Pakistan was ready to use Nukes? (merged)

Here’s an article about ‘N’ word, conventional and unconventional.

Editorial: Unconventional Wisdom

A recent statement by General Pervez Musharraf has sent everyone scurrying for cover. Did he use the N-word or not? If he did, what did he hope to achieve, given the highly inflammable international environment regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction and nuclear programmes? And if he didn’t, what did he mean and why did he think it necessary to say so?

To be precise, this is what General Musharraf said: “In my meetings with various world leaders, I conveyed my personal message to Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee that the moment Indian forces cross the line of control and the international border, then they should not expect a conventional war from Pakistan (emphasis added).”

An international wire service reported this statement before a gathering of army officers in Karachi as threatening India with nuclear weapons if New Delhi had followed up on its troop mobilisation earlier this year and attacked Pakistan.

However, a quick “clarification” issued by the military spokesperson Maj-Gen Rashid Qureshi says General Pervez Musharraf never spoke about holding out a nuclear threat to India in January 2002 when the two adversaries were locked in a military standoff. Talking to the BBC, Gen Qureshi said General Musharraf’s use of the term “[un]-conventional warfare” was misinterpreted to mean nuclear war whereas all he meant was that in case of an Indian attack, the people of Pakistan would fight alongside the Pakistan military. The context of General Musharraf’s speech, according to Qureshi, should remove the ambiguity.

General Musharraf’s use of the negative with “conventional” would mean “unconventional” and while the dictionary defines unconventional as simply something that is “not limited or bound down by convention”, in strategic parlance, it does refer to weapons of mass destruction. In its haste, therefore, to offer a juicy bit of news to the world, a decidedly irresponsible act, the news wire service put its own spin on the quote. “Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf said Monday that he’d been prepared to use atomic weapons if neighbor India had invaded earlier this year when tensions peaked…(emphasis added)”. Of course, General Musharraf never used the term “nuclear” or “atomic”.

However, while the clarification should settle the issue, there are other dimensions that continue to vex one’s mind despite the stand-down. Just a week ago, reports quoted India’s new COAS-designate Lt-Gen N.C. Vij as telling paratrooper units in Bangalore that the Indian army had planned “a major commando operation in January 2002 to hit and seal off major terrorist launching pads in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir as part of…Operation Parakarma.” Back in January, just a day before General Musharraf made his famous January 12 speech, the then Indian army chief, Sunderajan Padmnabhan speaking on the Army Day, had held out the nuclear threat, which by all indications, stepped up tensions further. But on the surface New Delhi seemed to think that General Padmnabhan had gone a little overboard in his references to the use of nuclear weapons. That is why India’s Defence Minister George Fernandes then issued a clarification.

These three incidents look innocent enough. General Padmnabhan holds forth on nuclear escalation in January 2002 and is gently rapped on the knuckles; General Vij talks last week about a planned operation in January 2002 which never happened; and now General Musharraf says something about unconventional methods which is misquoted to mean nuclear weapons. What is going on?

Let us look at it from another angle. New Delhi was in the process of mobilisation; it embarked on a military-diplomatic offensive; it was also concerned about where Pakistan had drawn the red line. So it asked its COAS to signal to Pakistan as well as to the rest of the world about where India stood. The COAS did as directed; the defence minister then duly came on line to say that the very thought of using nuclear weapons was horrendous. Sounds good. But the essential objective has been achieved, the message conveyed.

On the other side, General Musharraf made his famous January 2002 speech, alternating between holding out the olive branch, urging the international community to get India to back off, threatening India with dire consequences if it tried something adventurous and asking it to begin talking. At some point he also chooses to indicate to New Delhi where the red line exists. Appropriately, he does so through various interlocutors. Then he makes another speech on May 25. This was again a combination of appeasement and belligerence. Within 48 hours of the speech, Pakistan test-fired three missiles. Here is his message: **We want to talk, but don’t get any wrong ideas. **

Now the incoming Indian army chief has chosen to talk about an operation that never was because the Pakistanis raised their hands; thus it made sense for General Musharraf to inform Pakistanis why there was no Indian operation, i.e., India backed off in the face of Pakistani will and determination. But he was smart enough to not use the N-word. And unconventional, as the dictionary shows, does not necessarily mean “nuclear”.

The clarification therefore puts the news wire service in a spot. But none of this gamesmanship addresses the basic question: Where are Pakistan and India headed? Both think they have won the previous round, so none is going to look forward to changing the paradigm of conflict. Add to that the internal political dynamics of both countries and it should be clear to observers that neither side has the will or desire to engage the other meaningfully. This only means more gamesmanship.

pakistan fought three wars without nukes why now worried about conventional war now? how pakistan can prove it can defend its territory
better with nukes rather than regular army? if you completly rely on nukes why even waste your mony on army that can be used for other things?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
how pakistan can prove it can defend its territory?
[/QUOTE]

Didn't you listen what Musharraf said?

Re: Re: Re: Pakistan denies nuclear threat

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pilot: *

So you think Nuclear War is not a Video Game, but you think daisy cutters are...

In one thread you were against moulana and asking taliban like people to get high tech education and on the other hand you are refraining Pakistan from using the same technology in defence.

Dougla pan choro mian aur jo tumharay dil me hay keh dalo

Abhi shukar karo Salman nahi warna tumhara DOUBLE STANDARD single mein change kar deta

[/QUOTE]

Someone explain to this gentleman the difference between a nuclear weapon and a daisy cutter. :D

Re: Re: Re: Pakistan denies nuclear threat

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pilot: *

So you think Nuclear War is not a Video Game, but you think daisy cutters are...

