Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

Haha, try to read Afghan history first. People who live in glass houses...

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

Yes, Gen Kakar was a Pashtun (Sardar Abdul Rab Nishthar's family) but I don't know whether he joined any US think-tank or not...And yes, Fazl-ul-Haq is the was the governer of NWFP...

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

Gone are the days of Empire-building...On Afghan side, a sea change has occured with Tajiks, Uzbaks, and Hazara fully autonomous in the north...Same thing should happen elsewhere...

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

Ahh...the US agenda working so perfectly. Your average dumbass thinking in terms of artifical boundaries created to divide a nation. You guys should be proud of yourselves for your ignorant and backward thinking.

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

That is very true and end result is what we got now, jihadi Talibans who will destroy Pakistan if not tackled soon.

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Re: Pakistan troops ‘lose faith in war on terror’

I’m not saying that we should surrender to talibans, but thats what is happening. And, like it or not we have no policy for FATA and what Army is doing now is only making things worse. Half of the army is with jihadis and other half is busy trying to get Mushrraf “re-elected” president for 5 years. This article by Iran Husain sums it pretty well.

http://dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm

Running out of time

By Irfan Husain

HERE are some snippets from the press that have ruined breakfast for me in the last few days: “Two women beheaded for alleged immorality in Bannu.” “Barbers’ association imposes 5,000 rupee fine for shaving in Mingora, Swat.” “Rocks with Buddhist engravings and images damaged by explosives in Jehanabad, Swat.”

Bannu is around 100 kilometres from Islamabad, in the settled areas of the NWFP. Swat used to be one of our biggest tourist attractions in the days foreigners could come to Pakistan on vacation. So clearly, the notion that extremist violence was restricted to the tribal areas has been overtaken by events.

We used to talk about the creeping Talibanisation of Pakistan over the last decade. Clearly, it is now moving at a much faster pace. One factor that has hastened its encroachment across the country is the presence of clerical-led governments in the North West Frontier Province and Balochistan. By enacting retrogressive laws, and imposing stone-age rules, politicians in these provinces have encouraged extremists to bully citizens into accepting their primitive, Talibanesque lifestyle.

And as large swathes of the country are pushed back to the dark ages, the state remains a silent spectator. As we saw in the Lal Masjid drama, this government is prepared to use endless patience while dealing with Islamic extremism. But when a centrist politician like Nawaz Sharif challenges Musharraf’s authority, all the massive coercive power of the state is deployed to thwart him.

One reason for this one-sided policy is that militants are armed and dangerous, while most mainstream political parties are not violent organisations. As the repeated setbacks the army has suffered in its engagements with extremists has shown, militant groups are more than capable of holding their own. And unlike most political parties, they have only contempt for the laws of the land, and the rule of law.

Another reason for the softly-softly approach is that over the years, a symbiotic relationship has developed between the army and Islamic militants. As far back as 1971, when the army helped set up Al-Badr and Al-Shams in East Pakistan to fight the freedom fighters of the Mukti Bahini, GHQ has recognised the value of militant groups that could fight as adjuncts to regular units.

This lesson came in handy when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, and the ISI, together with the CIA and the Saudis, supported a confusing array of jihadi outfits to combat the Soviets. Using jihad as a rallying cry, thousands of Muslim volunteers from around the world were summoned to join the cause. And Zia, as the dictator of Pakistan, played godfather to local and foreign Islamic militants. In fact, he is the architect of much of the shambles we see around us today.

A decade later, after the Soviet pullout, we had dozens of heavily armed jihadi groups sitting around in the NWFP and Balochistan with no war to fight. Conveniently, the Kashmir insurrection broke out in 1989, and soon, volunteers from outfits like the Lashkar-i-Taiba were pouring across the Line of Control to fight Indian troops. Although they were largely financed by religious groups in Pakistan, their training was organised by serving and retired intelligence agency veterans of the Afghan war. Often, they crossed the LoC under covering artillery fire provided by the army.

Inevitably, all this state-supported armed militancy had a domestic fallout. Since Zia’s decade of devastation, fanatical militants have enjoyed state patronage and legitimacy. As Zahid Husain writes in his book Frontline Pakistan:

“The continuing state patronage of Islamic militancy in return produced an escalation in domestic sectarian conflict. The two were closely intertwined. Pakistan’s elected civilian governments in the 1990s had to bear the brunt of sectarian violence and the resultant insecurity and alienation it generated. Both the Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif governments took steps to combat sectarianism but, given the military’s backing for regional jihad, those efforts failed. The jihad connection made the sectarian militants more strident, and with easy access to sophisticated weapons, they turned more violent.”

