Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

[risc]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

All of those who want to kiss Mullah Omaers backside I wonder how you would feel living under their total control. Having your balls checked for pubic hair, no education for woman, forced to read namaz. Doesnt sound like Islam to me.

[Seminole]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@Captain1

Offer was ridiculous? ha ha. You expect a nation to bend over when you demand them to? I am sure you will bend over when your 7 footer neighbor ask you to, but those with some dignity will ask why? Taliban did offer a trial of Osama in an agreed third country, what was the response?

The offer was AFTER the bombing began and had strings attached (such as they get to determine the 3rd country). The US didn’t and shouldn’t have gone down that path of diversion.

Clutching at straws now, eh? Don’t divert, just dicuss the situation where it belongs.

Divert? This whole thread is diversion, what does any of the discussion you initiated have to do with the original post? My point here is that the US is THE superpower and with that comes responsibilities and power. Taliban should have thought about that before becoming stomping grounds for terrorists. Just as all superpowers before them determined what offers were reasonable.

I am using the term which was used when Afghanistan was invaded, period.

You are misusing the term. Period.

Yep, someone who is still washed by media :k:. If “no bombs”, “no gunshootings” is terrorizing then I don’t know what peace is, may be you should ask FOX about the definition of “Peace”.

You obviously don’t know or want to admit the violence commited by the Pakistani-backed Taliban to get control of the country. And if you want to call their government “peaceful”, then you obviuosly get your defintion of ‘peace’ from the likes of Mullah Omar, bin Laden or other radical Islamists.

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@risc

All of those who want to kiss Mullah Omaers backside I wonder how you would feel living under their total control. Having your balls checked for pubic hair, no education for woman, forced to read namaz. Doesnt sound like Islam to me.

This same comment can be reworded "How would you like your body to be roasted today: With a bomb, or bullets riddled? by coalition forces or by "insurgents"?

I don't mean to paint a rosy picture of Taliban era, but even today Afghanistan is not all green and the chances are that it will remain yellow for very long time.

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@Seminole

The offer was AFTER the bombing began and had strings attached (such as they get to determine the 3rd country). The US didn't and shouldn't have gone down that path of diversion.

After bombing had began? You certainly have bad memory, we are not talking about Saddam offering a truce/compromise etc. Taliban offered Osama's trial right after US demanded his eviction from Afghanistan.

[quote]
Divert? This whole thread is diversion, what does any of the discussion you initiated have to do with the original post?
[/quote]
Read the thread again, its okay to have cursory look, but you need to pay close attention when making a claim.

[quote]
My point here is that the US is THE superpower and with that comes responsibilities and power. Taliban should have thought about that before becoming stomping grounds for terrorists. Just as all superpowers before them determined what offers were reasonable.
[/quote]

I am not suggesting Nepal is a superpower, when you have power and responsibility you also have to be accountable, when you do wrong you will be criticized/condemned.

[quote]
You obviously don't know or want to admit the violence commited by the Pakistani-backed Taliban to get control of the country. And if you want to call their government "peaceful", then you obviuosly get your defintion of 'peace' from the likes of Mullah Omar, bin Laden or other radical Islamists.
[/quote]
Once you defeat the war-lords you can attain peace. What you are perhaps basing your claims are the videos made by the Northern Alliance i.e. beating up of the women in public for nail polish. I am not suggesting that Taliban were angels, they had their shortcomings and issues which could have been corrected just like todays Afghan government has issues and shortcomings and now everyone is willing to give them time just because they are bending for your demands.

[Seminole]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@Captain1

After bombing had began? You certainly have bad memory, we are not talking about Saddam offering a truce/compromise etc. Taliban offered Osama’s trial right after US demanded his eviction from Afghanistan.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,573975,00.html

Read the thread again, its okay to have cursory look, but you need to pay close attention when making a claim. I am not suggesting Nepal is a superpower, when you have power and responsibility you also have to be accountable, when you do wrong you will be criticized/condemned.

Accountable/criticized/condemned by whom? The pissants who tried to destroy your country? The ones who provided their base of operations? The whiners who would do nothing about it until the next attack? Yes, there are responsibilities that come with being the superpower, one of them is to ignore the crybabies who don’t have any other solutions. My cursory reference to the Islamic empire was that they did not listen to those with disimiliar interests when they were trying to conquer the world, and they are remembered fondly, never any condemnatoin of their tactics. When you are the most powerful nation on earth, you do not let someone try to destroy you and then play games with the terrorist regime that allowed it.

I am not suggesting that Taliban were angels, they had their shortcomings and issues which could have been corrected just like todays Afghan government has issues and shortcomings and now everyone is willing to give them time just because they are bending for your demands.

We are talking about the Taliban’s deeply entrenched radical philosophy that drove their government and policy vs. today’s current security issues. The Taliban’s shortcomings were not correctable unless they totally changed their beliefs, principles and reason for existence. So it wouldn’t matter how long they were left in power. But when they allowed the country to become home base to terrorists that wanted to attack American civilians and facilities, they sacrificed any chance to even try to change their barbaric policies. And no, I wasn’t brainwashed by NA videos. Everyone except Muslim apologists know their oppression and barbaric ways were more than just propaganda.

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@Seminole

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,573975,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1539468.stm
Did I hear “ouch”?

My cursory reference to the Islamic empire was that they did not listen to those with disimiliar interests when they were trying to conquer the world, and they are remembered fondly, never any condemnatoin of their tactics. When you are the most powerful nation on earth, you do not let someone try to destroy you and then play games with the terrorist regime that allowed it.