In one thread you were against moulana and asking taliban like people to get high tech education and on the other hand you are refraining Pakistan from using the same technology in defence.

Dougla pan choro mian aur jo tumharay dil me hay keh dalo

Abhi shukar karo Salman nahi warna tumhara DOUBLE STANDARD single mein change kar deta

:D
[/QUOTE]

And by the way, there IS a difference between Taliban and Pakistan. As much as you hate it, Pakistan is not a society of degenerates like the Taliban were.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Didn't you listen what Musharraf said?
[/QUOTE]

defendin means defending honor at the expense of the country?
there will no body even live to brag about honor afterall.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

You confusing him with vajoo, jasoo and advanoo... decisive battle.... yeah right bark and more bark. There is one way to find out if he is bite or bark... Cross the border and find out......
[/QUOTE]

what's the ...oo fixation mr.abdaloo?

actually you're wrong about that being the only way to find out. there are several ways that have beem employed successfully. here are a few to juggle and jiggle your mind:

  1. scare the wits out of the musharaf gang by moving troops to the border and telling them it's gonna be decisive this time...result is musharaf makes urgent phone calls to US to help make deal and avoid total destruction.

  2. tell bush to send someone to isloo to read the riot act - since powell seems to be useless, try armitage ... result is musharaf promises and actually for the first time in his career tries to keep up the promise to stop c.b.t

  3. have straw and other high profile dudes declare pretty much openly that pakistan should stop committing cross border terrorism ... result is with armitage yelling that he will fire him on his left year and straw yelling "you better shape up" on his right year, musharaf decides he has had enough and starts looking for a way out ... result is a farce called elections in pakistan and out comes mr.jamali and friends.

smart guy, this musharaf. he seems to know how to get out when the going gets tough.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

defendin means defending honor at the expense of the country?
[/quote]

Rvikz,

You lost me again. You should re-read the article I posted.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Rvikz,

You lost me again. You should re-read the article I posted.
[/QUOTE]

tell me how it will safeguard the lives of innocent people of pakistan
when you use nukes as soon as indians cross loc?

i dont think u read this
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm…ndia_nuclear_11

Video clips of the Mush’s nuke threats…
http://cbc.ca/clips/ram-lo/common_nukes021230.ram

Check what defense analyst Robert Fox had to say:
“This is really alarming, for somebody who is supposed to be a friend of the West and somebody who is being painted by the West as a moderate…”

CBC cuts of Robert Fox at that point, but his point is quite clear.

Mush is also what one would call a “repeat offender” or a “chronic nuker” since he has threatened the use of nukes in the past.
http://www23.brinkster.com/pakterror/article3.htm

if you think just threat itself gets what you want still you cant get kashmir . afterall the whole crisis is about kashmir for the past 53 years.
nukes may protect what you already have but wont get what you dont have in your hand.afterall thats what we want staus quo.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jagjeevan: *

what's the ...oo fixation mr.abdaloo?

actually you're wrong about that being the only way to find out. there are several ways that have beem employed successfully. here are a few to juggle and jiggle your mind:

  1. scare the wits out of the musharaf gang by moving troops to the border and telling them it's gonna be decisive this time...result is musharaf makes urgent phone calls to US to help make deal and avoid total destruction.

  2. tell bush to send someone to isloo to read the riot act - since powell seems to be useless, try armitage ... result is musharaf promises and actually for the first time in his career tries to keep up the promise to stop c.b.t

  3. have straw and other high profile dudes declare pretty much openly that pakistan should stop committing cross border terrorism ... result is with armitage yelling that he will fire him on his left year and straw yelling "you better shape up" on his right year, musharaf decides he has had enough and starts looking for a way out ... result is a farce called elections in pakistan and out comes mr.jamali and friends.

smart guy, this musharaf. he seems to know how to get out when the going gets tough.
[/QUOTE]

Hey Jagoo seems like you have caught the disease of vajoo-jasooo-advanoo of declaring vijays well in advance. Here are two key Indian demands..

1) Hand over 20 Indian terrorist
2) stop cross border shafting..

Now pick any news papaer and see if any Indian objectives were met. Except in the twisted minds of Indians...... Seems like vajooo knows when to wake up and call his decisive battle.

abdali why pakistan inists on talking to india. there is nothing tto talk about.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
abdali why pakistan inists on talking to india. there is nothing tto talk about.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah sure is that why vajoo the "decisive victory man" invited Mushrraf to agra....

So Abdali says, Pakistan continue to harbour Indian terrorists and continue cross-border supply of terrorism. No problems, I just wish Pakistan Good Luck cos they have started spreading their wings in Pakistan too. :D

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

Yeah sure is that why vajoo the "decisive victory man" invited Mushrraf to agra....
[/QUOTE]

he returend empty . no talk on kashmir it is not an issue at all.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *
So Abdali says, Pakistan continue to harbour Indian terrorists and continue cross-border supply of terrorism. No problems, I just wish Pakistan Good Luck cos they have started spreading their wings in Pakistan too. :D
[/QUOTE]

Dhiro boy that is not the point, what a way to side track and mask your one more vijay... LOL..

India don't have the balls to cross over and take out the camps. Nor it is in a position to demand anything except collect frequent flyer miles alll the way to the white house.... And India has done a good job of it.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

he returend empty . no talk on kashmir it is not an issue at all.
[/QUOTE]

I thought your leaders are not intrested in dialogue but they invite Musharraf or come to Lahore. They even are negotiating with what you call terrorist. Make up ur mind.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *
Dhiro boy that is not the point, what a way to side track and mask your one more vijay... LOL..
India don't have the balls to cross over and take out the camps.

[/QUOTE]

So, you run the Camps.