When I first came to North America as an immigrant, I met a good looking fair guy and learnt that he was a Pakistani. After further interaction I was delighted to know that he was a Hindu. This was my first ever meeting with a Pakistani Hindu guy. I got curious and wanted to know more about him.
I introduced myself as an Indian muslim and asked him whether he felt discriminated in Pakistan because of his religion. His reply was contrary to my expectation. He said that he never felt discriminated while I was watching him with total disbelief. So what the Indian media say about Hindus in Pakistan or Pakistani media about muslims in India is always blown out of proportion. Minorities do face problems but the media often blow it out of proportion.
well there are'nt too many of them in Pakistan thats why they can go un noticed.I know a few hindus living here,they are well established and don;t face any problems here.This certainly is not true of shiahs living in Pakistan,they have had to face many problems recently,a lot of them have fled fearing for their lives and are now seeking asylum in different countries.
There are lots and lots of hindus in Sindh. A group of Sindh Medical College students came to our hostel and most of them were, Manoj, Prabharkar, Sanjey, Mukeesh etc.
As being from minority group in India, I can understand and appreciate shia muslim's problems in Pakistan. Even though I am a sunni muslim but I have full sympathies with shia muslims in Pakistan. Bombing shia muslim's mosque doesn't speak well of Sunni majority given the fact that the father of Pakistan himself was a shia muslim.
It would be a great delight to see good Hindu representation in Pakistan since this would weaken the Hindu fanatics in India. Few years ago there was a Hindu guy in Pakistani cricket team. I wish this should become a regular thing.
Even if it is a genuine post (which I very much doubt because it is simply too tailormade) truth us that Pakistan has cleared declared to be an Islamic Republic and so any minority by necessity is second class. Why would anyone from such minority put up with that? Very few do and most have left.
Which reminds me to hesitate a bit further - Islamic Republic? Are we Islamic or Repulic today? NO, military is running the show and religion is splintered and running the politics of the military. bummer.
I met a Pakistani Hindu and had a chat with him for half an hour in Toronto, a couple of years ago. I am just sharing one of my life experiences. If you call it fake then I cannot help it.
Which reminds me to hesitate a bit further - Islamic Republic? Are we Islamic or Repulic today? NO, military is running the show and religion is splintered and running the politics of the military. bummer.
Pakistan has declared itself as an Islamic state but it has not distroyed the religious places of minorities. It has always protected the religious places of Sikhs despite controversies. Hindus and other minorities have reservation in Pakistani parliament. If you call it second class treatment then in India, Hindu fanatics destroyed muslim religious places just like the Taliban did in Afghanistan. So with such definition muslims too would be viewed as second class citizen in India.
But in reality, Hindu and Parsi minority in Pakistan ( I don't know about Shia and Ahmadiya) don't face discrimination.
Pakistan has 97% muslims, 1% Hindus, 1% christians and rest others. In India there are 82% Hindus, 13% muslims, 2% Christians, 2% Sikhs and rest others. The end result is that the treatment of minorities in Pakistan and India is same.
But in reality, Hindu and Parsi minority in Pakistan ( I don't know about Shia and Ahmadiya) don't face discrimination.
Pakistan has 97% muslims, 1% Hindus, 1% christians and rest others. In India there are 82% Hindus, 13% muslims, 2% Christians, 2% Sikhs and rest others. The end result is that the treatment of minorities in Pakistan and India is same.
Brother it may offend U, but ur views are very much biased. Can u equate freedom given to muslims In India to freedom given to hindus in Pakistan? U talk of reservation to hindus in pakistani parliament, do hindus have same political freedom as muslims have in India??? are their reservation for hindu constituency in pakisstan or they can fight election from any constituency as muslims can do in India???? Can a Ram Pradad contest election with Shaukat Ajeez in Pakistan just like a Mohammad Ajmal can contest election with Manmohan Singh????? Brother, U are forgetting that no muslim country give equal rights to its minorities coz its anti Islamic. They can do anti islamic things for their lust and greed only, whlile being anti Islamic for sake of humanity cant be in their mind, coz they have faoundation of their country on hatred. this is very easy to understand if u have an unbiased mindset.
Brother, is there as much religious freedom for hindus in Pakistan as muslims enjoy in India??? I m waiting for ur answer so that we can carry forward this discussion and come to an agreement whether both communities have same rights and freedom in their respective countries.
But in reality, Hindu and Parsi minority in Pakistan ( I don't know about Shia and Ahmadiya) don't face discrimination.
Pakistan has 97% muslims, 1% Hindus, 1% christians and rest others. In India there are 82% Hindus, 13% muslims, 2% Christians, 2% Sikhs and rest others. The end result is that the treatment of minorities in Pakistan and India is same.
Do you know Sal35, the minorities in pakistan are allowed to vote in the general election for general seats. Dont you hear the news article about the women being hijacked and converted forcefully. Can u imagine such things happening in India. So u r equating indian govt to Taleban, wow thats quite a nice comparison. Did Indian forces or Indian govt order bringing down the mosque. U r comparing highly corrupt and religiously extremic taleban who have fed with opium and deals with drug loards with Indian govt who were trying to prevent the mosque to go down. Did the hindu extremist manage to build the temple that they planned. There was already a temple inside the mosque(or may be around it) before it went down. Thats very patriotic of u Sal.
