C’mon pal. Kya naataq hai yeh, Baji? If you truly believed in “to each their own,” you wouldn’t stereotype the Packistanian Peeples in the first place.
Seems to me that the only time you staunchly uphold the “to each his own” motto is when it comes to more admirable, and commendable, and noble, and naik, and achi achi, khoobsurat, rooh-ko-choo- janay-wali actions like sex outside of marriage and homosexuality. Tab to Baji you will grab your bailan and stand in the frontlines of such a jung screeching the “to eeech his own” naara at the top of your phaipray. But if a Packistaneee Woman doesn’t work…haaww haaaye..we just can’t let that go. Tauba tauba. Itni bhi fikar na kia karain Pakistani khwateen ki. :khatti:
How am I looking down on them, just inquiring about how career oriented are they and if not so much what might be the thought process. So in Canadians almost all working age women work or are students or unemployed looking for work. Participation rates for females are almost on par with males. So what does a girl do if she is on the bad end of 50 percent and gets divorced and is not financially independent?
East and the West are miles apart in most things. In the west, women have no other option than to work. Whereas in the east, the parents (guardian) usually take care of the women till they are married and after that the husband (guardian) does. Women have the option to work or not work unless circumstances are tough.
As for contributing to the household, in Islam(Pakistan is predominantly Muslim) , even if the woman is working, nobody has the right over what she earns.
If a woman gets divorced, her guardian is responsible for her financially. She can choose to start working if she wasn’t working previously. Anyone can start working at any time they want, as long as they don’t expect to be a CEO on day one.
So I guess you have answered my question. Here women are expected to work same as guys, after 18 there is no guardian for them and they don’t rely on men in any shape to support them. They make their own decisions and are financially, emotionally and physically independent. My wife was talking to this female area manager and she has travelled to 34 countries. Why would women who are strong and capable and in many cases smarter than men need a guardian. We as parents don’t live forever so when we die and the hubby was abusive and now maybe she has a child so who will be the guardian?
Exactly. In the name of feminism, the west took away the freedom to choose whether to work or not from the women. Whereas the East still gives that freedom. As for the guardian part, having a guardian doesn’t make women any less smarter than men. It’s simply a matter of perspective.
Having a guardian simply ensures her security. It’s a privilege and makes her no less than a man.
I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to islam, but I think after the parents death, the paternal uncle is the legal guardian.
PS1: I think you choose extremes rather than being moderate and acceptable.
PS2: In this regard, I’m glad I’m from the east.
Wages have not kept up with inflation here so it really is a necessity that both partners work, women participation rate has gone up from 25 percent to around 87 percent. No one forces anyone to work, there are millions on welfare here. So women have guardians there and also the abuse rates reported are over 80 percent so I am not sure if guardianship or dependence is working out that well. We know this family, mom is a muslim from India, hubby from Pak, mom makes twice as much compared to hubby but hubby who is a short weak man still bosses her around as he is religious and he thinks of himself as the guardian. Please dont feel bad for the western girls they are having a time of their life and enjoying their work, their income and their life. My client Kathy makes 100k a year, no male was involved in her buying decision and she travels every year, runs, exercises goes out with friends and seems to love her life.
Guardianship in itself is not bad. If someone abuses that, then it’s wrong and punish worthy. It’s like saying a knife is bad because it kills people whereas the purpose of the knife isn’t to kill. Of course I don’t feel bad for the western girls. I truly believe in, to each his own. I simply am glad I am from the East.
A guardian isn’t always a hurdle in traveling. My desi friend has a guardian, yet made two trips to Europe last year, without her guardian. I mention this because you’ve mentioned traveling in the above two posts even though I don’t get the relevance of traveling and being career-oriented or not.
This is exactly what a guardian is supposed to do; Provide for the one under their guardianship because they are entitled to it. Instead of the welfare doing it, it’s the duty of the guardian.
I rest my case. I hope now you see where I’m coming from. If you can’t, then I’m sure there’s nothing more I can say to help you view it any different.
The laws are very strict here and a mere phone call elicits a very forceful response from the law enforcements and many times these phone calls are made in a spirit of vengeance or settling scores, the definitions of abuse here are different, just criticising her spending too much money is considered abuse here. If she doesn’t want to cook or clean and you ask her to then that is also abuse. In a couple of decades here I have not personally come across any female who got a beating from her husband or father. I know of several immigrants here who got arrested for beating their wives. Since you have not experienced the western life so you couldn’t possibly know what it feels like to buy your own car, buy your own house, decide to hike up a mountain, go scuba diving, swim with sharks, backpacking thru europe etc. A lot of young ladies who worked for me do these things. I know you make your own monies but to have a guardian means you need approval and permission.
When you give someone power over another human being then chances are that power will be abused so why give men that power over women? Arent many of these Saudi guardians travelling for prostitution all over the world so how can they qualify to be guardians?
I’d added a reference in the post above
But you’d quoted me before the addition so I assume you didn’t read it.
I’ll post it here too
This is for USA
Women are much more likely to be victims of intimate partner violence with 85 percent of domestic abuse victims being women and 15 percent men. Too many women have been held captive by domestic violence — whether through physical abuse, financial abuse, emotional abuse or a combination of all three.
Source : 30 Shocking Domestic Violence Statistics That Remind Us It’s An Epidemic | HuffPost
Btw, women aren’t obliged to cook or clean for the husband. Nobody can force them to.
You got a little personal there, so I will not reply to that part of the post. You’d said you wanted to understand the reason and I tried to explain as best I could . I’m sorry I wasn’t good at it. But this is where I stop.
The entire civilised world subscribes to gender equality and yes you cannot convince me that women who are smart and capable need guardians, In Shahidas case where she makes twice as much then maybe she should be his guardian. Single women here are more financially stable compared to males then why would male be the guardian?
I didnt mean to get personal and that was not my intention, in west we are direct in our conversations and eastern people think of it as being rude or personal. Our definitions of abuse are very encompassing, again if my wife goes out shopping and blows thousands on credit cards and I ask her not to, by our definitions that is financial abuse. If the wife starts putting on a lot of weight and you just ask her to pay attention to her health, that would be emotional abuse. We have situation here where this Egyptian PHD student was seduced to go drinking with this girl, she sent him suggestive texts, she invited him to her house, into her bedroom and into her bed and then charged him with rape and the guy got convicted. So I wouldnt go on the figures you are quoting here. In real life here more males are getting abused but it is not reported.
Not all women are the same (Pakistani or otherwise), nor do they need to be.
I am a Pakistani Canadian woman and I work and support myself. My older sister is a stay at home wife and mother and her husband supports her. My younger sister is university educated and has a high paying job.
There is NO comparison. We all live our lives the best way we can and should not be judged for our choices, including working.
You are not supporting these non working women so why do you care?
This is true. Pakistani culture is a little behind Indian culture when it comes to women and careers. But it is catching up. You will see much less difference in the newer generation.
Just talking in terms of percentages, kind of hurts to see people fall behind in life because of way of thinking. If it is because of a conscious decision then it is fine but if it is from a limiting belief then we should reexamine the thoughts. We know many people who are crazy wealthy and not working is a choice but then many are suffering and cant put kids in programs or live in suitable housing. This mortgage girl who says she is so motivated to be a career woman and yet has absolutely no work ethic and focuses on rishtas way befor her professional commitment. Yesterday right when I needed her she went outside to talk to god knows who and didn’t come back till the customer left.
I am dealing with many new comers and it seems that Indian women jump at even physically demanding jobs or any kind of job and that extra 30 to 40k a year makes a big difference in the quality of life, It also seems that when females are financially independent the husbands show them more importance.
