Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
No ,Canada is just filled with people who cant speak english right, always with the "AAAA"
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
It seems to come down to how one wants to judge a country...
For people like Quas their judgement of Pakistan is not based on their morality...but on other factors eg economy etc...
As for a lot of you...you judge the country based on its morality...again i'll say that Pakistan is not an Islamic country so why do you expect everyone to be Islamic...
Society is not Islamic...Pakistanis are subjected to a lot of Western media and thus have a lot more lifestyle choices so some will choose to be Islamic and some wont...just like we have in the West...
If your criticism is that Pakistan is unislamic...leiglatively it isnt and in future will become increasingly more secular and westernised with neo-liberal value systems becoming the forefront of Pakistani culture just like they are trying in Afghanistan...
What people choose to do is up to them...But with a wider variety of choices you are going to get differences in peoples behaviour...so accept it...
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
What about judging it based on ur own experiences ?? If someone has not had the best experience in that particular country, why should they be looked down upon ??
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today’s perspective.
I got a request to edit this post. I didn’t know I was being offensive.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
Lol, i cannot belive what a turn this thread has taken. Starting with an innocent post from Diva and it has turned into something totally different.
Diva: I have never lived in Pak but one year. I had a swell time there with friends, who were normal people. No clubbing, drinking, partying etc. But since i have left, abt 6.5 years ago, even my friends living there say that in the amidst of it all , wouldnt we feel the change as well? I was in school while i was there and thought Pak was this "paak"place,just like my parents had ingrained into me. On the other hand, when my male class mates went out and saw the stuff that happens, i had a hard time believing what they related as well.
To all the folks who think someone is bashing Pak, i clearly havent come across a post here that had Pak bashing being done. I mean seriously folks, if you close your eyes inorder to avoid seeing the bad stuff that happens, doesnt mean its not happening. Open your eyes and try to accept the fact that alot of stuff considered haraam happens in Pak as well, albeit not as openly as it does in the west. Like saieen said, if you are looking for good, you will find it and if you are looking for bad, you will find that as well. Try to be open in your views and not be stubborn and blind about them.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
^ We are not arguing about BAD stuff here, We are just trying to say that its human nature to act upon desires, no matter what religion or country you belong to. If It was possible for us all to be perfect Mulsims or Human beings then there wouldn't have been any need for this world at all.
"Remember Adam was a prophet and he ate the sacred fruit".
The rest are ordinary human beings, mere mortals , you can't expect examplary behaviour frpom every one.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
I heard these things 2 from a cousin he told me @ the mall guyz and girls
give there numbers or god now what happen next after they
give there number. I mean you dont give ur number to a guy who
u met once.
But about that wife/husband swippin i did not knew that.
That alcohol use is common there.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
^Maar dalo saalon ko.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
My question to all those people who live outside of Pakistan, do you consider yourself an American, British etc? I mean ONLY American not Pakistani-American, JUST British not Asian British? I know the responses that will be forthcoming.
Too bad you'll never be considered a real American, British in the eyes of your society. At that time it will be convenient to hide behind that Pakistani-American identity. But please continue on bashing Pakistan..
And yes, American born & raised but Pakistani, only Pakistani.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
The Hustler, I don't see anyone bashing Pakistan. These things are actually going on there. Many of us are shocked and disheartened that what we hate about the West is going on over there in an Islamic country as well. It's disappointing.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
I am sorry but I disagree and there are plenty of others who agree with me. I am not surprised that you don't see this as bashing. Since your name includes NYC, you haven't answered my question: Pakistani or American?
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
I am actually refering to individual responsibility. It might be easier to be sinning, but if you believe in a religion (eg Islam) your fear of sin and the punishments of the afterlife will stop you. On the other hand, if you're a person of loose morals and characters, like the ones many of associates of the folks bashing Pakistan, then no matter the country, you will find those bad things.
You may not believe that religious people will one day control Pakistan, I do. In the US, the religious conservative movement, after much strong struggle took control of all branches of the government. Sure it took time, while the liberals were busy in their ideological drunknness, the conservatives were building from the ground up. There is a difference between fundamentalism and the formation of a religious government that propogates a just and moral society.
I don't know where you are from but I know that one can be sucessful in the US without drinking alcohol (our President doesnt), chasing women (our workplace culture frowns on that) etc. So to be successful, you really have to apply the rules of Islam. The Mormon, Jewish communities in the US has also done well due to their adherence to their faith.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today’s perspective.
Hustler, you could start another thread about Pakitani or American…that’s a bit off topic. The issue here is that what I hate about the West also exists in Pakistan and that is shocking to me, disheartening to me. Nowhere do I bash Pakistan. Am I bashing Somalia if I disagree with female circumcision? It’s an aspect of the culture that I wish would change and that I totally disagree with. Ofcourse it’s individual responsibility to live a pure, Muslim life and we each have a choice. I totally disagree with the bad that exists in America. I disagree with the bad in Pakistan. I think there must be something more to your defensiveness. Why you so uptight?
