Why is Pakistan so flippin’ behind?
don’t tell me we’re too poor - because India is really building its science industry up - so why can’t we do it?
don’t tell me we’ve got no scientific talent because we’ve got some pretty good scientists, although we need more outside the nuclear weapons field.
Re: Pakistan & Science
and even that technology is stolen 
anyway, i think the prob is the lack of scientific education about how research is conducted…secondly the thirst for money. So research is just a secondary thing
we do not have research programs.. we can't offer our best enough to keep them in the country and lose most of our talent to other economies which offer them more knowledge and financial gains in exchange.
Re: Pakistan & Science
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*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
Why is Pakistan so flippin' behind?
don't tell me we're too poor - because India is really building its science industry up - so why can't we do it?
don't tell me we've got no scientific talent because we've got some pretty good scientists, although we need more outside the nuclear weapons field.
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We are not lagging behind in quality, its just that we do not have enough quality tech colleges. And to be honest, this military hakoomat hasnt done much to increase the number.
V r lacking because the big countries doesn't want us to go forward
Like USA why isn't it solving the problem b/w India n Pakistan and is still giving us F-16. But in really it doesn't want us to stop fighting so that we can't get better then. Cuz the skills we have no one has them in the world.
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*Originally posted by Baba G: *
we do not have research programs.. we can't offer our best enough to keep them in the country and lose most of our talent to other economies which offer them more knowledge and financial gains in exchange.
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Exactly! The main problem is "brain drain".
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*Originally posted by Umer: *
Exactly! The main problem is "brain drain".
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Yep. Better believe it. A friend of mine from Aga Khan Medical College was telling me that more than 90% of her graduating class from there did USMLEs and got internships in US and are now currently residents at various hospitals here.
Re: Pakistan & Science
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
Why is Pakistan so flippin' behind?
don't tell me we're too poor - because India is really building its science industry up - so why can't we do it?
don't tell me we've got no scientific talent because we've got some pretty good scientists, although we need more outside the nuclear weapons field.
[/QUOTE]
You are not too poor to develop S&T. And your people are as talented as anyother.
You have too many mullahs and military who cannot let the national agenda shift away from bugging India to developmental subjects. If they let that happen, they're toast.
PCG I don’t think we are lagging too far behind.
Since 1947 Pakistan has made a lot of progress from what we were then to what we are now. Amazing progress. When Pakistan was made we were completely unequipped. We did not have a lot at all. All the resources went to India. We have advanced much more than what I think India has if you look at it percentage wise from then to now.
We are continuing to make progress every single day in every single field mashallah.
Brain drain is a problem but look at all the top unis, hospitals, banks etc, most of the people working there atleast in the top positions are foreign qualified, which means that there still is bran retention.
Besides local Pakistanis are also equipping themselves very well and are not any less. You’ll be surprised to see the level of things. We do lack in material resources such as proper machinery and equipment but people here find ways to work around it a lot of times.
Another thing is that scientific and material advancement is not the sole or major all-consuming national priority, obsession. The Pakistani mindset is also a lot into other things, for example religion specially forms a huge part of our national psyche and we devote time to other things too. As a nation we are non-workaholics and somewhat complacent which is good too and our work ethic is also a bit chillaxed as opposed to for example Amreeka where people work like crazy from morning to night without time for rest. Here, things are laid back. Even now, during Jumah and Ramzan, even in the multinational offices, the office timings are cut short for example. And Pakistanis prefer that.
I think Pakistan is making great progress and inshallah I see Pakistan in an even better position in the future 
Re: Re: Pakistan & Science
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*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
...
You have too many mullahs and military who cannot let the national agenda shift away from bugging India to developmental subjects. If they let that happen, they're toast.
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No Tomsawyer, I disagree. Mullahs can't be blamed for the lack of development, it has to be military and politics. Mullahs can't go beyond labelling each others as kafirs, what can they do to prevent anything, they are actually stopping THEMSELVES only from developing/advancing.
Politicians destroy any development that took place in previous governments and hence harass any investment. Look at Hub Power Co, how it has been harassed for such a long period of time. Thats one pebble in the sand.
Military grabs all the resources of the country it can in name of "India", "Kashmir" and then use it on the luxury of colonels, brigadiers etc.
Besides that, we lack international support on any front while India has many. So comparing with India should not be done. We should look at ourselves how can we manage the resources we have and utilise them properly.
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You have too many mullahs
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Mullahs wot do u say about BJP or VHP?
irem 
i’m afraid ill have to disagree with a number of points u make:
of course Pakistan has made some progress,…but not at the rate at which other countries have…so in comparison (that’s what counts in modern day economies) they are even more behind than first.
this is also a common misconcenption. If u drive along the Paki countryside, i don’t think Pakistan is worse of than India. both countries have their deserts and mountaneous areas
i very much doubt this. Not only statistics, but also the ppl’s mentality tell the story
usually what i see is that ppl going back to Pakistan don’t do that for humanitary reasons, but for money/financial reasons. I’m sure the Red Cross offers more and better help to the poor there, than any doc who qualified in the West and went back.
almost everything i came across in Pakistan was number 2 / fake products…
and exactly this obsession / neurosis is braking us down. We take religion as something mystique (although we say it’s everyday life)…all the rituals, the silly meanings we attach to unimportant things are braking us down
i hope so too, but i very much doubt it…
this was not to diffuse everything u said, irem…but it was my attempt to put it a bit more into perspective…cuz u had a lot of chauvinism put into that post of urs 
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*Originally posted by SKYS_CORP: *
Mullahs wot do u say about BJP or VHP?
