This thread is actual example of Indian mentality ( aka banya zahniyat), They are offering us peace and all those goody good things... but the price for that is, forget Kashmir, forget that Indians are violating international treaties and steeling water from Pakistan, forget that Indians are pioneer of cross-border terrorism in the South Asian region.. yes and also we have to turn blind eye on Indians interference in our country, and then they want the Govt of Pakistan to provide them with security, and yes then they will consider us their friends...
Say what you want :-)..let me key a few lines like you do. There cannot be any talks with pakistan until pakistan hands over the occupied portion of kashmir, grants freedom to balochis, stops messing with neighbors through it's pet weapon jihad(namely india, afghanistan, iran), and invites indian mercenaries to blow themselves up among civilians..
Parallel to above is what your stand is on india..how different do you expect indian opinion to be? Yes it is deplorable for india as should be restrained on dam projects in kashmir...Water shortage has become a big problem for our neighbors..
what interference are you talking about care to elaborate?
This thread is actual example of Indian mentality ( aka banya zahniyat), They are offering us peace and all those goody good things... but the price for that is, forget Kashmir, forget that Indians are violating international treaties and steeling water from Pakistan, forget that Indians are pioneer of cross-border terrorism in the South Asian region.. yes and also we have to turn blind eye on Indians interference in our country, and then they want the Govt of Pakistan to provide them with security, and yes then they will consider us their friends...
This thread is actual example of Indian mentality ( aka banya zahniyat), They are offering us peace and all those goody good things... but the price for that is, forget Kashmir, forget that Indians are violating international treaties and steeling water from Pakistan, forget that Indians are pioneer of cross-border terrorism in the South Asian region.. yes and also we have to turn blind eye on Indians interference in our country, and then they want the Govt of Pakistan to provide them with security, and yes then they will consider us their friends...
This is what Indian Friendship is all about...
Friendship is not a one way street. Pak cannot expect friendship from India while continuing to fund and arm terrorists who carry out strikes against India. Pak cannot use terrorism as a bargaining chip for Kashmir - as proven over the last 60+ years that strategy has hurt Pak more than India. India is much bigger than Pak in every way, and whatever Pak does against us we can retaliate with a much bigger response. However, that process hurts both sides.
India-Pak have to keep Kashmir aside and talk through the rest of their differences. Thats the only way to move ahead.
Friendship is not a one way street. Pak cannot expect friendship from India while continuing to fund and arm terrorists who carry out strikes against India. Pak cannot use terrorism as a bargaining chip for Kashmir - as proven over the last 60+ years that strategy has hurt Pak more than India. India is much bigger than Pak in every way, and whatever Pak does against us we can retaliate with a much bigger response. However, that process hurts both sides.
India-Pak have to keep Kashmir aside and talk through the rest of their differences. Thats the only way to move ahead.
Punjabee / Behind,
While disagree with Hanibals tone, he does have a point. Kashmir needs to be resolved, and both countries should consider international mediation. Realations always deteriate, because of some incidemt or other. And India and Pakistan have BOTH trained terrorists and seperatist groups. Its no use just blaming the Paks, and playing up to the neo-cons in Washington.
In terms of visa, I have been told by the indian High Commision in London, that they ARE NOT issuing visas to Pakistanis. They are particularly nasty to the elderly, who wants to visit relatives in India. Can you tell me how 67 year old woman posses a terrorist threat to India.
At the first place,
Both India and Pakistan must try to bridge the trust deficit that we already have
Every time India and Pakistan come on negotiating table, one or the other terrorist strike either in Pakistan or India derails the talks.
Both sides doesn’t gain anything and terrorists and separatist gain everything, it also escalate tension and cast shadow on talks.