Clearly, then, the nexus between the army and militant groups has been deadly for us as well as for the region. And although Musharraf has stated his intention of severing the army’s old ties to these groups, the fact is that they are still flourishing. Battle-hardened in Afghanistan and Kashmir, they are more than a match for the army, as events in Waziristan and elsewhere have shown.

The most recent illustration of their prowess is the ease with which they have captured hundreds of our soldiers, without having to fire a shot. In fact, this is as much of a comment on our army’s morale as it is on the abilities of the militant groups. It would appear that soldiers are finding it difficult to fire on their own countrymen, and would rather surrender than fight what is seen as ‘America’s war’.

Given the fact the army is the only institution in the country capable of fighting the jihadis, but is reluctant to do so for the reasons discussed above, what options do we have? Do we succumb to the forces of darkness, or can we somehow find the resolve and the means to draw the line?

Musharraf’s political compulsions make it difficult for him to crack down on militants, despite his brave words. He is hamstrung by the presence of the MMA in the governments of the NWFP and Balochistan. He is reaping what he sowed: in the 2002 elections, he made it possible for the religious parties to win so many seats for the first time in our history. With the provincial authorities dragging their feet, he cannot use the full strength at his disposal, even if he wanted to. And as we have noted, there is a continuing relationship between individuals in the intelligence agencies and the army and the militants.

Without political will, we cannot hope to win this struggle. And without a political framework, the consensus needed to combat this virus cannot be developed. As long as the military continues to block the political process to serve the ambitions of one man, there can be no hope of forming a broad front of secular and moderate people and parties that constitute civil society.

The battle can still be fought and won, but time is running out for Pakistan.

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

Thanks Shamraz Khan Saib for the illuminating article ... Now is the time we talk about all this candidly and frankly...Aab ham saf saf bathain karain...

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

There are some foolish people here...whose only agenda ..is to raise slogans of psuedo nationalism...of races..and tribes...liek Lastofdinasaurs...khekhasan ..and shriek11....

first one ...worship pashtun idol...and last two..are greter love of sindh..not for islam..or pakistan....

these foolish...just follow ...makkan old traditions before islam...my tribe ..my race is better than you....

for LOD ..pashtunistan ...dramai bazi is moreimportant than being a muslim....

and last two...if thier car tyre puncture..they blame it ..the nail was ..imported from punjab !!!!!

the enemy is about to attack us..and these foolish are keep on worshiping the idols of race..tribes..and provinces.....nonesense...

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

I don't want to defend any of the guppies you listed, but enemy is within us, we are our own enemies, we don't have to be wary of "outsider" enemy anymore.

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

All under US/NATO guns. Afghan Pashtun mentality for the most part still hasn't accepted them as true Afghans, but only as immigrants who should go back to their home countries (despite they have been in Afghanistan for centuries).

Afghanistan's act of voting against Pakistan in 1947 for UN membership was one of the most classless acts in diplomatic history. They simply were not willing to accept the idea of a nation state not built exclusively on ethnicity despite what so many other countries are built around. It's not Pakistan that invaded Afghan lands, but what it inherited from the British (who were given the land by the Afghan ruler). Now you already know my opinions on the ethnic divides in Pakistan and provincial autonomy, but on this issue Afghanistan shot itself in the foot by early on becoming hostile to Pakistan. The results of this stupid mistake are evident even today.

Time for Afghan mentality to radically change if they want to succeed. Same for Pakistanis, but on different issues.

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

they most of the time deceived pakistan..heroin farosh..and ehsan faramosh....

Interview by Dr. LKK
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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

What's the point with all these discussions about afghans and pashtuns and tajiks?

The stink is hitting the fan in pindi and karachi and you are talking abt other countries

Interview by Dr. LKK
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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

If we were talking about bangladesh or timbuktu, then you would be right but the **** from afghanistan is hitting the fan in Pakistan so it is very relevent..

How famous is the person above you?
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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

^ most of the **** is created within pakistan. Govt, army, court, religiosos...the whole place has been fupped. Why talk about some 3pct coming from abroad?

