Yesterday, I was talking to an Army friend of mine from my home city in Punjab, and discussed the Dardai situation with him. He told me " first, there was some resentment from some people at what had happened at Bajur, but now people are rallying around the army, and very angry at whoever did the attack". Whatever people may or may not think of the govt, when it comes to the Army people are very, very patriotic and supportive of it. The Dardai attack was a major blunder by the terrorists if they thought that they could start conflict amongst Pakistani people.
ISLAMABAD, Nov 8: The Dargai attack, because of its sheer enormity and the chosen target, has suddenly taken the bloody conflict between the Pakistani security establishment and the Fata-based militants to a new and, perhaps, a more dangerous level.
In some ways it’s a clear indication that for the new and more radical band of militants in the tribal region the ordinary Pakistani troops have become as much a legitimate target as some of the high-profile political and military figures have been in the recent past. Until now only the officers and soldiers deployed in the conflict zone along the border with Afghanistan and those taking part in the security operation against the pro-Taliban tribal militants had come under attack.
Since the start of phase two of the anti Al Qaeda operation, when Pakistan was tasked with eliminating Islamic extremists from its midst, the militants groups operating outside Waziristan had mostly gone for high-profile targets such as President General Pervez Musharraf, top military commanders, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and foreign nationals.
In the past, President Musharraf survived several organised, and some half-baked, attempts on his life, the two attacks in December 2003 being the most serious move to assassinate him. A few months later, one of his then corps commander in Karachi and now the vice chief of army staff, General Ahsan Saleem Hayat, miraculously escaped a major bid to kill him. Similarly, Shaukat Aziz remained unhurt when a suicide bomber blew himself up right next to his bullet-proof car when he was campaigning in Attock shortly before becoming the prime minister. Since then the security of the president, prime minister and a number of top officials has been enhanced considerably – some moving with more than one identical bullet-proof limousine in a bid to deceive the likely assailants.
However, the latest suicide bombing has pushed the conflict on to an entirely different plane. It has made the common soldiers or anyone else associated with the state as vulnerable as the leadership and thus indicates that in the coming weeks and months it may turn into a real nasty conflict.
No matter how valid President Musharraf´s reasons for fighting the Islamic extremists, the growing perception among the people, and to an extent among some in the lower ranks of the armed forces, has been that his actions are all dictated by the United States.
The so-called war on terror, and the constant pressure from the Americans for quick results, has pushed the Pakistani military establishment deeper and deeper into a mess which is nearly impossible to manage. During this action the Pakistani forces have used even jet aircraft and helicopter gunships to — in George Bush’s parlance — smoke out the terrorists.
The difference is that while Mr Bush has been using his military might thousands of miles away from home in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Pakistani forces are being used to pound parts of their own territory. And this is making many Pakistanis, particularly the tribesmen in the border region, quite anxious.
Tall claims of winning the war notwithstanding, the latest attack clearly shows that the security establishment has continued to falter both in tactics and the overall strategy against the militants. Many analysts of the present-day tribal region insist that today the strength of those willing to fight alongside the Taliban, against both foreign and Pakistani troops, is many times more than what it was four years ago. Having no recollection of close and brotherly relations with the military establishment of yesteryears, the new recruits among the militants ranks felt no hesitation in targeting non-combatant Pakistani troops.
But what does it mean for the government (read: military’s) strategy to deal with the situation? Indeed it’s a complex issue and has its roots in the military establishment’s policy of the past to promote and nurture militants for domestic and regional goals. And the establishment’s seemingly half-hearted attempts to reverse the cycle of religious-conservatism have made the task even more difficult.
Of course, even if the authorities were to admit of the past involvement in fanning militancy for their political and diplomatic gains, it will not be easy to uproot the extremists who are apparently well-entrenched, not just in the tribal areas but many other parts of the country.
Court martial proceedings of earlier cases involving PAF and army soldiers show how the militants had, over the years, managed to create a level of acceptability for themselves among some of the lower-ranks. While there was a purge of sorts after the discovery that some forces personnel were involved in the two conspiracies to assassinate General Musharraf, its not clear whether a detailed study has been carried out of how deep-rooted the problem is, and if there has been any subsequent action.
