[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
As to Ghaznavi, I know for sure that my history books said that he invaded India 17 times and finally beat Prithviraj Chauhan.
[/QUOTE]
Your history is confused between Ghauri and Ghaznvi
You’re right, my bad. :o
ShahabudDin Ghori was the one who finally defeated Prithviraj Chauhan
But my point is that Indian history books did not rewrite that as a “victory” for the Rajputs. 
As to Mahmud Ghaznavi’s earlier raids, we did learn that he came and ransacked 17 times and did defeat kings who stood in the way.
We certainly did not “learn” that Ghaznavi was defeated 17 times. That is a claim I’d like to see proof of or withdrawn
There is simply no evidence that Indian history textbooks are filled with anything near the types of lies or religious stereotyping or bigotry that are found in Pakistani government mandated books. BJP idiots tried to put in some crap but got rebuffed mostly. Even the ones they got in will be gone soon, thanks to the secular govt in place now.
challo ji, Pakistanis have bad curriculum and that has been a cause of intolerance. what is the cause on the Indian side?
either way, its a good step that curriculum is being sorted out in both countries, hopefully the future generations will not have to bicker like the current one is doing in this thread.
http://www.outlookindia.com/submain1_v2.asp?mode=25&refer=10840&rcount=12
karunkk 9/19/2003 4:19:43 AM ( # 21 of 31 )
Have u heard of “Alexander the great” a.k.a. Sikander?
He wasn’t greater then Porus, who defeated Alexander 14 times. But the mistake Porus did was letting him go all the time and spared his life.
India and Pakistan has the similar story, India keep letting it go but believe me it won’t take them 14 chances.
Wake up India…
This is from an educated Indian. When you read the other comments you will realize the hatred oozing from the Indians. I have read an Indian History book where Tippu Sultan has been described as a cruel bigot who brutalized the Hindus. On the other hand his tolerance of other religions can be seen from the fact that he built a mosque, a church and a temple in Srirangapatam. Now the Indians are treating him as a hero to win Muslim favor. Don’t talk of history Talwar. I have read more Indian history than you can even imagine. I can quote more sources but it will be a waste of time.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aejaz: *
Brother El Turki,
You can't compare the BJP to the Jamat-i-Islami because Jamati-Islami is no way even close to the realm of power that BJP currently enjoys in Hind.
BJP is now the dominant party in Hind! : the people have by choice installed a govt. , the single major party of which rose out of obscurity in the 70's on the platform on Hindutva.
What do you know about politics if anything??
I am sure you are pretty Ignorant about it as you have never seen any thing other than Monarchy!!
Politics in India/Pakistan is holding on to the seat/Power, if you know or recall during the Babri Masjid Problem it was the Congress that was in power, and BJP/Shiv Sena were in opposition, hence the problems, but once BJP/Shiv Sena came to power the problems Diminished, can you even comprehand what I am trying to say here, (I believe not so let me make it easier for you), It means the party in Power wants less Problems and if that means I have to vote for BJP then so be it. DO YOU GET IT????
Also, Pakistan always wanted to be a Muslim state (that's another matter that it really even struggles today to reach that aim).
But India (and even BJP) claim to be secular but only a cursory examination reveals that this certainly isn't the case.
What gives you the Authority to JUDGE that Pakistan is still struggling to be an Islamic State, (please Explain, and yes dont give me the run around please do explain your statement)
And about your doubts of India being Secular, I am wondering are you Chewing Gaath??
Do these Names make any sense to you?
Presidents of India.
1- Dr Zakir Hussain
2- Justice Hidayatullah
3- Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed
4- Dr A.P.J Abdul Kalam
Vice Presidents of India.
