Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
^Exactly.
Many people here will not agree with me...but I am 100% convinced that all these guys (Inzimam and Co who resort to Allah-speak at the drop of the hat) are nothing more than religious show-offs. Yes, there is such a thing as religious snobbery. People suppose they are great and profound because they are so given to religion.....hence it has its snob-value. It is not enough anymore to worship your God in mind or through action....but you also have to let everybody else know about it. In the thought-provoking movie "The Big Kahuna" , Danny DeVito's character calls such people religious salesmen and rightly so.
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
F&B and Some1 …I don’t even know where to begin with you…
You are miles from the reasoning Inzi and Co uses the traditional Bismillah to begin their talk. It is as basic as a hindu making the traditional palms together “Namaste” with raised hands infront of the face.
For a muslim it is their basic duty to say the name of GOD Almighty before beginning. And just because a know nothing snob doesn’t like this or the “atmosphere” is intolerant, they shouldn’t stop doing it.
So just forget it. Go fish in some other pond:BiB:
You need serious
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
and as a counter argument, LEAVE IT TO THEM. Why are you bothered if they start with “Bismillah…” or not? This should not itch you if they are (as per your words) “showing off” their religion. I wonder how many ppl speak against Sardar’s wearing the turban on playing fields, Christians wearing the cross (and kissing it) after each goal they score, Danish Kaneria joining his hands and thanking Bhagwan and so on…
Lets leave the discussion to the English/Urdu of Pakistani team
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
about the basic duty, does a muslim have to say the name of GOD almighty before he talks to every person? like lets say inzi gets up in the morning and sees younis khan so before he talks to him he has to say Bismillah and then before he talks to another teammate and then the reporter outside? i have not seen it in practice by my muslim friends but then again they ignore a lot of other things from the quran
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
and as a counter argument, LEAVE IT TO THEM. Why are you bothered if they start with "Bismillah..." or not? This should not itch you if they are (as per your words) "showing off" their religion. I wonder how many ppl speak against Sardar's wearing the turban on playing fields, Christians wearing the cross (and kissing it) after each goal they score, Danish Kaneria joining his hands and thanking Bhagwan and so on....
Lets leave the discussion to the English/Urdu of Pakistani team
exactly.... those so called humane indians are taking full advantage of their reputation here, ... some1 and fair n balanced bhai, if You don't like us being proud of our religion and expressing it, then kindly mute your tv when u watch it, and mute yourself on the forum atleast on your hate remarks on religion cuz it can take very little time to get ugly, hence it could ruin the wc experience for many of us. I don't understand why it bothers you guys so much.
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
To all you guys above :
If it matters : F&B is a Muslim himself.
I dont think you guys understood one bit of what I meant. Let me just say this (with the hope that somebody will have enough common sense to understand) : Yes, its normal to thank God in your mind or through simple gestures (like touching the cross as someone said or even by kneeling down like Mohd Yousuf does) when you achieve something(eg score a century) ...but IT IS NOT NORMAL to thank God in out-of-context circumstances in front of an international audience everytime somebody asks you about your opinion on something like the state of the pitch, the team lineup, whether you are going to bat/bowl after the toss and such.
I have Muslim friends at work...how come I don't see them saying in meetings .."Bismillah-irrah-Man-Ir Rahim......First of all thanks to Allah that I completed the project on time". Are they less of a Muslim ? For the Cricketers, the ground is their work place.
btw, this is "common sense" we are talking about , not "religion". Whoever says that I am somehow insulting any religion here does not have a brain to understand what is being discussed. Lets get a little less sensitive and a little more smarter. That is all I ask.
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
and as a counter argument, LEAVE IT TO THEM. Why are you bothered if they start with "Bismillah..." or not? This should not itch you if they are (as per your words) "showing off" their religion. I wonder how many ppl speak against Sardar's wearing the turban on playing fields, Christians wearing the cross (and kissing it) after each goal they score, Danish Kaneria joining his hands and thanking Bhagwan and so on....
