Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
So overall, no one has countered Saleem's points but instead talked in circles....
So it suggests to me that people who beleive that children were killed in that air strike have no proof to back it up
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
I do not care if these people are some cutie pattotie in a school dress running around in circles. If you raise your guns against Pakistan Army, you are my enemy.
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
exactly
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
Not stupid at all, esp as the majotity of Pakistan have no confidence in this govt.
The vast majority on this board blindly supporting Army/Mush come from Army families
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
The vast majority on this board blindly supporting Army/Mush come from Army families
and you are blindly supporting these terrorists who have killed thousands of innocent pakistanis in their terrorist campaigns such as the sunni-shia fighting and such....
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
^^if thats true then what was this molvi doing a free man? surely he would or should have been picked up years ago! just highlights the governments past and present faillures.
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
I expected a better resposnce from u than some of the guys here.. main reason for attacking the madrassa as assessed by most here in Pakistan is the peace deal that wa sto take place exactly 5 hours from the attach the same morning.. it was second of its kind after waziristan deal which had made USA so angry few days back.. what was the logic of attacking some place few hours before the attack.. most probably as all have noted it was not Pak army but USA that attacked the place.. the amount of damage that occoured leave no doubt that missiles were fired and destructed everything.. no bodies were identifiable and what remained was small body parts under rubble if u see the pics of the destruction.. madrassa was a boardinh house as most of these are.. 35 students were hafiz-e-quran.. just by assuming the the kids were being indoctrined doesnt mean tio kill them all and celebrate.. i have met people from waziristan where army have in past killed scores of innocents and claimed them as terrorists.. its a survival tactic for a govt that supports USA so called was against terrorism by providing them bodies as a score ..
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
YES - sectarian terrorist Maulvi Liaquat was head of this terrorist school.
I dont know where u suppose the incident happened!!! it was in remore tribal area and soon after the attack the whole area was sealed by army and no one even the local leaders were allowed to go near the place.. so where and who will take pics of the bodies!!! but there are so mnay pics of people protesting and crying all over Pakisytan papers.. please think before u write such intellegent speculations..
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
he wasnt picked up because he is hiding in the lawless FATA region...
And when we send our forces to bring law and order to that region they get attacked upon....
No other country on the Planet has a similar arrangement in which a large portion of that country can be used to host terrorist activities, people govern by their own laws and when the military is send it, it is fired upon and yet these animals then demand why the governement doesnt provide for them
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
I admit our government is not perfect but its not in the habit of killing its own people....
Musharraf is an egregious liar.stop. And what about 'your' troops that have been killing innocent civilians for almost 6 decades.
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
The army created and nurtured Frankenstein has come home to roost. Now it's time to reap what they sowed.
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
And when we send our forces to bring law and order to that region they get attacked upon....
No other country on the Planet has a similar arrangement in which a large portion of that country can be used to host terrorist activities, people govern by their own laws and when the military is send it, it is fired upon and yet these animals then demand why the governement doesnt provide for them
he was not hiding but mererly living in his home.. is there any evidence govt asked for him? as already mentioned above there would had been an agreement between tribal area and govt for the same purpose by which govt could investigate and get any suspected ones.. but it was sabotaged by a random attack on a madrassa..
Re: Pakistan ‘suicide blast kills 35’
Kids stop the senseless talks like who was doing what at 5 a.m in the madarsa. Listen carefully what uncle Ayaz is saying, it may knock some sense into your heads.
Our devil’s bargain
By Ayaz Amir
ONCE again our helplessness in dealing with our American friends stands fully exposed. A missile hits a religious school in the Bajaur Agency close to the Afghan border killing 83 persons, mostly young students, and the army command is reduced to spinning a cover-up story which everyone has difficulty swallowing.
** Army spokesman Major Gen Shaukat Sultan, who deserves national sympathy for the visible agony he undergoes when in the line of duty, he has to churn out creative fiction, says the school was a ‘militant’ training facility and that the operation was carried out by the Pakistan military.
** Going one step further, and showing more zeal than discretion, Gen Musharraf declares that anyone saying that the persons killed in the seminary were not militants is lying. The White House press secretary, Tony Snow (formerly of Fox News), praises the general for his “determination” in fighting terrorism. More such certificates of approval and our embarrassment would be complete.
** If only the cover-up story had held. It was blown by ABC News which, quoting sources in the intelligence community, reported that the missile was fired by an American Predator drone and that the target was the Al Qaeda Number Two, Ayman Al-Zawahiri.**
We have had trouble because of Zawahiri before. In January this year a house in the village of Damadola, also in Bajaur, was struck by a missile, the target again Al-Zawahiri who — wait for this — was expected for dinner, the first we knew that the Al Qaeda leadership had leisure enough to accept dinner invitations in Pakistan’s tribal areas.
