Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

Would be wrong to put the blame solely on Misbah's shoulders even though he is the captain. What can he do when our fielding is so pathetic, when we are effectively playing with 3 batters (Misbah, Asad and Azhar) and when our so-called all rounders cannot bat in pressure situations!!!

Even our bowling minus Saeed Ajmal (although Hafeez and Tanvir bowled well on occasions. Afridi was hardly penetrative) is nothing special

Let's just accept that in international terms this team is pretty ordinary

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

A player can only bat and can come in to bat at whatever order, if the player is given chance and asked.

Anyhow, since you raised an issue ... can you please tell in your opinion which of the following players amongst A, B and C ... is the one who can bat better than other two and who is the one who cannot bat (as according to you, one cannot bat)?

All 3 figures are of players who were playing in this match. One figure is of Pakistan wicketkeeper (Sarfraz Ahmed who according to you cannot bat) and other two figures are of the players who are in Pakistani team just for batting (Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali).

First class cricket (where batting average rules):
A: Runs: 3847 ... HS: 213* ... Average: 43.22
B: Runs: 3242 ... HS: 223 ..... Average: 41.03
C: Runs: 4495 ... HS: 157 ..... Average: 37.77

Twenty20 (where strike rate rules)
A: Runs: 274 ... Average: 18.26 ... SR: 136.31
B: Runs: 671 ... Average: 22.36 ... SR: 110.72
C: Runs: 298 ... Average: 16.55 ... SR: 106.04

Well:
A is Sarfarz Ahmed
B is Asad Shafiq (selected in team for batting only)
C is Azhar Ali (selected in the team for batting only)

Surprisingly, according to you Sarfarz cannot bat and according to me Sarfarz is better batsman in all kind of cricket compared to Asad as well as Azhar (both are in Pakistan team for their batting). For instance, Sarfarz figure shows that compared to Asad and Azhar, Sarfarz can score runs with better average (requirement in test and first class matches) and he can score runs faster with similar average (requirement in ODI as well as twenty20 matches).

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

In Pakistan, the biggest problem is not talent or capability of player, but it is nepotism in selection as well as giving player playing chances in team when selected. A player with mediocre (or even no) ability can get selected all the time regardless of performance if that player has connections or right ethnic/provincial background, whereas a capable and talented player would never get selected if the player has no connections or has wrong ethnic/provincial background.

In such situation, players know that they cannot even think of getting selected on their performance. Thus, a player even if gets selected in team on merit do not care about performance for country, as that is meaningless in Pakistan. If anyone does perform, it is for their own personal achievement rather than for team or country.

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

ODI performance: Umar Gul Vs M Sami

Bowling:
U Gul: Match: 111 ... Wickets: 158 ... Ave: 27.79 ... ER: 5.08
(1.4234 wickets per match @ 27.79 runs per wk ... at economy rate of 5.09 runs per over)

M Sami: Match: 85 ... Wickets: 121 ... Ave: 28.52 ... ER: 4.94
(1.4235 wickets per match @ 28.52 runs per wk ... at economy rate of 4.94 runs per over)

Batting:
U Gul: 384 runs @ average of 9.84 with SR of 70
M Sami: 314 runs @ average of 11.62 with SR of 64

Can anyone see difference?

To me, both have similar performance record in ODIs. Actually, in bowling both have same performance and in batting M Sami is slightly better.

So, if there is no such difference in performance between the two (as can be seen from performance record), then why one should be preferred in getting selected for team over other... any reason?

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

Whats Misbah performance himself with the bat? Just one fifty that too in losing cause

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

Misbah could have done better but he still averaged 36.50 with the bat

But look at the batting averages of our two all rounders:

Hafeez - 11.40 not good enough for an all rounder let alone someone who opens the innings in ODIs. bowled well though

Afridi batting ave. 9.33 + 3 wickets in 5 games at 48.33 - hardly a Talismanic performance!!

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=7300;team=7;type=series

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

Both Sami and Gul (except in T20Is) are average bowlers IMO

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

I am one of those who was in favour of giving Sarfraz an extended break behind the stumps. Now that he is an international player, we can't just go on his domestic performances. Whilst 23 games (batting ave. 19.11) is not a long career in ODIs, Sarfraz needs to start performing with the bat sooner rather than later. He has played one good knock so far of 40 odd in Asia Cup Final

Unless he improves his batting over the next few games, he should be replaced by Adnan (not a finished article by any means) or someone-else

Look at other wicket-keepers in ODIs - Dhoni, McCullum, Boucher etc. - They are all proper batsmen in their own right

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

^^^ If you would send a player at number 7, 8 or 9 in ODI and expect average above 20, than I think that is asking too much. Just imagine, Sarfraz played 23 matches but had chance to bat in only 13 innings, and that also so late that out of 13 innings he only completed 9.

That means, sending him too late and that also when either team needs slogging (means low average for the player) or team needs someone to stabilise the inning (cause low SR). With Pakistan, what happens most of the time is that Pakistan scores good if first 5 player scores and thus players down the order do not even comes out to bat or comes out to slog. On the other hand, if first 5 players do score than player coming at 7 or 8 never even get chance to bat properly as a good player down that order is only expected to stabilise the inning.

What is big deal about Adnan?

