great Game inside Afghanistan and paints the possibility of it destabilising the region

*Senator Mushahid Hussain Sayed is a man who wears many caps: he is the Pakistan Senate foreign relations committee chairman, the secretary-general of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League, and widely regarded as Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf’s right-hand man. A former editor of a major national daily, Hussain knows a thing or two about the unrest in Balochistan. It was a parliamentary committee headed by him that had recommended that the government grant autonomy to the Balochis, and ensure their province wasn’t forgotten in the rapid economic development of Pakistan.

Mariana Baabar met Hussain at his residence in Islamabad’s upscale E-sector.* *Though the joke here is that the E is for Extremely Rich, Hussain’s own home is modest. *His phone keeps ringing as he takes calls from politicians of all ideological hues. Between calls, he talks about the Great Game India’s playing inside Afghanistan and its possibility of destabilising the region. Excerpts:

**Why should Pakistan complain about India **having several consulates in Afghanistan? They are two sovereign states.
India currently has an extensive diplomatic presence in Afghanistan. It includes the Indian embassy in Kabul and another four consulates in Kandahar, Jalalabad, Mazar-e-Sharif and Herat. These Indian diplomatic missions serve as launching pads for undertaking covert operations against Pakistan, from Afghan soil. Particularly, the Indian consulates in Kandahar and Jalalabad and their embassy in Kabul are used for clandestine activities inside Pakistan in general and the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and Balochistan in particular.

Are you alleging that the Indian Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) is involved?
Indian diplomatic and RAW officials have significant ingress in the Afghan ministry of tribal affairs, and are exploiting it to conduct covert activities. [TABLE=“align: left”]

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“India has sizeable ingress in the Afghan ministry of tribal affairs, and is using it for covert activities against Pakistan.”

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Indian agents are instrumental in arranging meetings of tribal elders and Afghans with dual nationalities with Indian consulate officials in Jalalabad, and assisting them in spotting and recruiting suitable tribal elders from Jalalabad and Pakistan’s North and South Waziristan Agencies for covert activities.

**Are you then saying that RAW has managed a strong presence inside Afghanistan after the ouster of the Taliban? **
RAW has established its training camps in Afghanistan in collaboration with the Northern Alliance remnants. Approximately 600 ferraris, or Baloch tribal dissidents, are getting specialised training to handle explosives, engineer bomb blasts, and use sophisticated weapons in these camps.

**Has India revived its links with the leaders of the erstwhile Northern Alliance who are in power in Afghanistan today? **
India has invested heavily in its old connections with the leaders of the erstwhile Northern Alliance. It has sizeable support in Afghan parliament. Before the Afghan elections last year, the Indian ambassador called the Northern Alliance’s major leadership at his residence and paid them a handsome amount to run their election campaign.

Are allegations of India placing troops in Afghanistan correct?
India is gradually increasing the number of its paramilitary personnel in Afghanistan. It is stationing them there on the pretext of providing security and protection to the Border Roads Organisation, which is constructing the Zaranj-Dilaram road, and its consulates. From a few personnel, the strength of Indian troops has reached almost that of a company size force and even includes Black Cat Commandos.

Is the Afghan state helping India in these operations?
Yes, the Afghan Police, the Border Security Force and customs officials facilitate the visit of Indian diplomatic staff and intelligence agents to border areas, and help them to hold meetings with dissatisfied pro-Afghan dissidents, anti-state elements, and elders of the area. In this context, meetings of tribal elders are arranged by the Afghan intelligence agency (Riyast-i-Amniyat-i-Milli or RAM) at the behest of those RAW officials who serve in different diplomatic offices of India in Afghanistan. Indian agents are carrying out clandestine activities in the border areas of Khost and in Pakistan’s tribal areas of Miranshah with the active support of Afghan Border Security Force officials.