Eighteen people died in that attack. Of course we covered up for the Americans, protesting loudly that our sovereignty had not been violated. All the evidence suggests we are doing so again, owning up to another misfired American adventure. We should be defining the limits of collaboration while the army command would be doing itself a favour if it could decide how much embarrassment it is legitimate to earn because of Pakistan’s ‘frontline’ status.
The tribal belt is already aflame with anti-American sentiment. We could have done without this latest outrage which has caused more anger to spread across the entire region bordering Afghanistan.
Only with great difficulty was a sort of peace brokered in North Waziristan back in September, bringing much-needed respite to the army which found itself in a quagmire. A peace agreement was also about to be concluded in Bajaur, indeed on the very day of the killings in the Ziaul Uloom seminary. It has now gone up in smoke and even the Waziristan agreement, unless our luck holds, is in danger of unravelling.
** Why was Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti killed in Balochistan so easily? Because the force at his disposal was no match for the army. Why did the army, through the Frontier governor Lt Gen. Aurakzai, conclude peace with the militants of North Waziristan? Because the army tried to pacify North and South Waziristan by force and failed dismally, suffering heavy casualties. Waziri and Mahsud resistance had proved too hot to handle.
**
** Peace, in other words, was dictated not by a sudden onrush of wisdom but sheer necessity.** Now our American friends, flailing in the dark, chasing shadows in both Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving the world amazed with their incredible capacity for blundering, have thrown another oil-soaked fire-rag in Pakistan’s direction, leaving us to deal with the fallout as best as we can.
Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and North Korea have learned to handle American hostility. We are having a hard time handling American friendship.
We are still living with the consequences of General Ziaul Haq’s American-assisted, American-sponsored Afghan jihad, a huge cold war victory for the United States, a disaster for us. The militancy in our tribal regions is a child of that experience.
Now we are pawns in another American-driven venture, a misdirected crusade which far from bringing peace is leading to more militancy and violence. Before the army went into Waziristan, there was only one Nek Muhammad (later killed in another drone attack). We have now lost count of the Nek Muhammads since created.
It is not our fault the Taliban are gaining strength in Afghanistan. The Americans misjudged the whole situation by forgetting that Afghanistan in recent history has not been a land hospitable to foreign invaders and occupiers. They thought they had gained an easy Afghan victory in 2001, as indeed the Russians did when their army blundered into Kabul in Dec, 1979, little realising that the Taliban were doing what guerrilla armies do in the face of superior force: retreat and lie low until strong enough to take on the enemy. The initiative has now passed to the Taliban who withdraw when they have to and strike when they can.
With Iraq already a nightmare and Afghanistan turning into another endless stretch, the US is hardly in a position to tell us what to do. Indeed, to judge by the current record, following its prescriptions is the surest recipe for disaster. The Talibanisation of North and South Waziristan, and now the threatened Talibanisation of Bajaur, are direct outcomes of the course we were led to pursue under American pressure.
True, for better or worse we entered into a bargain with the Americans in what was billed as a “war on terror” but which increasingly looks like an assault on common sense. We are being paid for our pains — although the argument is still fresh in Pakistan that we could have concluded a better deal — which puts us under an obligation to work towards Afghan stability by curbing militancy along the Afghan border. This is also in our long-term interest because in our tribal belt it is the writ of the Pakistani state which should prevail and not the writ of the Taliban.
Encouraging or assisting the Taliban is not in our interest. We have enough bigotry and extremism of our own. We can do without any contribution that the Taliban can make in this regard. We should curb the cross-border movement of militant elements wherever we can. If there are training camps of any sort on our soil we should do what we can to uproot them.
** But let’s also remember that the problem of religion-inspired extremism is linked to our quest for finding the holy grail of democracy. Extremism is not just a problem in the tribal areas. Strange notions of jihad and strategic depth lurk in the mindset of the army command and the intelligence services.**
** Rooting out these notions requires not the spurious nostrums of moderation at which Gen Musharraf has become so skilful but a move towards a genuine democracy in which the army’s sole function should be to look after national defence and confine itself strictly to its role under the Constitution. Military rule has been the mother of extremism in Pakistan. Let us never forget this.**
There are so many jihads waiting to be fought — against disease, poverty, illiteracy, religious bigotry — that we should have no time or inclination for any other. We must return to being a normal country, working to improve our own condition rather than think of putting our hands to solving the problems of the universe.