Brother, is there as much religious freedom for hindus in Pakistan as muslims enjoy in India??? I m waiting for ur answer so that we can carry forward this discussion and come to an agreement whether both communities have same rights and freedom in their respective countries.
Regards
I agree with you that in Pakistan, the minorities don't enjoy the political freedom. But they seem to have equal opportunities in all other aspects. In India, minorities do enjoy the political freedom and freedom of expression but this privilage comes with a price. Let me define what this price is by taking my own example.
I am quite honestly describing my life experiences as a typical Indian muslim.
After 1984 riots against Sikhs in which thousands of Sikhs were pulled from the trains and massacred by the Hindu mob all across India, my father became extremely worried and developed a sense of insecurity till the end. As a young boy whenever I used to board the train alone, he would advise me repeatedly not to reveal my muslim identity to strangers.
My spouse carries our family name MEMON as her last name. Recently when we traveled by train with a reserved ticket then I was stunned to find a police party demanding to investigate our identity. They wanted to know whether we had any connection with those responsible for 1993 Bomb blast. Then I showed my identity card as a central govt officer and avoided any possible harrasment.
I had gone to Hyderabad for a vacation along with my spouse and it happened to be 14th August. During 14th August midnight my hotel room was knocked by the police and then again I used my central govt officer identity to avoid another possible harrasment. Later I learnt that Hyderabad police had carried out surprise checks on all the hotels to prevent any possible attack by Kashmiri militants.
When I decided to take the newly started international flight to go to Canada from Hyderabad in Feb 2005 then the custom officer suspected me to be a Pakistani because of my north Indian look and muslim name and denied me to board the flight until he fully investigated my identity. At that point I called Lufthansa staff since I had four times boarded the international flight by Lufthansa in the last three years and they had rewarded me by converting my economy class into business class for the current flight. Lufthansa staff tried their best to convince the custom officer but he was not listening and using bad language against Pakistan and cursing Laloo, Mulayam and Paswan. Then I opened my big suitcase and showed my identity as a former Central govt officer and threatened to make a complaint to the external ministry for the harrasment. This worked and he allowed me to board the flight at the last minute.
But the above unpleasant situation is greatly overshadowed by the following facts:
I never faced any discrimination during my schooling, college and university education and during my job hunt. I am indeed grateful to the majority of Hindu liberals for retaining the secular identity of India and for providing equal opportunities to minorities.
In India no custom officer will talk this way/\/\/\/\
You can never be sure, cant one custom officer be biased against muslims in this country of one billion people. Hell, no matter how tolerant I try to be or behave, I also sometimes get biased against muslims (I do not want to discuss if that's just or not).
As sal35 has said that he is mentioning the above incidents honestly, there's no point in arguing about the veracity of these incidents. Why would he cite the above incidents before giving credit to the hindu majority for maintaining the secularity of the country.
By labeling all the muslims as pakistanis or anti indians, the hindu extremists push the patriotic muslims to a corner. I have tried imaging several times that I how I would feel if I was a patriotic muslim living in India. It's human nature that if some outsider (hindu extremists) casts blame on your religion/society, you get offended and unintentionally get alienated from the main stream.
But in reality, Hindu and Parsi minority in Pakistan ( I don't know about Shia and Ahmadiya) don't face discrimination.
Pakistan has 97% muslims, 1% Hindus, 1% christians and rest others. In India there are 82% Hindus, 13% muslims, 2% Christians, 2% Sikhs and rest others. The end result is that the treatment of minorities in Pakistan and India is same.
You can never be sure, cant one custom officer be biased against muslims in this country of one billion people. Hell, no matter how tolerant I try to be or behave, I also sometimes get biased against muslims (I do not want to discuss if that's just or not).
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In India govt officials are very concious of the fact to not criticise political leaders in public. That too leaders like laloo and mulayam. I think you should know better.
I am talking of one person out of thousands of officers and in the above mentioned incident the officer was not in public, he was talking to sal35.
The same way a prime minister should be very consicious of not to get into any scandal, and I think you know what has happened with quite a few of our prime ministers.
I am quite honestly describing my life experiences as a typical Indian muslim.
After 1984 riots against Sikhs in which thousands of Sikhs were pulled from the trains and massacred by the Hindu mob all across India, my father became extremely worried and developed a sense of insecurity till the end. As a young boy whenever I used to board the train alone, he would advise me repeatedly not to reveal my muslim identity to strangers.
My spouse carries our family name MEMON as her last name. Recently when we traveled by train with a reserved ticket then I was stunned to find a police party demanding to investigate our identity. They wanted to know whether we had any connection with those responsible for 1993 Bomb blast. Then I showed my identity card as a central govt officer and avoided any possible harrasment.