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atleast they dont hold country backwards.
anyway this being the scientific forum i restrict myself
lack of RnD ...
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*Originally posted by Baba G: *
we do not have research programs.. we can't offer our best enough to keep them in the country and lose most of our talent to other economies which offer them more knowledge and financial gains in exchange.
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Actually we did had in some depeartments, like in SUPARCO, CANNUP, NED-University, Karachi University, they do offer PhD programs as well...
but politics, unconsistancy in programs, and insicerity killed every thing...now brain is drained and new brain need to eat BADAMS ...
Hmmm… interesting question… although I’ve thought of reasons even before, just reading some of the comments in this post impelled me to think more conscientiously. One way to look at the situation is realize where the gaps are… here’s a possible framework to use:
In my opinion, in order to excel in areas of S&T, Pakistan needs to be managing its intellectual capital more effectively – but what does intellectual capital mean at a national level?
Well, think in terms of how we’re doing with respect to our:
1- Human Capital,
2- Structual Capital, and
3- Relational Capital
We’re all aware that somehow we lag behind in retaining our “talent” within the nation. Spock mentioned the "brain drain" and this indeed is one of the results of poor Human Capital Management.
However, by looking at how human capital is linked to structural capital, and in turn how that is linked to relational capital, we can get a little more insight.
Pakistan also lags behind in the structural capital - there is a dearth of proper establishments (universities, colleges, research institutes) in Pakistan where someone can see his/her aptitude get exploited and talent get further developed... this leads those who’re capable of doing so to seek other avenues overseas where they would get a better sense of realization of their potential.
Finally the political turmoil does not let the country avail the various avenues for establishing stronger relationships to facilitate the sharing of opportunities between the different countries – a prime example being our always overwrought relationships with India. India in my opinion has managed to excel Pakistan because they’ve managed to leverage the opportunities provided to them through “Relational Capital”, availing the opportunities provided by various MNCs’. This in turn has given them the structural capital base they need in order to effect useful measures to retain their human capital.
I wouldnt blame the military, they are running Pakistans best education system right now.
OK people,
I need to know HOW I can work for any of Pakistan's scientifict development programmes? What options do I have? I've never been in this field before but I KNOW I CAN do it.
If anyone can provide me with information about how I can go about it. And WHO I should contact who could take my ambition & interest seriously, I would much appreciate.
I am outside Pakistan at the mo but dont mind moving back if I can be accepted in a real challenging environment which can offer me opportunities to create / develop something useful for my Pakistan.
I have science education that should be of help. Please someone let me know. Who or which government dept. I should contact while Im outside PK.
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*Originally posted by Spock: *
I wouldnt blame the military, they are running Pakistans best education system right now.
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I would. Look at the amount of budget they eat, and amount of "engineers", "doctors", "researchers" they produce, real scientific advancement if any?, any research programs... compared to budget are zilch.
But civilian population is also responsible for that. What do politicians do when they are in govt? They suck. They block good projects and promote anything like yellow cabs, or SGS-cotecna sh!ts.
When I completed my Engineering, govt used to run S&T Scholarship for sending outstanding students overseas for education for MS and PhD. But that year happened to be BB's govt., she pulled the plug and no one was allowed to go abroad for higher education using S&T.
There are many more examples.
Private universities are a late phenomena, but still most of them would offer you MBA. What good MBA is for R&D ?
The NewWannaBe, if you really want to do something, then its better that you do on your own with help of local "elite" class rather than govt.
What area do you want to contribute in? What kind of setup you want to establish? etc.
I would say that Pakistan is lagging far behind in S&T.
as someone mentioned above dat Pakistan has progressed alot since its creation, i dont agree wid dat. China came into being around 46-48 but it is progressing day and nite. if we only compare to China we are far far behind. now if dat comparsion is taken to a first world country like US or UK, we are simply NOWHERE...
I think there are million reasons behind our backwardness.the foremost is a poor show of politics and wrong enforcement of martial law from time to time. but this is not the only prob we have here.
the reasons for our flipping behind also includes our psyche. for instance in pak the 70 percent of the parents want their daughters to become doctors , not for the sake of knowledge but since they are the weaker gender medicine is the rite field for them(I am talking bout the middle-class of pak) i have come across gurls who wanted to become engineers but for being a gurl had to choose medicine.they fulfill their parents wishes but cannot develop an interest in that field.
Financial probs, insecurity of future, less paid jobs, im-proper guidance,poverty, lack of availability of quality schools and in some cases teachers are a few of the probs in a birds eye view.
But if we look into the whole system deeply there are flaws and drawbacks at every step.
Now some of the people are coming up with ways to develop but the rate is way too low.For example the syllabus in pakistan for matriciculation and FSc was the same as it was in 70s.thx to some ppl who got it changed and the students are studying the lastest discoveries.
i wish dat day wud come when Pakistan wud be considered as a first world country.