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
I sense a clarification is required here..
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Hustler, you could start another thread about Pakitani or American...that's a bit off topic. **
This strikes at the core of whether the person responding considers him/herself a Pakistani or American (another group). It is about context. In real life, I am sure there are things you have said within your family that you would not say outside of it. For a Pakistani to criticize say corruption would be ok, however for visiting American to be critical of the corruption would be more offensive. True or not?
**
The issue here is that what I hate about the West also exists in Pakistan and that is shocking to me, disheartening to me. **
Pakistan is a country with an Islamic society. Despite the drinking and debauchery of certain segments of society of Pakistan, the overriding CENTRAL basis of the country is upon Islamic/Indian principles, niether of which condone or even allow PUBLIC displays of vulgarity. Go ahead and wear a miniskirt in Waziristan or drink your sharab in downtown Karachi, tell me it will be ok?
Lets talk about the US. The US is built upon the Anglo-Protestant cultural norms of individualism and freedoms which now have been further corrupted by moral relativism. What is moral relativism? The notion that we cannot judge others within our moral framework. Therefore you see SEGMENTS of US society acting out in their hedonistic tendencies. And many of the 'so-called' Pakistani-Americans have joined them. I don't issue blanket statements on the US/West because there are many moral folks out here.
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Nowhere do I bash Pakistan. Am I bashing Somalia if I disagree with female circumcision? **
If you would associate female circumcision as exclusively a Somalian issue then yes it would be bashing Somalia. Please go to a Somalian forum and (speaking as an American or Pakistani) tell them what is wrong with them, I will assure you that the responses will not be positive.
**
It's an aspect of the culture that I wish would change and that I totally disagree with. Ofcourse it's individual responsibility to live a pure, Muslim life and we each have a choice. I totally disagree with the bad that exists in America.
**
I hate to tell you this: but Pakistan or any other country will never be 100% perfect. The bad habits have always existed and it is safe to say they will forever exist. If we start talking about Saudi Arabia (the Birthplace of Islam), I could tell you similar things exist within the segments of society but the dominant culture is of Islam.
The labelling of entire society as such and statements that infer that all Pakistanis are like this or that is what is considered to be bashing.
**
I think there must be something more to your defensiveness. Why you so uptight?**
There is no defensiveness, I have made it clear that I stand with Pakistan. Attacks were made against Pakistan and I am simply defending the vast majority of the country. I am sorry if I said anything to offend but the truth is: You have to decide where you stand in the world, because others will respond to you within that context.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
This thread has disturbed me somewhat. It's been a long time since i was in Pakistan and i have spent most of my life in Australia...i was born in Karachi however.
To be honest, i've only become aware of how "advanced" pakistan has become after joining this forum. I think this is probably because like other guppies, my parents in particular my mum has a picture of Pakistan like it was the day she emigrated. This image has been drilled into our heads and has been used as a beacon to guide my siblings and i as to the correct behaviour and what is acceptable culturally wise and what is not. That is, the parental saying often goes like this: "just because you live in Australia does not mean you can do what white Australians do and completely embrace the Australian culture".
I reckon if my parents visited Pakistan they'd be horrified. Girls wearing sleeveless, guys and girls displaying public affection etc.
From my perspective, it's all part of the new century. I think Pakistan's culture like most of the world's cultures have been a subject to globalisation and Americanisation. Everyone watches, eats, wears american things.
The only thing is, some people are overly trying to be american in Pakistan for popularity reasons and to show off. From what i've read, these people are upper class snobs.
As for some of the things people get upto which is morally and religiously not compatible, it's between them and God.
The key thing to remember is that the majority of the population is moderately conservative.....I think. Neither here or there….in the middle.
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
^ dont ya think we should have strict Islamic code of conduct wherein ppl adhere to Islamic values and dont watch TV or listen to radio to get their minds polluted.. The question is whether we should allow modernisation in Pakistan..
Re: Pakistani Culture of Pakistan - Today's perspective.
If you read stuff from pre-partition, and early partition and some of the work written in 60s and 70s you will find that such stuff was already there, its just that it was all hush hush. And its not the case of Pakistan its all over, regardless of geography or religion.
Now why does it seem so prevalent now? I personally believe its because the modes of communication have changed. I remember when a phone call used to cost a lot of money and you wouldn't call someone unless necessary. Now with free unlimited minutes, incoming free, text, Internet, etc. you get to talk a lot, with cars and highways you go a lot more places, with dish & cable you can think outside of where you live etc. If this interconnected communication does anything it is that it lets gossip and facts travel the corners of the world blazing fast and we get to know things about a person we would only hear about after his funeral.
Pakistan is a huge country, diverse in many many ways and its culture can't be defined by Karachi or Lahore. Just like NYC or San Fran doesn't do Justice to what American culture is.