One thing is clear. The Islamic militants regard President Musharraf and those associated with him as their enemy, and will do whatever is possible to get them out of the way. Time and again they have also proved that, no matter how misplaced their beliefs , they are capable of operating with lethal zeal. But, in their zeal to target and isolate President Musharraf, have the militants gone too far? In the past they have tried to drive a wedge between soldiers and their leadership but the Dargai massacre may prove to be a compelling rallying cry for the rank and file of the army - one that has been missing so far.
even if you do not agree with the military govt decision to terminate those parasites in bajaur, what does an avg footsoldier have to do with such decision making. An avg soldier is there to protect his country and to follow orders. do you really think that the soldiers who died planned or executed that attack?
so even if we were to beleive that the 80 ppl killed were innocent, killing other innocents in retaliation is a rather simplistic and trialistic approach ..
I believe every word that Shaukat Sultan said regarding the composition of those killed in Madrassa attack and lies of locals and MMA leaders. This conclusion is based on analysing the evidence logically.
** Points to remember when making conclusion:**
One: Madrassa stay close for sometime after EID, usually 15 days or more. This attack happened within a week of EID. Eid in Pakistan was on Wednesday (25th October) and this bombing happened during night between Sunday (29th October) and Monday (30th October). Just before morning of 30th October.
Two: This madrassa was one floor building with rooms and compound. It was not boarding Madrassa where young children live (the age of those killed confirms that, from list with NIC numbers).
Three: 5 AM at night is not a time for studying, when sunrise time was around 6-30 AM. No one studies in dark.
Four: Ages of madrassa students are not 20 years old or over, they are mostly between 6 years to 14 years old. Those killed were 20 years old or over, from list with NIC numbers.
Five: Proof of locals and MMA cover-up (regarding ages of killed) shows from their claim that all except one killed were under the age of 20, when all names released with their NIC number shows that they were mostly in their mid twenties or in thirties. This proof itself confirms that locals and MMA was hiding that sinister nature of those in Madrassa.
Six: Cover-up and claims based on lies, by MMA and locals, is certain proof that even though the people in madrassa were not students (all were 20 years and over), these liars wanted all to believe that they were (claiming them to be under 20 that all turned out to be lies). In the process, these MMA people confirmed that they are party of liars.
Seven and conclusion:
Link of that madrass with criminals and terrorist, like Maulvi Liaqat Ali, shows that this madrassa was legitimate target.
Since those killed were not student, they were all over twenty years old, being in madrassa at that time of the night, in such number, confirm that they were criminals and terrorists. Thus, they were legitimate target.
Need by MMA and locals to cover-up their age so that they can try to prove them student and innocents, shows that MMA is party of liars, and the people gathered in madrassa at that time of night within four to five days after Eid, were criminals and terrorists. Thus, they were legitimate target and MMA is party of terrorists and liars.
Blasting of madrassa happened within a week after Eid and madrassas stay close for sometime after Eid (as that is main holiday time in madrassa), shows that those who were killed there were not students but criminals and terrorists. Thus, they were legitimate target.
Further: For those who believe that government should not do anything with these terrorists and leave them spreading terrorism in Pakistan, just because these terrorists would try to accelerate their terrorism: I believe that if government does not do anything against criminals just because criminals would increase crime, such government is not qualified to rule. Slowly, these terrorists were increasing their strength and before Musharraf, they spread all over Pakistan. Most in Pakistan are fed-up with them terrorists killing innocents and consider them retards an evil that needs elimination as soon as possible from Pakistan. These retards are more harmful for Pakistan then any danger Pakistan ever experienced.
These terrorists want to bring Pakistan to their knees. It is time that government should show them the door (to the next world) and does something to make lives and properties of innocent citizen of Pakistan save from them. These retards Taliban terrorists need elimination, not for USA or for other part of world, but this is to save Pakistan. It is war of survival for Pakistan and for most Pakistanis.
