Is the situation as bad as is claimed to be in this article?
I wouldn’t doubt if the ‘elders’ do not think of this ‘gang’ and ‘trouble youth’ as a problem as they have probably seen worse in their life time. So, what is the solution?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum25/HTML/005240.html
***I dunno where I’m going. I dunno what for. But I’m making progress.
Oops sorry ...
Pakistanis in Britain I have heard have a REALLY bad sitation… They are generally thought of as being tough gangbanger types. They are looked on the same way as blacks are in America.. For some reason, Indians are doing much better then Pakistanis in general. They have get better education, better jobs everything. Its not because Pakistanis are discriminated against, but rather because Pakistanis dont take adavantage of what they have. Even in a recent stud, it was showng that Indians are more likely to be succesful then Pakistanis.
Sad but true
There is only thing which diffrentiates Indian and paksitani.. Its called ATTITUDE !!!
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed:
Pakistanis in Britain I have heard have a REALLY bad sitation... They are generally thought of as being tough gangbanger types.
What a load of utter nonsence!! In future please do not make ill-conceived statements such as these also dont try and stereotype Pakistanis living in Britain...
*They are looked on the same way as blacks are in America.. *
What kind of statement is this????
For some reason, Indians are doing much better then Pakistanis in general. They have get better education, better jobs everything.
For your info many Pakistanis in Britain are very succesful businessmen, many are Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Teachers etc and have very good jobs in IT and in other professional fields.
[quote]
Originally posted by Dil he Pakistani:
**
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed:
Pakistanis in Britain I have heard have a REALLY bad sitation... They are generally thought of as being tough gangbanger types.
What a load of utter nonsence!! In future please do not make ill-conceived statements such as these also dont try and stereotype Pakistanis living in Britain...
*They are looked on the same way as blacks are in America.. *
What kind of statement is this????
For some reason, Indians are doing much better then Pakistanis in general. They have get better education, better jobs everything.
For your info many Pakistanis in Britain are very succesful businessmen, many are Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Teachers etc and have very good jobs in IT and in other professional fields.
**
[/quote]
I actually got this from british Pakistais living in Britain.. And the study I was refering to was from an actual research group who's work was shown in BCC.com last year.. It showed that kids from identical backgrounds in education, with the same oppurtnities, one being Pakistani the other Indian, the Indian was most likely to succed because of his upbringing. Also, fact is that the so called "Asians" that were involved in the race rights just happened to be from prodominantly Pakistani and Bengali neighborhoods. I know there are also succesful Pakistanis , but they are the exception, I mean their are also succesful Blacks. But reputations are hard to change, and according to most Pakistani Britishers I have met, Pakistanis are looked on in a very negative way.
Patterns of immigration may be an interesting study to do.
yeah there is a large group of pakistanis not doing well and for some odd reason it has the same background from what I have seen. all in general from a specific rural area, children of ppl of a specific educational level or lack thereof.
I have never seen any Pakistani who attempted to do well, or who went to a decent school complain about lack of opportunities.
prejudism is everywhere, people complain about it in Pakistan too. But its way too easy for some ppl to blame it on the "gora"
these ppl would have been mohallay kay badmaash, awara types had their parents not emigrated to the UK. Well they failed to grab the opportunities possible and bob's your uncle.
The Pakistanis I know are successful, are not all from rich families but from educated families or families with an interest in education. Others have been successful without education just by drive and determination. take away drive, determination and education and you have the making of a street thug.
Immigration from India to US and UK is from middle class educated families, many who have come for further studies or through work visas.
Unfortunately most of the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis who came to UK were from rural families who worked as textile mill workers. Pakistanis are mostly from Gujrat region in Punjab and Mirpur in Kashmir. From Bangladesh almost all are from the Sylhet region.
One thing is also true that Indians (and Chinese) value education much more than Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Education makes a big difference. India would definitely be in a much better state of it's literacy rate were higher.
[quote]
Originally posted by durango:
**
One thing is also true that Indians (and Chinese) value education much more than Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Education makes a big difference. India would definitely be in a much better state of it's literacy rate were higher.**
[/quote]
true if you are comparing the urban indians who have emigrated to UK vs rural uneducated Pakistanis. I am certain if similar groups are compared among immigrants from both countries they would be more similar. As I said, immigration patterns have a big hand in this.
for indians education become their religen
for pakistanis more obcesssed with religen.
both have different goals.
Pakistanis in America tend to be relatively succesful. I think this might be because its more difficult to get into America then it is to get inot Britain. American immigration may target the middle class Pakistanis. I for one have found that if a Pakistani cant get into America he will settle for England.
Also, it may be that since the Pakistani population in England is so large and so much denser then it is here, the immigrants are given a false sense of security which leads them to becoming under achievers. In America, the Pakistani populus is much smaller and more spread out. This forces people to work harder for their survival. Over all, its probabaly a mix of all these.
Pakistanis in Britain tend to have emigrated from rural areas where children didn't used to go to school. This has changed quite a lot now, but back then people were more concerned about their land and no one gave too much thought to education.
Indians give more importance to studying and they have a better attitude in this regard. I think the next generation will see a big improvement.
Adnan its less of a question of how easy it is to get into which country but more of what type of workers did that country need when the immigrants entered.
British immigration had been very lax until fairly recently compared to the US as well so I am not discounting your point at all but believe that the type of workers that took advantage of those opportunities were mostly from specific areas in Pakistan.
Now what type of conditions existed in those areas in Pakistan that a certain type of immigrant came from there in large quantities, that would be interesting research. Indians of the same deomgraphic background, did not or could not come to UK in such large numbers.
If anyone lived in middle east you would have seen that up until late 70's the pakistani population seemed to be the educated, professional type. The laboroers flooded the place in late 70's and early 80's. That changed the image of an average Pakistani right then, why , well looking at the numbers and the ratios of different groups that was the average.
Did our rural uneducated people have more of an ability and/or motivation to leave the country compared to their Indian counterparts? and did the educated and professional people have less interest or ability to move abroad? that is also a question.
If you look at the general literacy rates in both countries you may wonder along similar lines.
from what i have heard is that its hard to get a visa for england compared to getting for usa.
probably cause' of the pak population in england, they carefully select the ppl they want in their country.
and secondly i have seen that the american embassy is normally going to give u a logical reason for rejecting ur application while the visa officer at the british embassy won't. they can reject ur application even if they don't like ur face.
***I dunno where I'm going. I dunno what for. But I'm making progress.
In addition to the point made by Frudia bhai about immigration patterns; let me add that England is more so a welfare state than USofA. People who do not want to work, find it much easier to deceive the government in UK than to do that in US; due to different welfare policies. Canada is also a good example of a lenient welfare state that but their immigration still hold education a very high factor when picking immigrants.
i was under the impression that both pakis and indians in england were from relatively similar economic backgrounds. i assumed it was mainly peasants from punjab but im not sure about the gujuratis but since they r enterprising there is a good chance they werent affluent in india either.
here is the some of the statistics about asian education in uk.
Education
Asian pupils setting the pace http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/newsid_309000/309513.stm
I guess education did not become religion (religen) for some indians
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[This message has been edited by Fraudz (edited July 15, 2002).]