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Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
khalifa supporters - i'd like to ask you guys what the status of minorities (non-muslims, and muslims of a different minority sect, like shias) is in the supposed caliph state you support..
if you read my answer to your question before, it is answered. But in simple, in Islam there is no such concept as minority as all shia, sunni, hindu, christian, jew are seen as citizens of the Islamic state and the laws are applied equally upon them all. In fact it was this non recognition of the minority concept that brought alot of people into Islam as they were treated the same way as the muslims.
Pakistan is not secular. I personally think Pakistan is confused right now as to what system to adopt and its still experimenting with different system arrangements.
Even though the statements of Mushrraf show that pakistan is not secular, the reality shows something else. The fact that there exists a Shariah court and a regular law court shows that islam (in the Shariah court) is only dealing with marriage, inheritance and a few other rules but the regular court, which does not use the Quran and Sunnah as thier reference, delas with the rest of the issues like criminal offence etc. The fact that women are allowed to walk in the street with our covering, the showing of non islamic programs, the entrance of western curriculam into PAK education system and the non usage of the gold standard as a currency all point to the fact that Islam is not allowed to interfere in these matters. This is because the women who walk without a cover are accounted in Islam in shariah courts and in Pakistan they are not, the fact that in TV dramas women are shown without cover whereas islam does not allow this, the recent education reforms in Pakistan where boys and girls were given a script of chatup lines and then they had to practice with each other, again Islam forbids this and finally, islam obliges the use of the silver and gold standard as a backup for currency, something which Pakistan or any other muslim country does not apply. All these examples and many more indicate the non existence of Islamic rules. This means that Islam is restricted to rituals and is not allowed in the political domain, which means that it is secularised.
the claim you made that the caliph, or leader, must be male is erroneous. The hadith that supports that women can't be leaders is shady in authenticity and muslims like you ought to know better than advocate women not being leaders.
In islamic history (1400) never has a women been a leader for the muslims neither did any of the women at the time of the Prophet ever stand to be a leader. All the classical scholars have agreed that women are not allowed to be the leaders all though other posts are given to them. Some silly people have made up reasons saying that the reason for this is because women dont have the capability-this reason is false and the texts have not given a reason for why they are not allowed. the hadith is used by many scholars and is not shady but it's definitely acceptable. The Prophet (saw) said "Lun yuf liha Qawmun wallow amra humumra a" "The people who appoint a women as thier leader will never succeed"
This is the clear evidence.
*Also, when I talked of democracy earlier, I didn't mean democracy in the sense that most people seem to understand it - as in rule of the people. The rule of the peoople can mean a lot of things *
No it cant, democracy is a word which is not open to interpretation as it means that people are soverign in all fields i.e. even making rules. It maybe that u mean something else, well in that case you should not use this word as it is calling for the people to be soverign and not Allah.
The people get to decide on certain issues, and otherwise , for more serious issues - like foreign policy - the leaders make decisions.
Your right, the people are allowed to have a say in issues which the shariah has allowed such as where schools, hospitals and roads should be built. This is called consultation and not democracy. Also, the forign policy is laid out in the Quran and sunnah and the leader has no option but to implement this. The foreign policy being to propagate islam. Allah (swt) says "we have not sent you except as a mercy to MANKIND".
So dont think that democracy is necessarily haraam in any way. I was under the impression that muslims are permitted to at least elect the caliph and department heads, and other leaders - like the treasurer, etc.
Like the i told you Islam does not allow man made rules something which democracy enforces and electing a leader is called ELECTIONS and this is a style allowed in Islam and elections is not democracy, it is called elections.
The Prophet foretold the return of the Khilafah state and that it will return after the the muslims have been through persecution. He never said that the Presidential system will return nor the secular system but he said "the Khilafah state".
Who will deny this?
**
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[This message has been edited by Khilafah1422 (edited August 03, 2002).]