Both countries should see that their country should not be used against launching terrorist activities against each other. I mean they should protect the talks first
All outstanding issues can be discussed including Kashmir but issues like water problem, technological and medical cooperation , trade and commerce should be discussed first then when both sides are confident Kashmir can be taken up
Because there are sentiments in regard with Kashmir, if both sides indulge in talking prematurely with each other on Kashmir it will not deliver in anything positive. And both the sides will get frustrated on talks again. Talk should definitely be all encompassing
Khan saheb. What is a workable solution on kashmir you suggest? Indian separatists and insurgent groups do not blow themselves up in karachi. Pakistan mainly your army and ISI and some esteemed members of society give patronage to elements which kill indian civilians in cold blood. Please watch the channel 4 documentary on mumbai attacks..and read my post earlier in the thread on Hafiz saeed..
Which of indian groups do you see giving such sermons on pakistani civilians? Pakistan and Pakistanis need to take responsibility of this menace of jihad. According to Ahmed rashid there are people in pakistan's army more taliban then taliban themselves. Indians have extremist groups but none of them could ever come close to what you see in pakistan..So i do not agree with the parallel you cite. The incidents as you mention are a result of pakistan's state support for jihadis which brings a bad name to your nation and religion. See the esteemed list of nations now. India has more muslims, but india does not figure.
Yes this isn't in right spirit to stop the elderly or anyone to meet their relatives. The visa norms have been tightened now because of your countrymen Mr. Headley and Rana. Did you read the thread sir on someone here wanting to give them 'Nishaan-e-Haider' read it in 'chicago man involved in mumbai terrorism.' on world affairs. These two are the reasons why the norms are tighter now. Even more than they were after mumbai attacks. My father was born in pakistan occupied kashmir..I'd like to visit his vilage too..See how easy it is to put me on defensive and say india should not be doing this. In the documentary if you see it, the dead people on VT station had nothing to do with the politics. But your fellow countrymen so easily state 'more saeeds will be born'..The stark contrast here is india is trying to secure itself by stopping visas(which in case you mentioned isn't justifiable) while your countrymen threatening more attacks.
I edited my post to add some more after i reread your post. International mediation is no solution. Pakistan is the weaker side and it is difficult for international community to negotiate india on to table on kashmir. You see how the world leaders stay away from mediation. They do not have as much leverage on india. An economically prosperous pakistan will bring more respect to its views than an extremist terrorist haven.
The incidents are not isolated criminal activities. These jihadis are nurtured, trained and supported by a terror infrastructure that exists in pakistan. So I side with the indian government's position in principle.
Punjabee / Behind,
While disagree with Hanibals tone, he does have a point. Kashmir needs to be resolved, and both countries should consider international mediation. Realations always deteriate, because of some incidemt or other. And India and Pakistan have BOTH trained terrorists and seperatist groups. Its no use just blaming the Paks, and playing up to the neo-cons in Washington.
In terms of visa, I have been told by the indian High Commision in London, that they ARE NOT issuing visas to Pakistanis. They are particularly nasty to the elderly, who wants to visit relatives in India. Can you tell me how 67 year old woman posses a terrorist threat to India.
Saeeds and other will automatically die when the Kashmiries will get their right of self-determination... when Indian Army will stop shooting and killing the Kashmiri Youth.. these Saeeds will be part of forgotten history... yet i don't see anything positive and concrete from the other side of the border.. saeeds will continue to flourish... Saeeds are just a reaction of action taken by India and this reaction has been their for last 6000 years in different cultures, societies and nations... and will continue till dooms day...
Pakistani sudents have been crazy if they are talking like these (first post). Islamic medicine is number #1- all complicated medicine and surgeries mention in Al-Quran. no needs to talk wiht Indians. Indians wants to talk to Pakistan? Two conditions:
1) First of all, Indian need to hand over Muslim Kashmeer to Pakistani people and
2) Second of All, stops doing Bombay like drama with Kala Indian (non-musilm) terrorist and telling all over the worlds that muslim kills poor inoccent peoples in Bombay and some dark-skind peoples like has names like Ajmal Qasab or some bakwas- admit it is your RAW paid Hindu terrorist to defame Islams all over the world. Muslim never kill any1. No muslim have kills any innocent peoples. that is all
3) Third of all, pay crores of dollars or pounds fo destroying muslims place like Kashmir and Gujjarat.