I had gone to Hyderabad for a vacation along with my spouse and it happened to be 14th August. During 14th August midnight my hotel room was knocked by the police and then again I used my central govt officer identity to avoid another possible harrasment. Later I learnt that Hyderabad police had carried out surprise checks on all the hotels to prevent any possible attack by Kashmiri militants.
When I decided to take the newly started international flight to go to Canada from Hyderabad in Feb 2005 then the custom officer suspected me to be a Pakistani because of my north Indian look and muslim name and denied me to board the flight until he fully investigated my identity. At that point I called Lufthansa staff since I had four times boarded the international flight by Lufthansa in the last three years and they had rewarded me by converting my economy class into business class for the current flight. Lufthansa staff tried their best to convince the custom officer but he was not listening and using bad language against Pakistan and cursing Laloo, Mulayam and Paswan. Then I opened my big suitcase and showed my identity as a former Central govt officer and threatened to make a complaint to the external ministry for the harrasment. This worked and he allowed me to board the flight at the last minute.
But the above unpleasant situation is greatly overshadowed by the following facts:
I never faced any discrimination during my schooling, college and university education and during my job hunt. I am indeed grateful to the majority of Hindu liberals for retaining the secular identity of India and for providing equal opportunities to minorities.
Thanks for ur response brother.
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I agree with you that in Pakistan, the minorities don't enjoy the political freedom. But they seem to have equal opportunities in all other aspects
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Bro it is very much unlikely that hindus have equal opportunities in pakistan after being denied religious and political freedom there, after all there are more too many funadamentalist elements in pakistan to deny them their rights, and above all when shais can face discrimination in their own islamic country, than hindus should not complain about being discriminated.
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In India, minorities do enjoy the political freedom and freedom of expression but this privilage comes with a price. Let me define what this price is by taking my own example.
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Brother I feel sorry by reading ur horrifying experience, but here something shold be kept in mind. I agree that muslims have to pay a heavy price for their freedom in this country, but plz think honestly who is responsible for this price being paid? Arnt they ur own muslim bretherns who are bringing all the bad name to this great religion and misiries for majority of innocent muslims like urself?
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1. After 1984 riots against Sikhs in which thousands of Sikhs were pulled from the trains and massacred by the Hindu mob all across India, my father became extremely worried and developed a sense of insecurity till the end. As a young boy whenever I used to board the train alone, he would advise me repeatedly not to reveal my muslim identity to strangers.
My spouse carries our family name MEMON as her last name. Recently when we traveled by train with a reserved ticket then I was stunned to find a police party demanding to investigate our identity. They wanted to know whether we had any connection with those responsible for 1993 Bomb blast. Then I showed my identity card as a central govt officer and avoided any possible harrasment.
I had gone to Hyderabad for a vacation along with my spouse and it happened to be 14th August. During 14th August midnight my hotel room was knocked by the police and then again I used my central govt officer identity to avoid another possible harrasment. Later I learnt that Hyderabad police had carried out surprise checks on all the hotels to prevent any possible attack by Kashmiri militants.
When I decided to take the newly started international flight to go to Canada from Hyderabad in Feb 2005 then the custom officer suspected me to be a Pakistani because of my north Indian look and muslim name and denied me to board the flight until he fully investigated my identity. At that point I called Lufthansa staff since I had four times boarded the international flight by Lufthansa in the last three years and they had rewarded me by converting my economy class into business class for the current flight. Lufthansa staff tried their best to convince the custom officer but he was not listening and using bad language against Pakistan and cursing Laloo, Mulayam and Paswan. Then I opened my big suitcase and showed my identity as a former Central govt officer and threatened to make a complaint to the external ministry for the harrasment. This worked and he allowed me to board the flight at the last minute.
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I can understand the pain u felt while undergoing such unpleasant situations. but again brother, who is responsible for all this?? offcourse that custom officer was a blot on hindus and humanity, but who gave him courage to act in such a manner?? why only muslim names come under scanner?? offcourse those officer who suspected ur spouse only for carrying her surname as Memon were guilty?? but were Memon brothers not guilty for bringing bad name on entire community????
Isnt it a fact that whenver we see someone with surname of Godse it reminds us of infamous Nathuram Godse who killed our beloved father of the nation??? yes we are guilty for this discrimination, but more guilty was Nathuram Godse, Now can u see a Godse in any political party?? no it has become a trademark of infamous Hindu Mashsabha, I hope U understand what I mean.
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I never faced any discrimination during my schooling, college and university education and during my job hunt. I am indeed grateful to the majority of Hindu liberals for retaining the secular identity of India and for providing equal opportunities to minorities
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Brother speaking for libral hindus I can assure U that muslims in this country are our own brothers and sisters, we know the fact that we have to co exist and bulid this nation, we have to wipe out the feeling of hatred for each other coz its biggest crime before ALLAH, to hate his beloved creation. We hindus are equally greatfull to muslims like U for treating us like their own brothers in every aspect of life and setting an example for the rest of the world. Roots of secularism are very very deep in this country...........One may envy us, but no one can comptete us in this aspect.