If you remember, after Pakistan took action against the Balochistan Liberation Army and other elements inside the province, the Indian external affairs ministry was quick to issue an unprecedented statement (see story below) in December 2005; their strategic writers have started focusing on Balochistan in their articles. This does not bode well for peace and stability in the region. I have no doubt that this will backfire on India.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

**Foreign intelligence agencies behind Balochistan situation: Justice Javed Iqbal – The Express Tribune

QUETTA: Justice (retd) Javed Iqbal, head of judicial commission formed for the recovery of missing persons, on Saturday held foreign intelligence agencies responsible for the deteriorating situation of Balochistan, claiming that there was concrete evidence against them.**Addressing a news conference at the Civil Secretariat in Quetta, Justice Iqbal said that foreign intelligence agencies wanted to deteriorate the situation of Balochistan in order to destabilise Pakistan.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Why was Nazir killed? TTP and US Happy! Pakistan piqued! | Rupee News

Nazir, has been killed by a US drone strike. Nazir was based in the border areas of South Waziristan, was a a key figure in the ‘Good Taliban’ group– militants which have truce arrangements with Pakistan’s military and government.
CIA Drone Strikes in Pakistan 2004–2013
Total US strikes: 358
Obama strikes: 306
Total reported killed: 2,613-3,422
Civilians reported killed: 473-889
Children reported killed: 176
Total reported injured: 1,259-1,417

When Mullah Nazir survived a suicide attack he and his tribe the Ahmedzai Wazir tribe decided to expel all Mehsud tribesmen from South Waziristan by December 5. The inter-tribal feud helped the Pakistanis which are facing incessant attacks from the TTP. The expulsion order included all loyalists to the TTP led by Hakeemullah Mehsud. It is interesting to note that a drone has now eliminated him –allowing the TTP to stay and grow, forcing the Pakistani army to build new relationships.
The US has intervened in the tribal feud on the side of the anti-Pakistani leaders.“The problem created in South Waziristan is a tribal feud between the Ahmedzai Wazir and Mehsud clans which would be settled in accordance with the tribal customs.” TTP spokesman Hakeemullah Mehsud

The murder of Nazir avenges the July 5, 2012 elimination of the TTP commander Wali Muhammad Yargulkhel a colleague of TTPs Hakeemullah Mehsud who was also the younger brother of Nek Muhammad Yargulkhel.
“I don’t know what the US was thinking when they decided to hit Mullah Nazir because why would you make things difficult for your most important ally [Pakistan] in the region? Saifullah Khan Mehsud, executive director of the prominent Islamabad based think-thank the FATA Research Centre.
The US sees no difference between any of the groups and don’t really care if the militant is attacking Pakistan or not. In fact militants who attack Pakistan are not usually targeted by US drones. It is US policy to degrade Pakistani assets and constantly create chaos in [WANA](Google Maps (Wana%2C%20Pakistan)&t=h), FATA and Pakistan, so that the post-US Afghanistan can be manufactured in their image. Pakistan on the other hand does not want a hostile power in Kabul. The killing of Nazir is part of the chess game played by the US intelligence forces.
Every few weeks we hear of a Taliban commander that has been killed. US, Pakistani, domestic and foreign news services proclaim the death “verified”. A few weeks later the supposedly “dead” militant re-emerges casting doubt on the credibility of governmental, intelligence and military sources.

Rupee News has come to the conclusion, that US, UK, Pakistani and other intelligence sources don’t have a clue into the inner workings of the militant organizations, who must laugh over the death of their leaders.
The Pakistani establishment has worked hard to maintain a crucial strategic balance in the Waziristan region by forging peace with three of the region’s four major militant factions. Nazir was a target of the TTP, and that terror organization should be happy –what the TTP could not do, the drones were able to accomplish.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Happy now with some links provided as requested? I doubt it. Whats the next line now?

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

This be a trick question?

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

A few things:

1) It would be nice to have some impartial, credible sources. Perhaps US news agencies wouldn't report on this but surely Al-Jazeera or RT would. The links you provided, especially the last one, seem a little shady.

2) All of your links involve people claiming things, just like the US claims that drone strikes don't kill civilians, but nowhere does it list journalists who have actually investigated this issue. Javed Iqbal claims that there is "concrete evidence". Great, so where is it?

3) Even if India and the US are involved, there are multiple reports, including those from Wikileaks, that suggest that the ISI has previously helped the Taliban. Why is it such stretch to think that they would continue to support them?