^^^^^^
:D Indian need to hand over Muslim Kashmeer to Pakistani people :D
:D Muslim never kill any1. No muslim have kills any innocent peoples.:D
Either people who're getting killed are not innocent (I do not believe so) or the killers are
not muslims (I do not believe so)
There is no end to your venomous anti Muslim and anti Pakistani propaganda behind
thats why you will always be Behind everything that is nasty and evil.
You should talk about extreemist hindus who are making life hell for Muslms in India.
But ofcourse that will keepyou shut for the rest ofyour life because that truth is too hard to handle for you.
This thread is actual example of Indian mentality ( aka banya zahniyat), They are offering us peace and all those goody good things... but the price for that is, forget Kashmir, forget that Indians are violating international treaties and steeling water from Pakistan, forget that Indians are pioneer of cross-border terrorism in the South Asian region.. yes and also we have to turn blind eye on Indians interference in our country, and then they want the Govt of Pakistan to provide them with security, and yes then they will consider us their friends...
This is what Indian Friendship is all about...
Pointing fingers, that so 1947ishh. As far as zahniyat is concerned, individual should focus on the zahniyat of our own non state actors viz a viz LET, Jaish etc.
Lets say, India gifts Kashmir to pakistan or leaves kashmir. Do you think, there will be conflict between India and pakistan after that.
Zahniyat of LET and these illegimate children of Zia will not let peace to prevail. reason being, they want destruction of hindus, at all costs, even at the destruction of pakistan. They want a nuclear war between India and Pakistan, as that will finish the only powerful kaffir hindu nation India and pakistan (pakistanis ofcourse will land up among the virgins in heaven), but the muslims in the rest of the middle east etc will still carry the flag of Islam. That is the true Zahniyat all the Jihadi jamats operating in pakistan.
Since when have these jihadi elements in pakistan claimed that they want peace with India for that matter hindus.
Pakistani sudents have been crazy if they are talking like these (first post). Islamic medicine is number #1- all complicated medicine and surgeries mention in Al-Quran. no needs to talk wiht Indians. Indians wants to talk to Pakistan? Two conditions:
1) First of all, Indian need to hand over Muslim Kashmeer to Pakistani people and
2) Second of All, stops doing Bombay like drama with Kala Indian (non-musilm) terrorist and telling all over the worlds that muslim kills poor inoccent peoples in Bombay and some dark-skind peoples like has names like Ajmal Qasab or some bakwas- admit it is your RAW paid Hindu terrorist to defame Islams all over the world. Muslim never kill any1. No muslim have kills any innocent peoples. that is all
3) Third of all, pay crores of dollars or pounds fo destroying muslims place like Kashmir and Gujjarat.
First of all, valley of kashmir is not the baap ki jagir of muslims. Muslims are in majority, that all, there are kashmiri speaking hindus as well who are much fairer/ gora than muslims. Muslims will have to give part of land to non muslims if they want independence.
Its nice, that you think that no muslim should not kill innocent. But, reality is that there are so called people with muslim names who have killed innocents. Sorry to wake you up from sleep.
and By the way, Farfour has been martyred by Jews live on TV. If you dont know who farfour is, well thats your home work for the day.
This is what I do not understand. Kashmir is the only flash point in Pakistan India relations. The Indians have illegally taken the land. As proven by UNSC resolutions. Why isn't Indian following up its democratic roots and letting the Kashmiri people decide for themselves what they want.
If you take Kashmir out of the equation, you remove the power the Military has. You calm down the situation and you basically back Pakistan in to a corner where they have to negotiate and remove the militants from their territory.
First of all, valley of kashmir is not the baap ki jagir of muslims. Muslims are in majority, that all, there are kashmiri speaking hindus as well who are much fairer/ gora than muslims. Muslims will have to give part of land to non muslims if they want independence.
Its nice, that you think that no muslim should not kill innocent. But, reality is that there are so called people with muslim names who have killed innocents. Sorry to wake you up from sleep.
and By the way, Farfour has been martyred by Jews live on TV. If you dont know who farfour is, well thats your home work for the day.