For a second I believe you that Islamic empires were blind and not listening to opposition, their wrong makes US wrongs correct? :k: Good thinking.

PS: with that said, I’ll stop here on this discussion.

[risc]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@Captain1

This same comment can be reworded "How would you like your body to be roasted today: With a bomb, or bullets riddled? by coalition forces or by “insurgents”?

I don’t mean to paint a rosy picture of Taliban era, but even today Afghanistan is not all green and the chances are that it will remain yellow for very long time.

Yes but you cant be sriously suggesting we let it go back to the taliban reign?

[Seminole]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@Captain1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1539468.stm

And where in that link does it state that the Taliban offered to hand bin Laden over to third country for trials? I never questioned they wanted proof before extradiction.

For a second I believe you that Islamic empires were blind and not listening to opposition, their wrong makes US wrongs correct? :k: Good thinking.

No, just an example of might is right. Even when the superpowers were supposedly following the perfect religion. The powerful have always had their way to protect their interests and until the world becomes a monolith, they always will.

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@risc

Yes but you cant be sriously suggesting we let it go back to the taliban reign?

and you seriously can't be thinking that Afghanis are far better vs Taliban era.

[antiobl]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

^^ Captain Ji, the two things in this thread are different (but related).

1. A British soldier of Pakistani origin gave life for his country. That is an admirable act.
2. Is Afghanistan better off now OR things were good during Taliban era. Well! Jury is still out on that. And you are right to question the ground realities. However we can all rely on some signs to assess the trends. Some of the clear signs so far are that Afghan cities are not being rocketed by war-lords, and minorities (Hazara, Uzbek, and Tajiks) are not being persecuted by the government. There is a semblance of multi-party government in Kabul, even though I feel Kharashzada (flea-bitten) Kharazai is unfit for the job. It is time for the leadership in Kabul to be changed. We need a new leader who gets out of Kabul, and meets people face to face. Afghan tribals may trust someone who can come by and personally assure that things will be OK in the long run.

[Lajawab]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@legbreakgoogly

May that boy rot with those he sided with.

Ameen, Summa Ameen…

[risc]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@Captain1

and you seriously can’t be thinking that Afghanis are far better vs Taliban era.

I do. At least they have a sesne of hope now. Must be doing something right with refugees leaving back for Afghanistan than the other way around.

[ehsan]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@Lajawab

Ameen, Summa Ameen...

While I do not wish to stop the expression of views by anyone can I appeal that this is a very personal matter for me and please as a friend I ask you to refrain from such attacks. It will be appreciated. This is purely on a personal level and has nothing to do with GS.

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@antiobl

2. Is Afghanistan better off now OR things were good during Taliban era. Well! Jury is still out on that. And you are right to question the ground realities. However we can all rely on some signs to assess the trends. Some of the clear signs so far are that Afghan cities are not being rocketed by war-lords, and minorities (Hazara, Uzbek, and Tajiks) are not being persecuted by the government. There is a semblance of multi-party government in Kabul, even though I feel Kharashzada (flea-bitten) Kharazai is unfit for the job. It is time for the leadership in Kabul to be changed. We need a new leader who gets out of Kabul, and meets people face to face. Afghan tribals may trust someone who can come by and personally assure that things will be OK in the long run.

City rocketing had stopped (at least in Taliban controlled areas), as far as I know minority persecution was in areas which were still facing tug-of-war.

Do you really believe puppets can be replaced by "real" governments?

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@risc

I do. At least they have a sesne of hope now. Must be doing something right with refugees leaving back for Afghanistan than the other way around.

All the hope is in "media". Refugee movement started in late 90s when Taliban had control over Afghanistan and then it stopped for few years when US started bombing. Besides, not all the refugees are going back, check suburbs of Karachi for example :)

[risc]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

why dont you go and fight with the taliban, why didnt you move to afghanistan when they where in power? you obviosuly have a thing for them.

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

There is a love for Taliban and Al Qaeda among some intellectuals purely on the basis of their dislike of America. These same people could never survive under the rules of these Salafist movements.

Of course this is not to mean that one must accept whatever America is doing even if it is wrong, but it does mean that one must not divorce him or herself from reality.

Just to make it clear, praying for people to rot in hell is the wrong way.

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@risc

why dont you go and fight with the taliban, why didnt you move to afghanistan when they where in power? you obviosuly have a thing for them.

haha, usual rhetoric from the lovers of wars.

[Seminole]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

What is usual is the rhetoric backing fundamentalist, radical regimes just because they represent the 'anti-US'. What is also usual is that these people singing (which would be illegal btw) the praises of the Taliban, would never live under such conditions themselves. Instead, they criticize the societies (of which they take full advantage of) who are able to provide the comforts and freedoms they enjoy because those countries fought and died against totalinarian powers like the ones they praise.

[Captain1]

Re: Pakistani born British Soldier dies in Afghanistan

@Seminole

What is usual is the rhetoric backing fundamentalist, radical regimes just because they represent the 'anti-US'.

If you call Anti-War as Anti-US then by that definition a large population of US will fall into that category, only neo-cons and war-mongers do not live in US.

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What is also usual is that these people singing (which would be illegal btw) the praises of the Taliban, would never live under such conditions themselves.
[/quote]

Had they thrived for longer and provided opportunities, growth I am sure even you would have gone there gladly but sadly they didn't see enough cash and growth to attract people.

[quote]
Instead, they criticize the societies (of which they take full advantage of) who are able to provide the comforts and freedoms they enjoy because those countries fought and died against totalinarian powers like the ones they praise.
[/quote]
What we condemn/criticize are the wrong actions be it in name of terrorism, war etc. Some people just tend to walk with sheep.