But we must approach the problem of militancy our own way, taking account of history and the special circumstances of the tribal areas rather than allowing ourselves to be pushed into hasty and ill-conceived actions because of the feverish workings of American desperation. We had trouble enough in Waziristan and now the Americans have endeavoured to destabilise Bajaur for us. The Pakistan army cannot afford to dig more holes for itself. The president of Pakistan should consider whether it becomes him and the office he holds to become an unthinking apologist for American folly.
We should be friends with America and derive advantage from this friendship. But where our vital interests are concerned, we should not take our marching orders from it. We should rely on our own judgment and learn to think for ourselves.
Re: Pakistan ‘suicide blast kills 35’
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\11\09\story_9-11-2006_pg7_14
**Govt’s list of men in Bajaur madrassa **
Fazal Hakim Gul Rehman (24), ID card number 21104-8775902-7; Gul Hassan Hassan Khan (31), ID card number 21106-9961068-1; Nawab Khan Amirzada (31), ID card number 21106-6509903-9; Sultanat Khan Shamasur Rehman (25), ID card number 21106-6091459-1; Ismail Khan Syed Ahmed Jan (29), ID card number 21106-2272751-3; Zaheruddin Sirajuddin (20), ID card number 21103-6101877-1; Abdul Karim Abdullah Jan (33), ID 21103-0758643-3; Hayatullah Gambir Khan (27), ID card number 21104-2176568-5; Wali Syed Muhammad Saeed (24), ID card number 21104-2164234-7; Tehsil Khan Sher Zaman Khan (22), ID card number 21104-4020392-1, Ziaur Rehman Taj Muhammad (23) ID card number 21104-4034785-3; Ikramullah Sultan Zameen (27), ID card number 21104-6679526-9; Inayatur Rehman Fateh Rehman (23) ID card number 21104-3595323-9; Rahatullah Sultan Zameen (23) ID card number 21104-5814315-7; Khan Muhammad Khan Jan (34), 21104-6844541-5; Shahabuddin Fatehur Rehman (28), ID card number 21107-4283034-3; Karim Khan Gul Karim Khan (32), ID card number 21106-4641127-7; Sharifullah Azam Khan (30), ID card number 21106-9943369-5; Muhammad Younis Rahim Jan (20), ID card number 21104-7647640-1; Inayatur Rehman Rafiullah (24), ID card number 15306-3387605-3; Iftikhar Khan Sher Zaman (25), ID card number 16102-2279987-1; and Shah Jahan Gul Jan (20), ID card number 21104-6731970-7.
The men whose ages only were released are Abdul Waris Mussafar (20), Muhammad Ishaq Lali Mullah (23), Rehmatullah Fazal Sher (34), Maulvi Liaquat Abdur Rahim (40), Muhammad Tahir Khalifa (26), Ghulam Nabi Bacha Khan (25), Fazal Subhan (30), Saleem Mohammad Karim (20), Bakht Munir Adam (30), Gul Sher Habib (30), Jamrooz Yar Zaman (24), Noor Muhamad Chanaray (21), Fazal-e-Wahab Abdul Saboor (26), Namer Bismillah Khan (35) and Shabbir Gul Amin (20).
Re: Pakistan ‘suicide blast kills 35’
A much more professional list with ID numbers and full names, rather than the one compiled by the locals under the “directives” of the maulvi that reported them as “Ishan, son of Ghulam”. No, those names were not plucked out of nowhere really, they were not…
Re: Pakistan ‘suicide blast kills 35’
Yes, do listen to “ayaz”, he is saying these extremists are monsters, they are bent on killing, and the only thing he is suggesting is that the Americans fired the missiles at them..why is it so unbelievable to imagine Pak firing missiles into the buiding? They dont have missiles or something? Also the article goes on about democracy, and under the extremists that you seem to believe readily, there’s not going to be any democracy. Musharraff is at least laying the foundations for it.
Re: Pakistan ‘suicide blast kills 35’
These are around 37 people, what about the other 43/44?
Re: Pakistan ‘suicide blast kills 35’
Also, the ISPR made a key point, which makes you suspect the figures provided by the MMA of those killed in the bajur attack, the ages etc.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\11\09\story_9-11-2006_pg1_6
All killed in Bajaur were adults: ISPR
ISLAMABAD: The government has claimed that the people killed in a Bajaur madrassa were aged 20 or above. The ISPR refuted politicians’ statements that the people who died were between 7 and 34. **“Locals buried the bodies without showing them to the media,” **said a spokesman. He provided a list of 37 men, with their fathers’ names and their ages.
Re: Pakistan ‘suicide blast kills 35’
Since when is ISPR known as a ‘beacon of truth and honesty’?!
Re: Pakistan 'suicide blast kills 35'
they are a lot more trust worthy than the jihal maulvis who live on FATA