Who are Farfour? Kashmir belong to muslim ONLY and get thats in your heads, yamahagay. Non-muslims will converts or leaves the valley... only one in 2 possible cases of all cases possible. We were promised COmplete Punjab in 1947 by British and hopes all Hindus and Sikhs will convert to the best religion(Islam) of the earths but never happened- Muslims majority AMritsar and Ferozepur still in India- we will win back and these 2 in next jang, Inshallah.
Who are Farfour? Kashmir belong to muslim ONLY and get thats in your heads, yamahagay. Non-muslims will converts or leaves the valley... only one in 2 possible cases of all cases possible. We were promised COmplete Punjab in 1947 by British and hopes all Hindus and Sikhs will convert to the best religion(Islam) of the earths but never happened- Muslims majority AMritsar and Ferozepur still in India- we will win back and these 2 in next jang, Inshallah.
Kashmir belongs to everyone who lives in the valley including kashmiri pundits, and there is no question of anybody coverting to islam and leaving the valley. Final settlement would include both the points, got it!!!
Amritsar and ferozepur will stay in India and we sikh will defend it
And as war as non nuclear war is concerned, result would be same as it always was, either you would surrender (1971) or withdraw (1999).and this is promise of an active Indian soldier’s son
There is no military solution to this. Keep this in your mind
Who are Farfour? Kashmir belong to muslim ONLY and get thats in your heads, yamahagay. Non-muslims will converts or leaves the valley... only one in 2 possible cases of all cases possible. We were promised COmplete Punjab in 1947 by British and hopes all Hindus and Sikhs will convert to the best religion(Islam) of the earths but never happened- Muslims majority AMritsar and Ferozepur still in India- we will win back and these 2 in next jang, Inshallah.
Hamid saheb yeh jo aapki conversion kee rat hai..yehi majhab kaa naam kharaab karti hai..there is no compulsion in religion including islam (for all i know)..unfortunately some bigots like you think they are following true religion..
In next jang you might lose everything that you have if you haven't lost it already to internal terrorism and jihadis..
There is no end to your venomous anti Muslim and anti Pakistani propaganda behind
thats why you will always be Behind everything that is nasty and evil.
You should talk about extreemist hindus who are making life hell for Muslms in India.
But ofcourse that will keepyou shut for the rest ofyour life because that truth is too hard to handle for you.
Do not jump on anything stupid! Prove whats anti muslim..learn to talk of your shortcomings without godwinizing the discussion every time..
Do you not see the truth in your country in so frequent terror attacks?
Wow, Bollywood is DEFINITELY a reason that there should be peace between the countries. Forget the serious matters that are happening. We’re deewanay of Bollywood, we think Bollywood, we dream Bollywood, we act Bollywood.. daffa ho jao phir Bollywood mein hi.
Unless I don’t hear similar stories from the Indian youth I shall stay pessimistic. This whole peace thing is a friggin ‘Aman ka tamasha’. You don’t see those commercials playing on Indian tv. Why? THEY COULDN’T CARE LESS.
This is what I do not understand. Kashmir is the only flash point in Pakistan India relations. The Indians have illegally taken the land. As proven by UNSC resolutions. Why isn't Indian following up its democratic roots and letting the Kashmiri people decide for themselves what they want.
If you take Kashmir out of the equation, you remove the power the Military has. You calm down the situation and you basically back Pakistan in to a corner where they have to negotiate and remove the militants from their territory.
I am with the Chief on this. We need to solve the Kashmir issue, and the rest will follow. Ignore Kashmir, then you will have all this terrorism, and all these shallow gore who go to Osho for a sex and drugs, will stop visiting with there Pounds and Euros.
And guys ignore this Khanewal dude, seems to have personal issues.
Unless I don't hear similar stories from the Indian youth I shall stay pessimistic. This whole peace thing is a friggin 'Aman ka tamasha'. You don't see those commercials playing on Indian tv. Why? THEY COULDN'T CARE LESS.
I understand that Times of India are also running these commercials.