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Re: Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'

There is no religion of terrorists. Those who Pakistani forces are killing are terrorists and not Muslim. A Muslim may become criminal and challenge state (though, a good Muslims would not do that), but apart of becoming criminal and challenging state, these religious retards functioning from Waziristn are doing something that a Muslim would never do, and that is killing innocents, but worse of all is that these people believe on suicide as good deed and only Kafir could believe on suicide as good deed, whereas suicide (of all types) are haram and anyone that believes on suicide (of any type) could not be a Muslim.

Terrorism is same, be that terrorism of pre 9/11 or that terrorism be of post 9/11.

Terrorists are people that terrorize innocent people and force them to follow what they like or believe. They kill those whom they do not like in most horrendous ways (like indiscriminate killings, assassinations, and suicide bombings). But main character of terrorists is that, they openly challenge state with fire arms and do not even hesitate to kill state armed forces.

Before 9/11 these terrorists were doing indiscriminate killings and suicide attacks on sectarian basis and today they are doing the same on sectarian basis (desiring to force their will and understanding of Islam on others). If these terrorists were peaceful citizens, they would have challenged American forces in Afghanistan politically, playing the game of American and winning elections in Afghanistan, but these retarded terrorists know that their public support is near to nothing.

[Anyhow, my concern is not that what they are doing in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not Pakistan and I would not care if Afghanistan goes to dogs. But these retards are using Pakistani land to launch attacks on Afghanistan and that is unacceptable, as that is harmful to the relationship of Pakistan with many countries, plus these retards do not like that Pakistan should enforce their writ on Pakistani lands (FATA included). These people are confronting with Pakistan forces with arms and killing Pakistani forces in Pakistan (that is unforgivable crime). These retards are also threat to Pakistan, and they are involved in most terrorism in Pakistani].

Pakistan is not fighting these terrorists for America but Pakistan is fighting them for Pakistan. No Pakistanis would like to see that these terrorists become strong in Pakistan and start trying to impose their ‘shaitanic beliefs’ on Pakistanis by force. Hence fighting these retarded terrorists is duty of all Pakistanis. Pak army fighting and killing them is a duty they are fulfilling to save Pakistan from these retards.

Talk to whom? Terrorist who are brainwashed and are working for Shaitan? One can only talk to sensible people, not senseless brainwashed retarded armed terrorists. Nevertheless, Pakistan army is acting on Pakistani lands and no person should have arms in Pakistan to fight Pakistani forces. If anyone would have arms and fire on Pak army, that means challenging the state and there could be no pardon for that. These people have to give up their arms and surrender. There is no alternative to that for these retards. If they would not disarm themselves, they have to get killed.

Actually, you are right that there is problem in Pakistani wrong policy towards them. Pakistan should not talk to these people but give them same treatment that Saddam gave to Kurds. Pakistan is trying to appease criminals and make them submit to state rule peacefully, but that is certainly a wrong policy. President Musharraf is too soft with them. Selective and half-hearted soft military operation against them is certainly a wrong thing to do. Action that Pakistan government need against these retards is hard and clinical approach.

Pakistan should use heavy selective bombing than army should enter the area and kill anyone that they feel suspicious, combing the whole area in war like fashion. Pakistan armed forces should start this operation knowing that it will cost some political fall out in Pakistan. Pakistan government should realise that these terrorists are dangerous for future security of Pakistan, and thus these people cannot be left alone alive to live another day.

You are right, Pakistan troops are dying and so are many innocent people in FATA and it is possible that military morale is getting low (though I do not believe that). You are right that people of FATA must be unhappy with the situation.

But I think that if Pakistan government start taking hard steps (bombing the area and then combing the area to get rid of all criminals) things would change. Army must be feeling morally low because Pakistan government is not acting hard. I think that once policy would change from soft approach to hard approach, things would become better and peace would come to FATA quickly. I think that people of FATA should also demand from Pakistan government to act hard so that they can get rid of criminals from amongst them.

As for suicide bombing being first in history of Pakistan, that is misinformation. I think that you do not read a lot or have short memory. Suicide bombing and indiscriminate killings started much before 9/11. It was terrorist activities of these religious retards that included indiscriminate killings, bombing Mosques and Imam-bargahs, bombing religious gatherings, assassinations of religious scholars (belonging to different sects), suicide bombings, etc … that became so troubling in Pakistan that Nawaz Shareef government started terrorist courts in order to curb sectarian terrorist activities in Pakistan. These religious retards wanted to impose their misguided Islam all over Pakistan by force. If you do not believe me, do some research on terrorist court cases from the time terrorist courts started functioning in Pakistan.