This is best time, when these terrorist lost their terrorist government (Taliban) in Afghanistan that was giving them refuge whenever they needed.
When the military wing of these terrorist are getting bashing, vocal wing of these terrorists who have links with newspapers and can write in newspapers, realising that government is showing resolve and would not budge, have taken up their fight by writing lies.
Wing of these retarded pro-terrorist journalist are finding partners from ignorant (most are in these categories, living on bribe from opposition corrupts, to live), political (those affiliated with opposition political parties), and unaware (most who are drawing room type, following the trend without thinking) journalists, to spread their agenda of lies supporting terrorists in Pakistan.
** As for Musharraf, he is not getting anything other then endangering his own life to fight these terrorists, and most weak hearted man would have given up. I believe he knows that to give up would mean, eventually Pakistan falling in the hand of terrorists and that might become too late.
** Those that write (or say) that Musharraf is doing all to extend his rule by appeasing USA, are liars. If appeasing USA was criteria to be in power in Pakistan, Nawaz Shareef would never have lost power in Pakistan and Musharraf would never have come into power in Pakistan. Musharraf initial strength was Pakistan army and now it is Pakistan people too.
Musharraf is much stronger now, then he was in 1999 and InshaAllah he would become further stronger, once he succeeds in ridding Pakistan of these Taliban like terrorists (InshaAllah). Pakistan is a Muslim country, not satanic country (that these Taliban represent) and we need a Muslim ruler (like Musharraf), not Shaitan (like Mullah Umar) exploiting Islam.
** As for USA, USA may help Pakistan economically and with building international image, but could not help Musharraf holding to power in Pakistan. For Musharraf holding to power, he depends more on local forces then international forces. If Musharraf stop thinking for the best of country and start appeasing all vocal and terrorist power bases in the country, he would become stronger, but that would make country weaker.**
** Some retarded Pakistanis cannot understand a simple fact (that is very logical) that USA did not bring Musharraf into power in 1999. USA wanted him out until Sept 2001, but could not. Clinton did not even want to hear his name.
Musharraf came into power against the wishes of USA (and against American warning to Pakistan army). Now, when Musharraf power base is established force in Pakistan, how can USA get him out when USA could not prevent him taking over? So, if USA could not get him out, why Musharraf would care to appease USA just to be in power? Thus, it concludes that what Musharraf is doing, he is doing what he believes that is good for Pakistan (even at the expense of endangering his own life and popularity amongst retarded section of Pakistan pro-taliban and pro-MMA society).**
[Obviously, many pro-taliban and pro-MMA are not retarded and thus they are just watching things neutrally and impatiently, many realising the situation and some changing positions]
** Even today, Musharraf declares that Pakistan would let terrorists do what they like and would even go to war with USA, these same retards of MMA, Taliban and tribal locals would start calling him hero number one. Many journalists would start appreciating him (though initially, until the truth hits them) and he would become very strong in the country (for some fools, as most Pakistanis would start saying that Musharraf lost his nerve).
That is different matter that Pakistan over all would lose out, with many deaths from bombings in tribal areas and probably settled areas too turning some areas into rubbles, bombing on strategic places, sanctions on arms and many economical activities including trade, international isolation and whatever. I believe that death just because of medical sanctions could exceed many millions in Pakistan, leave millions of death due to other causes.**
Obviously, those who are writing on this forum living in foreign lands, many of them would end up in prison of their adopted country on charges of terrorism, is different matter
I have talked to quite a few people in Pakistan, and as I said earlier the militants have massively miscalculated by attacking our soldiers. Now people are rallying around the army, and turning against the tribals.