Lets leave the discussion to the English/Urdu of Pakistani team
DC and others. Yes they have right to say whatever the want. But here is the thing. Namaste is not equivalent to Bismillah. It is Salam. But thats besides point.. If Inzi or Waqar do same thing in their daily conversation then I would agree. Otherwise Its show off. If a friend or relatives meets Inzi and say 'Salam, Inzi, How are you' and if he replies " Bismillah hirrahmanir rahim.. I am fine'. Then I have no object. But I doubt this is how he does. Definilty I have not seen Waqar and Inzi doing this in their Interviews on TV. So why is this situation different. Sardar wear Turban all the time. Similarly Christian player wear their cross. Kissing cross or saying pray to God or Allah when in a moment of happiness is different thing and no one has objection to it. Objection is on wearing your relegion in your sleeve unnecessarily. This is just result of Mullah culture which has captured Muslim of sub continent. It is no different than recent surge neo-Hindu mentality in India. Yes..there is neo-muslim mentality too.
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
Yes, its normal to thank God in your mind or through simple gestures (like touching the cross as someone said or even by kneeling down like Mohd Yousuf does) when you achieve something(eg score a century) ...but IT IS NOT NORMAL to thank God in out-of-context circumstances in front of an international audience everytime somebody asks you about your opinion on something like the state of the pitch, the team lineup, whether you are going to bat/bowl after the toss and such.
You make a very good point here. I think the issue is n't whether to say bismillah but how and when to say it.
And I agree it's not normal (if your boss asks you about the status of your work or if your senior asks you about the progress of a patient) to start the conversation with bismillah, thanks to Allah. A short bismillah is enough but the way Inzi says it sometimes makes him look out of place and sounds like
a- he has just come from jhoomri tallaiyan or bhai phairoo
b- he's just saying it for the sake of it without putting any thought into what he's going to say next
AA please don't murder me for saying this but I feel that bismillah should be short and more importantly said in the proper context of the situation. Yousuf's ritual of kneeling down after scoring a hundred does look very proper (and I really mean it). I don't feel the same about the way Inzi starts every interview with that goofy/blank expression on his face. Like if someone asks you in a shopping mall 'mate what's the time now?' you should n't go ''bismillah (a long one), thanks to Allah, it's 10 minutes past 7!''
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
You make a very good point here. I think the issue is n't whether to say bismillah but how and when to say it.
i think you summed up the point nicely
some people got a little defensive, and i dont blame them, as anything to do with religion is taken sensitively, but i think some1 and f&b made some good points.
Yousuf's ritual of kneeling down after scoring a hundred does look very proper (and I really mean it). I don't feel the same about the way Inzi starts every interview with that goofy/blank expression on his face. Like if someone asks you in a shopping mall 'mate what's the time now?' you should n't go bismillah (a long one), thanks to Allah, it's 10 minutes past 7!
thats a good example of whats seems appropriate and what doesn't.
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
To all you guys above :
If it matters : F&B is a Muslim himself.
I dont think you guys understood one bit of what I meant. Let me just say this (with the hope that somebody will have enough common sense to understand) : Yes, its normal to thank God in your mind or through simple gestures (like touching the cross as someone said or even by kneeling down like Mohd Yousuf does) when you achieve something(eg score a century) ...but IT IS NOT NORMAL to thank God in out-of-context circumstances in front of an international audience everytime somebody asks you about your opinion on something like the state of the pitch, the team lineup, whether you are going to bat/bowl after the toss and such.
I have Muslim friends at work...how come I don't see them saying in meetings .."Bismillah-irrah-Man-Ir Rahim......First of all thanks to Allah that I completed the project on time". Are they less of a Muslim ? For the Cricketers, the ground is their work place.
btw, this is "common sense" we are talking about , not "religion". Whoever says that I am somehow insulting any religion here does not have a brain to understand what is being discussed. Lets get a little less sensitive and a little more smarter. That is all I ask.
and all i ask is, why does it bother so much? why spend all that energy on a non cricket issue? I like the way u mingle in with cricket side of discussions, but when u protest on the way our players express themselves, thats when it makes me doubt u guys. Please just stick to cricket yar, atleast on the KK forum.