It's very possible that multiple groups with different agendas are supporting the Taliban, including groups within the Pakistani government and the ISI. And the one thing all of this proves is the government's ineptitude in securing the country. Even if Norway is funding the TTP, the army should be able to deal with threats to the country. The fact that they aren't suggests either ineptitude, in which case we may as well call it quits, or an unwillingness to do so, which, like people keep stressing, suggests that people in the Pakistani government are supporting terrorists.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

I knew that was coming…why am I not surprised? first we don’t believe in circumstantial evidence provide us with links. Now that I have provided some links the ground shifts to we don’t like the links.
Anyway here is another link:

CIA

CIA’s brand of Taliban now come with tattoos

December 18, 2012 .

Zaki Khalid
The image in the article highlights what we’ve been saying all along that the so-called “Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan” (TTP) is actually a poor, distorted duplicate of the Afghan Taliban.
As I pointed out in one of my articles, these militants are local recruits, even though their handlers are sitting in the confines of their smoothly-tiled executive rooms at Langley. But in most other cases however, they can turn out to be foreigners. I ask you a simple question, readers, that if Jewish American Adam Pearlman alias ‘Adam Yahya Gadahn‘ was successful in presenting himself as an Arab militant, why is it not possible that others can follow his example?
You see, these clandestine wars involving intelligence agencies vying to take the lead is an absolutely complex, dirty game. Their ulterior motive is manipulation of geopolitics which involve both tactical and strategic plans. Latter includes the attack on Peshawar airport. Fortunately for the armed forces, they foiled the attempt as they faced during the attack on Minhas Airbase, Kamra which was carried out by Afghan commando battalions under the command of Joseph Votel. Tactical attacks include those in which the young Malala was unknowingly used.
So while looking at the image, I was not surprised. In the past, especially during the Mehran base attack in Karachi, media persons were not allowed to take pictures considering the intense amount of international pressure on Pakistan Army. Today, there seems to be a new footing. Tattoos such as the one above are seen on many army soldiers around the world especially those of the US and UK. In the US Army, the Marine Corps is known for having soldiers who have similar tattoos:
Such tattoos, I understand, are not uncommon. America’s entire West Coast is renowned for its custom tattoo paint shops littered across California. But what I cannot believe is that some American soldier will tie a suicide vest and get ready to blow himself up. This is where, in realistic terms, our previous reporting is confirmed that these militants are foreigners who are very cheap mercenaries-for-hire. These include Tajiks, Gorkhas and Uzbeks. In fact, intelligence estimates in Pakistan argued that Uzbeks are the most preferred recruits for Western intelligence agencies (MI6, CIA, BND). One officer was even quoted as saying that recruits can literally be “bought” for as low as $300 only!
In Central Asia and Caucasus regions, a horde of undercover ‘Lawrences of Asia‘ roam about in search of trainees who are recruited for the infamous Qaeda, who spreads terror in guise of Muslims and who are jointly controlled and tasked by intelligence agencies of 3 major countries: The US, Her Majesty’s Secret Service, France and of course, the illegitimate Zionist state of Israel.
The US uses agents against MI6?s interests, sometimes vice versa. But when it comes to highly critical geopolitical undertakings, where Pakistan, Iran and Syria top the list, they all unite for a common cause. In our particular case, Pakistan’s nuclear arsenals are akin to a pot of honey around which these swarm of flies are always buzzing around.
There are two possibilities: Either that militant pictured above is a US Marine who was dressed like a TTP operative or, it could be the usual situation in which Afghans/Uzbeks are employed. The former assumption is highly improbable and to an extent, far-fetched. A more plausible case could be that the recruit was a convert from Europe as most Germans have infiltrated in the past too.
But what is really mind-boggling is the tattoo. In Islam, the Prophet (peace be upon him) has cursed the one who does tattooing on his body (they are haram i.e. strictly prohibited). Muslim men, especially those who claim to be doing jihad, are not supposed to have such paintings on them since they cause problems for offering regular prayers. The question here arises, why did self-proclaimed warriors of Islam adorn tattoos on their body and that too, of a skull? Are Hakeeullah’s boys inspired by the Ghost Rider?
Anyhow, I will not be going into speculation here. I avoid such things which are signature of our sensationalist, corporate media. I am though, openly saying that I have never seen such a thing on any captured militant. Not as far as declassified information is concerned.
This reminds me of an earlier picture from about 4 years back in which a militant killed in Swat region was found to be uncircumcised.
Again, Islamic Law makes it clear that all males are supposed to be circumcised in order to uphold the tradition on following what Abraham (peace be upon him) did.
Do you know what’s the funny aspect to all this? Just before this image got released, the TTP spokesperson claimed responsibility for the attacks. What a dumb nut I must say, now that the photo’s released, their beliefs and practices have laid themselves bare. They have, in haste, confirmed adherence to things which have no association with Islam whatsoever. These savages in the past used to blame all their heinous attacks on unseen “Blackwater agents”, later they started acknowledging high-profile attacks since it created a great impact. Today, they just hammered down on their own feet. They could have attempted to gain public sympathy by saying “this is the work of devil America” but instead they endorsed it and now find this picture spreading around in the media and online.
But you see, while this is indeed the work of the US military establishment, the people of Pakistan will at no cost forgive or forget these local/foreign proxies and blood-thirsty hounds who use terror to impose their radical beliefs, who slaughter innocent men, women and children. Pakistanis will and should not discount punishment and accountability of our own sell-outs who joined their ranks.
These militants have been described as the Khawarij “outcasts, dogs of hell” according to Islam. They are the same heretics who attacked the Sacred Mosque in Makkah in 1979 claiming to be upholders of Islamic Law. Today, across Pakistan, these stooges are carrying out orders issued from their masters in the US, UK and Israel. –Veterans Today

