Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Um, no. I'm saying that the army and the government needs to bring rogue elements within their bureaucracy under control. If the army's official position is that the TTP are a threat, then anyone helping the TTP needs to be brought under control. That's not a war, that's common sense.

Let me break it down easily for you:

1) cut off TTP's resources, i.e. people in the army and government who help them

2) negotiate with the TTP, and attack them where appropriate

How do you get the government to act like this? The population has to be willing to speak as a unified voice. When half the population thinks the TTP is doing the right thing, and Mullahs are spreading conspiracy theories and making excuses for why the Taliban would never act in a violent manner, then the government has no mandate to prosecute corruption.

Before you insult me, try to understand what I'm actually saying.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

the point is if half the population are against your plans, the mullahs, of Islamic republic, are spreading conspiracy theories then perhaps, and its only an idea, that you would be better suited to a community elsewhere

queer: im a blonde, blue eyed, 6ft swede

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Most people are uninformed, and whatever their political and religious allegiances, want the violence to stop. It starts with conversations like this one.

Half the US was once in favour of slavery, this doesn't mean you give up on the whole thing.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Well said, I am sure even those spreading conspiracy theories are also fed up with the violence. It has done no favour to us.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

in america you have to sing or box your way out of slavery, so yeah they created an avenue, having revelled in open slavery. the needs of the system changed.

but we respect people, right? so who is going to represent half of pakistan, the mullahs, the muslims? do you represent us? no because you cant stand infront of america and say no. you agree with them so you should vacate our political sphere

you can talk about attacks and negotiations, but what you dont understand is this is a two way street

any number of those from, in your words, half of pakistan can standup and match you for aggression. and you have told us that you wish to 'cleanse' pakistan, perhaps you or your ideollogy might get cleansed first.

yes we'd rather have less dramatic solutions and risks for our problems, then what you have suggested. if the pov of half of pakistan or even a lesser percentage causes the risks to rise to such levels, then you should by western standards stand down. thats why i feel you are better suited to serving solutions for other communities of the world.

46

Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

What kind evidence would be good for you? How about evidence of TTP terrorists chopping of policeman's head on video? Would that be good enough for you?

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

**“I don’t think that a devoted mujahid could be involved in such things,” said Hekmatyar, accusing ‘foreign intelligence agencies’ of being involved in such attacks.

**Thats the evidence?

All this shows is that Hekmetyar, a terrorist himself, is just about as delusional and paranoid as many Pakistanis are. Of course, no real MUJAHID would ever do what the TTP do! What a load of horse sh2t.

Typical Bull from the hyper religious. They can never admit to any wrong commited by other beards. One of the Talibaboons could come slap them across the face, and they would still accuse the "foreign agencies." Whatever the hell that means.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Are you kidding me? How hard is it to slap a bomb on ten year old and send him of to be killed?

Where is the sophistication in that?

The beards have been perfecting their bomb making capacity since god only knows how long. By now they must be rather good at it. And where did they get this sophistication in making bombs? Well they have had a lot of funding to figure it out. Recall the Saudis and the CIA once supported them, as did the Pakistani state. These terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda are anything but poor. Look how much OBL was worth.

Secondly, modern warfare involves tank, aircraft, and enemy who is easy to locate. Super Forces are not going to be able to counter a guerrilla force that hides under a rock and melds into the local populous. Modern armies arent magical. They cant simply point a gun in the air, pull the trigger in washington, and magically hit a Taliban between the eyes hiding in a cave in Waziristan.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

It is no point hiding behind show me evidence that TTP is backed by foreign agencies as an excuse to deny the foreign backing. I could also ask show me evidence that TTP is not backed by foreign agencies.

I am not privy to evidence and those that are privy and choose to remain silent for their reasons should inform the public, as the public has the right to know who is attacking their country. I have already mentioned possible reasons for this silence. Now I have a mind and there is a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest that TTP is being backed by foreign agencies, I could give you 101 reasons for my belief. It would not be the first time that foreign agencies have used groups to further their own agendas and it will not be the last. Even now groups are being sponsored in Syria by foreign agencies. Even in Pakistan before the breakup of East Pakistan groups were created and aided.

50

Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

and do the TTP know they are being run by foreign agencies? i mean.. its hard to imagine people willingly becoming suicide bombers to suit some random political or religious agenda that isn't theirs.

secondly, how are the foreign agencies able to easily harness locals, train and weaponize them in an area that the native pakistani army cannot even walk into? logistically how is this even possible?

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

The foot soldiers dont know that they are being used by foreign agencies but are brainwashed into believing that they are fighting for a cause.

All you have to do is buy a religious leader or a tribal leader and keep throwing money at him and the rest is easy. There are plenty of them that are happy to sell themselves for the right price. It is no secret that agencies have people inside even extremist organisations.