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
^Au Contraire, it does not bother me at all...
In fact it gives me a reason to chuckle everytime Inzimam walks up to the presentation ceremony for an interview.
Many Pakistanis here have themselves made jokes about Inzimam's opening line. (but because I am an Indian , I am judged with a different yard-stick).
Anyways, I am happy to put the matter to rest. I did not start it. I just gave my opinion on what Inzi should say and some guppie came along and lectured me on religion.
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
Coming back to the boring topic of Pakistani players interviewing in Urdu, great idea. Whenever our dear guppies protested, got frustrated or otherwise complained about Inzi's pedestrian command over English (obviously I am using the word 'command' very very loosely here) and other famous bumblings of our other national cricket players, I had always said that they are cricket players and no part of their job description requires mastery over a foreign language. Its just that Pakistanis got fairly spoiled after Imran Khan and Wasim Akram, but the carnival was not gonna last forever. First with Miandad and his cute accent and now with Inzi we are finally at a full-stop point. Good thing our Board figured out the only logical solution.
And regarding all this fuss over Bismillah, lets see if the interpretor translates that too, or not. Most likely not. I think its a tableeghi jamaat habit picked up by Inzi (courtesy Saeed et al).
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
Coming back to the boring topic of Pakistani players interviewing in Urdu, great idea. Whenever our dear guppies protested, got frustrated or otherwise complained about Inzi's pedestrian command over English and other famous bumblings of our other national cricket players, I had always said that they are cricket players and no part of their job description requires mastery over a foreign language. Its just that Pakistanis got fairly spoiled after Imran Khan and Wasim Akram, but the carnival was not gonna last forever. First with Miandad and his cute accent and now with Inzi we are finally at a full-stop point. Good thing our Board figured out the only logical solution.
And regarding all this fuss over Bismillah, lets see if the interpretor translates that too, or not. Most likely not. I think its a **tableeghi **jamaat habit picked up by Inzi (courtesy Saeed et al).
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
Some1, this might be a bit different for others, but for muslims their religion is not part of life, but their life is part of their religion. Saying Bismillah before starting anything or starting to talk is just fine. Your other suggestion is good, the pardon my english part. That could fit in well after the Bismillah.
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
Just to add something extra to the topic of mentioning "Bismillah...." during match ceremony. In Islam, saying Bismillah is required of every muslim before performing any sort of tasks, whether its before eating, drinking, playing cricket etc. Sadly not many muslims during modern times do that. According to many hadiths and Quran, a muslim needs to mention & praise Allah (SWT) in any form at all times.
I can understand why many non-muslims think it is unneccesary to say "Bismillah..." during the match ceremony, but for a strong practicing muslim, mentioning the name of Allah (SWT) in any form is highly usual.
F&B, you have no right to judge if Inzimam or any other Pakistani player is a good muslim or not, only Allah (SWT) knows best.
Just my 2 cents.
Re: The Pakistani players will express themselves in Urdu
Just to add something extra to the topic of mentioning "Bismillah...." during match ceremony. In Islam, saying Bismillah is required of every muslim before performing any sort of tasks, whether its before eating, drinking, playing cricket etc. Sadly not many muslims during modern times do that. According to many hadiths and Quran, a muslim needs to mention & praise Allah (SWT) in any form at all times.
I can understand why many non-muslims think it is unneccesary to say "Bismillah..." during the match ceremony, but for a strong practicing muslim, mentioning the name of Allah (SWT) in any form is highly usual.
F&B, you have no right to judge if Inzimam or any other Pakistani player is a good muslim or not, only Allah (SWT) knows best.
Just my 2 cents.
So how many times when you talk to your boss or friends you start with 'Bismillah Hir rahmanir rahin..maine apna kaam khatam kar liya'...
Yes..Muslim are supposed to say Bismillah but you can always say that in your heart.. Also should I say it before each sentence when I speak or just when the conversation starts.. Who decided what is starting point..When I meet someone it is starting point of conversation.. But then each when we open our mouth then we start a new sentence... where is the line? :D