The Dargai attack which killed 42 soldiers should perhaps make doubters like Hamid Karzai in Kabul and his military allies in NATO sit up and take note of the terrible fallout Pakistan has to deal with for its active participation in the war against terror. The Afghan president has incidentally condemned the attack and has used it to reiterate what he says is a need for both Afghanistan and Pakistan to have a joint strategy in fighting terrorism. As for the investigation itself, according to reports, so far there has not been much success in finding a young man who is alleged to have been the suicide bomber’s accomplice. The details of the attack also reveal a startling lack of security given that the bomber, allegedly wrapped in a chaddar, ran into the midst of a large group of soldiers and exploded the bomb. The death toll could have been far lower if someone had checked him or even tackled him, and it makes one wonder why security was not stepped up after the Bajaur bombing.
**The Dargai attack will however make even the most strident opponents of the government’s action in Bajaur think that it probably was correct in claiming that the bombed madressah had close links with militants. In fact, one should not forget that the day after the Oct. 30 bombing, a large demonstration in Bajaur was organised during which a comrade of the dead owner of the madressah vowed to take revenge for the attack and also warned that suicide attacks would be launched against the Pakistani military. One is not condoning the decimation of the madressah (indeed in this space one has strongly argued for an alternative to an outright bombing) but the claim that all of the dead were innocent students rings a bit hollow following the Dargai attack. **
By Ansar Abbasi
In Lt-Gen (retd) Talat Masud’s view the Dargai incident is an extremely dangerous sign. He demands that the government must focus on the political solution and prefer reconciliation to confrontation. Lt-Gen (retd) Jamshed Gulzar, the former corps commander, Rawalpindi, lamented that the military regime has exceeded all limits to attain America’s objectives.
Gen Talat Masud said that the Dargai attack is the first-ever major incident of insurgency directed against the institution of Pakistan Army. He has no doubt that it happened in retaliation to what had occurred in Bajaur last week. He said that Pakistan Army is seen as an extension of the US and Nato forces operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. This perception, in Talaat’s view, is an extremely dangerous sign.
He asked the government to take a serious note of the situation and resort to political solution. He said that the government must go for reconciliation and should understand the reasons as to why the tribals are alienating.
General Jamshed Gulzar Kiani, who was said to be one of the vocal voices in the then military elite against toeing US post 9/11 policy, said that the government has too far exceeded the limits to recover easily from the sorry state of affairs the country is finding itself right now.
“When you start using state of the art weapons against your own civilians then the latter could only resort to the Dargai like suicide attacks,” Kiani said, adding that a suicide bomber does not need training. Terming the Bajaur killing as the most condemnable and unjustifiable, he said, by killing 83 persons there the government has actually produced innumerable suicide bombers in the 83 affected families.
About Dargai, he said, apparently it was case of lax security in an environment that requires extraordinary security. In a vitiated environment, he said, the military must not expose itself to become an easy target of terrorists. He lamented that the Army that is supposed to protect the lives and property of its citizens failed to protect itself.
Like others Kiani too has no doubts that the Bajaur carnage was carried out by the Americans. However, he failed to understand the rationale behind the Pakistan Army taking the blame of the carnage on itself.
Referring to President Musharraf’s resolve to hit hard against terrorist in reaction to the Dargai attack, Kiani warned that severe military action would result in severe reactions. He said that the Dargai attack is most condemnable but there is a need to see the reasons behind the attack.
He said that fear and threat of army have gradually eroded so use of force is no solution. He pressed for reconciliatory initiatives and said that Governor NWFP’s peace deal in Waziristan has produced great results. He criticized that the missile attack on a Madrassa there busted a similar peace deal in Bajaur.
Hi all,
I just wanted to add one more thing here, it seems not related to the mean topic. but if u notice in some afghan forums, some of afghans are happy about this bombing and some say that it wasn't a good incident cuz it happened in pashtuns land. Man man! what these people want? They should understand it that they never goona get Pashtuns land cuz NWFP is the part of Pakistan. I know one thing if some thing happen again with Afgan we should be care ful about these people before doing any fever.
I am not doing any "analysis", I am only asking for pictures of weapons after the madrassah being bombed or pictures of them doing training as was claimed right after bombing.
Bcz of fool mushy, pakistan has lost more than 120 pakistanis and now we have more than 100 bewas. May Allah give common sence to mushy. This is what i can say about mushy.