52

Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

so who are the religious or tribal leaders that have been bought? and do they have swiss bank accounts etc? coz the pics i have seen, people like lynchpin mehsud are wearing rags and old mismatched sneakers.

not exactly the kind to want or know what to do with money.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Once you have established a group through proxies you can make any tom, dick or harriet its so called leader. They enjoy their fame for 15 minutes and eventually will be disposed of either by the opponent or by yourself when they are no longer needed or likely to compromise the group. Therefore the drones can come in handy.

Even if these guys have swiss accounts they have to mix in with their groups and not stand out.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

the whole thing is pretty straightforward so if your still confused people may come out and tell you what you want to hear. afterall pakistan whilst enjoying relative normality still wants patriotic jawaans

pakistan for its own part was given a choice fight america or fight taliban. the choice is admittedly tough because we werent prepared for it

musharraf became busharraf, pakistan became involved in the fight against tta

then they said do more so ttp was born

the difference between tta and ttp is the direction of their travel - kabul and islamabad. both kabul and Islamabad feel taliban should die away for convenience sake

some pakistanis think northern alliance is a ogre government whom tta have a right to kill but actually its in a similar position to pakistan. if you look closely you will even see a young bhutto familly, a shabaz, a nawaz, rehman malik in kabul

anyway, then they said do even more so ttp-punjab was born from ex army stock. i stopped following the news around this time

btw the foreign agency conspiracy is matched by the internal agency conspiracy
theres two types
a) internal attacks helps pk extrude more money from its own backers - wot partners. the phylosophy here is that pakistan is a begging nation
b) helps prolong pak involvement in WOT - kind of like antidote to the its previous promotion of holy war, keeps public from asking for anti wot policies

mirza aslam baig ex coas refused to call ttp ‘militants’ and said state soldiers have a moral obligation to be following only good orders

he KNOWS and is PRIVY to the evidence. he mentions pakistan broke its own treaty with FATA, he says pakistan killed about 700 people before badla started
watch from 3.40

pakistan is eastern alliance, same as northern alliance.

pakistan has been rewarded with alot of public gifts from the CIA. cia works for Mossad so i’d say pakistan has powerful friends and is riding high.

what would it prove if ttp was taking help from foreign agencies?

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

I think that what the General is saying is that Pakistan was provoked to attack the tribal areas at the behest of the US. There is a difference between terrorism and the tribals. These attacks by PA were used as a recruiting ground for creating militants that then were used against Pakistan. Basically that Pakistan fell into a well prepared trap with its own people being used by vested interests to attack it.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Show me evidence that YOU arent an agent of foreign agencies... Your circumstantial evidence is as convoluted and hyperbolic as any other conspiracy, which is why its probably highly unlikely.

Have you ever heard of Occam's razor? The simplest answer is usually the correct one. In this case, the simplest answer is that the TTP are nothing more then a bunch of terrorist goons, acting independently, under the cover of religious precepts, to establish a base of power through which they can extort and manipulate others and amass wealth... They are motivated by the very same thing that all humans who have tasted influence and power crave, more power and influence.

Foreign agencies are just a convenient means by which the minds of average Pakistanis like yourself can come to terms with the inherent contradictions thrown up by the likes of the TTP. Our mind craves simplicity and wants things to make sense. Thus we all have a concrete view of the world that the mind works over time in enforcing and reinforcing, regardless of how absurd or disconnected from reality it may be. When entities like the TTP challenge and chip away at that established order of the mind, the mind creates complex conspiracies and becomes paranoid. You see connections where there are none. Your "circumstantial" evidence is nothing more then an illusion created by your mind to reestablish your understanding of reality.

In this case perhaps, among other delusions, you may have difficulty coming to terms with the fact that those attacking and murdering your people are themselves 100 percent muslim, acting under the banner of Islam. So you create these conspiracy theories in your head, just Hekmatyar has, because it allows you to maintain you mental construct.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

You know I have also heard that some of these foot soldiers have had electronic devices inserted into their heads (which is why they wear turbans, to hide the attached antenna) through which the receive secret messages from the “agencies!” The agencies pretend to be angels whispering in their heads, but unbeknownst to the agencies, they themselves are being controlled by none other then… WAIT FOR IT! … THE GREY ALIENS!
But here;s the kicker, the agencies DONT know it! :shock:

Thanks for telling me about the religious leaders for sale. By the way, do you know of any? Do you see them now?

58

Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Funny how people accept the headlines of so and so leader of an outfit claiming responsibility BUT have a hard time believing that same person hasn't been bought out by enemies of the country.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

interesting that the liberals and the conservatives are convinced there is no foreign agency involved and these are self-motivated people working for their ideology. but the "moderates" are convinced that there is some hidden hand. i vunder why this is.

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Re: Pakistani Taleban: Run by foreign agencies

Why is it so hard to believe that people who, for all we know, always felt marginalized by mainstream Pakistani society would turn to violence to assert their independence? Why would the US back the Taliban, and then spend millions bombing them using drones, thereby generating bad publicity both domestically and abroad?

The simplest explanation is that the US wrongly believes that hill tribes pose a threat to them, and feel compelled to act because the Pakistani government isn't serious about dealing with this problem.