Adnan (first class batting average 23) could not even get into team on his first class batting records whereas Sarfarz batting record (averages 43) is better than most Pakistani batsmen.

Anyhow, let check limited over international cricket record.

Adnan played 3 complete ODI innings with HS of 27 and has average 20.6 with SR 69.6

Sarfarz played 9 complete ODI innings with HS of 46* and has average 19 with SR 69.

Anyhow, very little there in ODI to compare them ... but criteria of ODI is ability to score fast with reasonable average and that also shows in twenty20. As both Adnan and Sarfarz played reasonable twenty20, let compare their twenty20 records.

Adnan played 8 complete innings with HS of 29, an average of 9 and SR of 92

Sarfarz played 15 complete innings with HS of 37, an average of 18 and SR of 136

With similar bowlers in team ... let see their wicket keeping records.

Sarfraz: 17 catches and 8 stumping in 23 matches = 1.1 wickets per match.

Adnan: 3 catches and 0 stumping in 5 matches = 0.6 wickets per match or half of what Sarfarz achieved.

Now, make your choice without any biases.

I think Sarfraz should be in team as batsman and his wicket keeping should be taken as bonus. That means he should come in at number 3, 4 or 5 in batting order. And it is after that one can say how he is doing with bat.

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

You are also more likely to have NOs batting lower down the order (provided you are a good finisher like Dhoni or Bevan)

As you can see Dhoni has 53 NOs in 183 innings

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/28081.html

Dhoni averages 51.70 in ODIs batting at 7, the best finisher in the game at the moment. So that is hardly a good excuse

I would not drop Sarfraz but he needs to start contributing with the bat as well. If our two all rounders were more consistent with the bat we would not be having this discussion about Sarfraz!!

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

^^^ I do not think not-out in long run increases average of a player (excluding rare examples), as I consider not-out as inning incomplete just like one player plays an incomplete inning at the end of a day then comes out to resume that inning next day (and next day to me is either next day or next inning after many days).

Only difference is that when a player comes in first time they have no fatigue and are mentally under less pressure then player who has already played a long inning, thus have fatigue and pressure. This may give some benefits of not-out, but that is academic, as for some players chances of duck is higher when they start their inning after long gap.

As for Dhoni and Bevan, their batting is most suited for limited over matches. No doubt they are very aggressive and quality players better than most known top-notch limited over batsmen. So, comparing Pakistani wicket keeper with Dhoni, especially in limited over cricket, is ridiculous.

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

How does it not increase your average?

Had Dhoni batted up the order his whole career he would have 20-25 NOs at most I guess (but he would have also scored more runs) and his overall batting average would have dropped (to around mid-forties, still very good in ODIs)

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

^^^ Don’t you think that Dhoni would have made more runs but he was stopped from making those runs due to end of inning even when he was still batting and settle?

Actually in cricket, a person’s batting inning starts when his new batting starts after he got out (lost his wicket). This inning ends when he gets out. Time taken for a player to complete his inning does not matter, neither it matters how many gaps are there and how long the gap were before player ended his inning (got out).

For instance ... a person starts his inning in match A but did not got out at the end of match A, thus even though match ended, the player’s inning did not finish. The inning finishes when the player loses his wicket and that could be in any match after he started his inning. That is different matter that when we say NO, we talk about individual match inning of the player and not player’s inning.

Above principle applies everywhere when we talk about average.

Coming to Dhoni: Dhoni was not out 53 times. Let assume that if he had chance to compete all his ‘not out’ inning he would have had no ‘not out’ in his name (actually, he did completed his inning but that completing his inning happened in next match or whenever he got out). Certainly if he had completed his innings (in same match) he would have made more runs (he would not have lost his wickets 53 times with 0 runs added to his total runs).

We cannot say that how many more runs he would have made if he had completed his innings all the time (in same match), but one can safely estimate that he would have made extra 2756 runs before getting out 53 times he was NO (as he makes on average 52 runs before getting out and 52 x 53 = 2756 runs). That extra run would have given him same average what he has today.

Anyhow, one can say that he might have made less than 2756 runs but in same way one can say that he might have made more than 2756 runs. Most likely he might have made more runs than 2756 as he must be settled-in most of the time when he stayed NO, and thus his average could have been higher than what it is today. Figure 2760 only represents average runs Dhoni make in one day cricket before getting out 53 times, hence we can safely assume that if all his inning would have got completed, he would have made an extra 2760 runs before getting out 53 times (completing all his 53 not-out innings), thus giving him same average what he has today.

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

Did Misbah get suspended for the Test match in Galle????!!!!

I feel it is really unfair...you can't blame him for everything that happened :/

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

hes he is suspended for 1st test . . .

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

yes he has been , i dont know y they cant keep test n ODI separtely

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

^ so u dont want k misbah ODI team ka part bane :hoonh: . . .

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

i didnt said tht :smack: i m saying k ODI ki penality ODI mei he milay , test mei kyun

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

matlb woi na k u want k w 4-5 odi na khilay
u just hate him becoz of afridi :crying:

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Re: Pakistan vs Srilanka - 5th ODI, 2012

Kill me or what

Bring Back Kamran Akmal For ODI

The Guy Has Played Some Great Match Winning Innings For Us In The Past

Yeah He Sucks in Wicket Keeping Though