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

no thats not what was said. its unfortunate but i think you are acting blind

however its interesting that you do not attach a moral weight to pakistans involvement neither with foreign agencies nor its general mercenary role.

youve been looking to link ttp with foreign agencies, if proved, what would that imply for you?

i think you are preparing for another round of zulm that you are going to exact on the tribal people

arshad, do you really think being on the same side as all these people who are againt the tribal islamic students is a good thing? the worst israelli, american, indian, iranian on here is united on the wish to harm the tribal people who will not submit to these lots supremacy

i was very disappointed with your reply to my last post

for you to know that pakistan went into the area and rained military assaults on the people, including targeting exclusively kids (to cut future recruits?) and now for you to call for the total elimination of these people, who were loyal pak soldiers, a retaliation which was born as a result of zulm inflicted upon them by the combined will of the worlds biggest powers but conducted by pakistan.

to know, for these reasons, an ex COAS wouldnt even call them ‘militants’

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

regarding tattoos, i was wondering the same as everyone else here, but then on another site i came across further pictures. on them the message was clear. they are using tattoos to convey a message about the masters of pak army, basically saying fighting for the US is fighting for the devil.

regarding Mullah Nazir, he once gave an interview years ago, he isnt far in position from those considered ttp. he talked about fighting pak army, and his preference that he would like to avoid it. the years of his alliance, during the most active of ttp periods is proof the difference wasnt effecting them too much

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

What if the Masters of Pakistan army and TTP are the same?

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

then they are equal, in that aspect

but its not true

im really amused by pakistanis knowing the well known realities of pak army and government and then looking, searching, microscoping ttp to find the same. i think of it as ''pakistan is too faulty to hold to any standards but if i find the mismatched snicker wearing people doing it, i'll hate them even more then i hate them already''

absolute genius. it kinda proves pak army and government actually does represent this section of the pakistani people well, and always have done during the years, of munafiqat, they were telling the tribal of their brotherhood

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

well i am convinced. shardmanny’s english has always been too good for a pakistani. you cunning uncircumcized tattooed indian agent you. :hug:

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The government or military has not provided any proof for any foreign involvement that's why I won't indulge into this matter. If US is supporting TTP it won't be anything new they have tested the same in Iraq to quell the uprising against them by raising militias who started killing people indiscriminately hence polluting the movement.