1- Dr Zakir Hussain
2- Justice Hidayatullah
Governers of Indian States
1- Jang Mir Osman Ali Khanm 1950 to 1956 Hyderabad
2- Sir Mohamed Salid Akbar Hydari 1947 to 1948 Assam
3- Sir Saiyad Fazal Ali 1956 to 1959 Assam
4- Zakir Hussain 1957 to 1962 Bihar
5- Akhlaqur Rehman Kidwai 1979 to 1985 Bihar
6- Mohammad Yunus Saleem 1990 to 1991 Bihar
7- Mohhamed Shafi Qureshi 1991 to 1993 Bihar
8- Akhlaqur Rehman Kidwai 1993 to 1998 Bihar
9- Idris Hasan Latif 1982 to 1983 Dadra and Nagar Haveli
10- Idris Hasan Latif July 1984 to Sep 1984 Dadra and Nagar Haveli
11- Khurshed Alam Khan 18 Jul 1989 - 25 Mar 1991 Goa
12- Mohammad Fazal 1999 to 2002 Goa
13- Mehdi Nawaz Jung 1960 to 1965 Gujarat
14- Saiyid Muzaffar Husain Burney 1984 to 1988 Haryana
15- Amin ad-Din Ahmad Khan 1977 to 1981 Himachal Pradesh
16- Gulsher Ahmed June 1993 to Nov 1993 Himachal Pradesh
17- Khurshed Alam Khan 1991 to 1995 Karnataka
18- Khurshed Alam Khan 1996 to 1997 Kerala
19- Sikander Bakht 2002 to Feb 2004 Kerala
20- W Shaiza 1973 to 1975 Lakshadweep
21- Wajahat Habibullah 1987 to 1990 Lakshadweep
22- Kunwar Mahmood Ali Khan 1990 to 1993 Madhya Pradesh
23- Mohammed Shafi Qureshi 1993 to 1998 Madhya Pradesh
24- Mohamedali Currim Chagla Oct 1956 to Dec 1956 Maharashtra
25- Ali Yavar Jung Bahadur 1970 to 1976 Maharashtra
26- R.M.Kantawala 1976 to 1977 Maharashtra
27- Dr Sadiq Ali 1977 to 1980 Maharashtra
28- Idris Hasan Latif 1982 to 1985 Maharashtra
29- Mohammed Fazal 2002 till date Maharashtra
30- Saiyid Muzaffar Husain Burney 1981 to 1984 Manipur
31- Abubakar Abdul Rahim 1989 to 1991 Meghalaya
32- Janab M. Asaf Ali 1948 to 1952 Orissa
33- Sir Saiyid Fazl Ali 1952 to 1954 Orissa
34- Shaukatullah Shah Ansari 1968 to 1971 Orissa
35- Akbar Ali Khan 1974 to 1976 Orissa
36- Nurul Hasan 1988 to 1990 Orissa
37- Nurul Hasan Feb 1993 to May 1993 Orissa
38- Hafiz Mohammed Ibrahim 1964 to 1965 Punjab
39- Amin ad-Din Ahmad Khan 1981 to 1982 Punjab
40- Dr Sadiq Ali 1980 to 1982 Tamil Nadu
41- Fathima Beevi 1997 t0 2001 Tamil Nadu
42- Akbar Ali Khan 1972 to 1974 Uttar Pradesh
43- Mohammed Usman Arif 1985 to 1990 Uttar Pradesh
44- Mohammed Shafi Qureshi May 1996 to Sep 1996 Uttar Pradesh
45- Mohammed Shafi Qureshi Mar 1998 to Apr 1998 Uttar Pradesh
46- Nurul Hasan 1986 to 1989 West Bengal
47- Nurul Hasan 1990 to 1993 West Bengal
48- Akhlaqur Rahman Kidwai 1988 to 1999 West Bengal
Chief Ministers of Indian States.
1- Anwara Taimur 1971 to 1981 Assam
2- Abdul Ghafoor 1973 to 1975 Bihar
3- Abdul Rahman 1980 to 1982 Maharashtra
4- Mohammed Alimuddin 1972 to 1973 Manipur
5- Mohammed Alimuddin Mar 1974 to Jul 1974 Manipur
6- M.O. Hasan Farook Maricar 1967 to 1968 Pondicherry
7- M.O. Hasan Farook Maricar 1969 to 1974 Pondicherry
8- M.O. Hasan Farook Maricar 1983 to 1989 Pondicherry
9- Barkatullah Khan 1971 to 1973 Rajasthan
10- Kazi Lhendup Dorji 1975 to 1979 Sikkim
And I have not even started with the Arts (Bars and Dancers in your Version of English)
Like I said Earlier If you have any issues then please do open a new thread where we can discuss any issues you have on your mind.
regards.
Aejaz
[/QUOTE]
Just by having muslim names on posts you have mentioned is not enough. Were they able to save the muslims from carnage?
And please don't give lectures on Secularism when you don't know what it is. Here is an analysis from someone who has conducted research on secularism for forty years:-
Brotherhood of Darkness by Dr. Stanley Monteith
1.Reject traditional religious beliefs, and seek “new human purposes and goals.” Humanists proclaim there is “no divine purpose or providence for human species… No deity will save us; we must save ourselves.”
2.Reject as both illusory and harmful the “promises of immortal salvation or fear of eternal damnation…” which are the basis of both Judiac and Christian beliefs.
3.Believe that “moral values derive…from human experience. Ethics is autonomous and situational,” and that we should “strive for the good life, here and now.” Thus humanists believe that individuals determine what is right and wrong.
4.Believe that “reason and intelligence” will guide mankind to a better world.
5.Stress individual freedom without moral restraints.
6.Recognize “… the right to birth control, abortion, and divorce,” and that “…the many varieties of sexual exploration should not in themselves be considered ‘evil’.” Thus humanists condone homosexuality and other forms of sexual perversion.
7.Support concepts of individual freedom such as “an individual’s right to die with dignity, euthanasia, and the right to suicide, and the right to suicide.”
8.Advocate democracy and participatory democracy rather than a republican form of government.
9.Advocate “the separation of church and state and the separation if ideology and state.” This program was designed to remove both God and prayer from public schools.
10.Advocate “alternate economic systems.” And the need to “democratize the economy.” Humanists promote socialism.
11.Advocate the “elimination of all discrimination based upon race, religion, sex, age, or national origin,” and “the right to universal education.” They also oppose “sexism or sexual chauvinism.” This requires government control over every aspect of our lives.
12.Support the ending of nationhood and national sovereignty, and advocate a “world community”.
13.State that “this world community must renounce the resort to violence and force as a method of solving international disputes.” They want a world government which includes an international court.
14.Advocated that “the world community … engage in cooperative planning concerning the use of rapidly depleting resources … population growth must be checked.” This is the basis of modern-day environmentalism and population control.
So, you admit that Indian TEXT BOOKs say " The Indians believe that Raja Porus defeated Alexander 14 times and Pritviraj Chauhan defeated Mahmud Gaznavi 17 times." was a big lie? 
Some anonymous “Indian” poster posted it on a web forum and it could have even been you, for all we know :hehe:
Please post the book name and page number for the Indian History TEXT book which says Tipu Sultan was a tyrant.
We are talking about what is officially sponsored in Pakistan and India, not what some fake internet posters say.
Finally, as to the list posted by Aejaz and your response, can you please tell me how many Shias, Ahmedis and Christians have been saved by their leaders in Pakistan
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
Finally, as to the list posted by Aejaz and your response, can you please tell me how many Shias, Ahmedis and Christians have been saved by their leaders in Pakistan ;)
[/QUOTE]
Is Pakistan a secular state? NO! So why would you expect that ? Only Ahmedis and Christians cannot be leaders since they are non-Muslims.
^Laeeq,
I said "saved." Please read the post above by tshombe39
Despite having Shia leaders, Shias are getting butchered in Pakistan with government support. Same goes for Ahmedis and Christians.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
^Laeeq,
I said "saved." Please read the post above by tshombe39
Despite having Shia leaders, Shias are getting butchered in Pakistan with government support. Same goes for Ahmedis and Christians.
[/QUOTE]
Pakistani leaders are by and large unpresentative of Pakistanis.
lol man. u r funny but u hit the nail on its head! these indians are over-obsessed with pakistan. u can see that on this forum n in bollywood as well! lol. all this over obsession is a result of hatred and lack of tolerance. they will spend a good part of their lives trying to either justify themselves to pakis or criticize pakistan in any which way they can. they got nothin better to do. lol. thats sad actually.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *
Exactly, stick to the topic folks. What are the mods doing ignoring this? If you want to discuss bjp open a new thread, don't clutter up this thread with lame arguments. Or is it too embarrassing to discuss Pakistan's educational system? Don't blame you, I'd be embarrassed too.;)
[/QUOTE]
y don u just stay quiet girl n look at ur education system first. Gosh, some people are so ignorant.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
Haan Shayad iska yeh vajay ho sakta hai ki Pakistan may minorties ko laakhon ke tadad main pahlay say hi maara jata tha. 1971 yaad hain kya ;)
Jo najayz bachay hain, ab unko imambarghon main, churh main aur hudood kachharay main maara ja raha hain na, roz idhar dus aur udhar bees ;)
[/QUOTE]
u sound like film-makers in india. all u people's facts are fakes
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
^Laeeq,
I said "saved." Please read the post above by tshombe39
Despite having Shia leaders, Shias are getting butchered in Pakistan with government support. Same goes for Ahmedis and Christians.
[/QUOTE]
there is NO government support involved. this is a gang war between shia n sunni extremist groups. more shias get killed because sunnis outnumber n outpower them. shias, ahmediyyahs, aga-khanis, n boris in general enjoy great social n economic status in pakistan despite their small number. n their is no discrimination. a large number of entertainment industry n businessman are from minority groups. eg: ali haider, fakhr-e-alam among many many others.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by akpower: *
there is NO government support involved. this is a gang war between shia n sunni extremist groups. more shias get killed because sunnis outnumber n outpower them. shias, ahmediyyahs, aga-khanis, n boris in general enjoy great social n economic status in pakistan despite their small number. n their is no discrimination. a large number of entertainment industry n businessman are from minority groups. eg: ali haider, fakhr-e-alam among many many others.
[/QUOTE]
To them, everything is gov supported. They dont know or realise the ground realitites and are so called armchair "warriors", "politicians", "Generals", and "strategists"... Let them feel happy about their pethetic existance... Its a joke! :D
Nice reply though AKPOWER!
Who supported Sipah-i-Sahaba and Jaish-e-Mohammed? Hint → Invisible Soldiers Incorporated 
Read some newspapers first 
Read some new articles and get with the times, othewise please refrain from posting nonsense!
Are you saying that the ISI was not behind SSP and JEM?
could we please bother to stay on the topic?
same few people screwing up every damn thread.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
could we please bother to stay on the topic?
same few people screwing up every damn thread.
[/QUOTE]
I have no issues with that.
The fact does stand that Pakistani government sponsored curriculum engenders hatred against India and Hindus while India's does not.
right so indian hatred for pakistanis is innate versus pakistani hatred for Indians is indoctrination..makes sense. :D
anyways, this was a good topic, but same old pissing contests between the usual suspects screwed this over too.