Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
If I was to chose between the two, a mulla or A. Salaam, it would be the great sceintist regardless of his faith. A good mullah/fundo is a dead mullah/fundo
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
CM, how many years have you spent as a Qadiyani/Marzai in Pakistan?
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
None whatsoever.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
I figured.
Do you even have a Pakistani Passport? May the ID card? I ask because it is very relavent to your 'persecution' discussion in this thread.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
That is bull****. There far right groups in parliament and neo-nazi groups do exist in Germany.
God I wish insults were allowed, because such ignorance like this genuinely warrants a few choice words. The Govt and Majority of the people acknowledge their faults, while Pakistanis either condone it, defend it, make excuses or act as apologists. No one acknowledges their faults in pak. In ur twisted mind, there is no problem, and if there is its the fault of the victims.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
Persecution under Zia is very very relevant to a man who left 6 years before it started. With this retarded logic can you explain if you have an academic background in Political Science and human rights law? I ask because its very relevant to your definition of persecution in this thread 
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
Oh so there aren’t far right groups in the EU eh?
Rise of the far right: simpler and uglier | Editorial | Comment is free | The Guardian
10 second google search.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
“Europe Turns Right” by Ian Buruma | Project Syndicate](Europe Turns Right by Ian Buruma - Project Syndicate)
I love Project syndicate simply because the best minds of the world write there. Here is an article from 2 years ago saying the same damn thing.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
There we go again.
**Media bombards the significance of him being an Ahmadi and talks less of him as a scientist.
**I wonder why all the articles and CNN anchor has to talk about his background and his religion so much and worries about of him being an Ahmadi than praise him being a scientist.
Do you really think they love Abdus Salam?
Do they really care about Ahmadis?
Do they really care about science?
Seriously?
Even these so called journalists cannot praise him in positive manner without spreading negativity, since he was born in Pakistan.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
Well average German doesn’t have a BA at minimum … it would be great if this is the case (the Industry is begging/hunting/chasing for the Educated)
How about comparing the raising numbers of right wingers or Neo nazis for that matter with relgious extremist in Pakistan … i’m talking about educated lot … u know what happend when Salman Taseer was murdered
How many PPL in Pakistan got killed by those PPL in the last decade and what has been done about it ???
So no comparison here
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
There we go again.
**Media bombards the significance of him being an Ahmadi and talks less of him as a scientist.
**I wonder why all the articles and CNN anchor has to talk about his background and his religion so much and worries about of him being an Ahmadi than praise him being a scientist.
Do you really think they love Abdus Salam? Do they really care about Ahmadis? Do they really care about science?
Seriously?
Even these so called journalists cannot praise him in positive manner without spreading negativity, since he was born in Pakistan.
I kinda agree with u here
But then it's a Media thing/habit to find something negative in positive things ..... otherwise the Masala is missing ..... they need to keep an image they created ..... the matter here is though that this image isn't solely created by them ..... Taali dono haatho'n say bajti hay ;)
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
Well average German doesn't have a BA at minimum ..... it would be great if this is the case (the Industry is begging/hunting/chasing for the Educated)
How about comparing the raising numbers of right wingers or Neo nazis for that matter with relgious extremist in Pakistan ..... i'm talking about educated lot ..... u know what happend when Salman Taseer was murdered
How many PPL in Pakistan got killed by those PPL in the last decade and what has been done about it ????
So no comparison here
Agreed. No comparison. When an educated man with a job, family car and a bank savings votes for a far right party akin to our Mullahs you gotta seriously consider what the hell is going on.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
CM,
You don't need a law degree to figure out persecution when you are on the receiving end of it. Just like you don't need a psychology degree to figure out you are talking to a crazy person.
Your assertion that somehow all the persecution, discrimination, harassment against Ahmadis happened when Zia flipped a switch and turned on a green light is naive at best. Ahmadis have been discriminated in the society since a century ago when Mirza Sahib claimed to be the Messiah. Heck my own grandfather was discharged from the British Indian army because his Muslim supervisor said that he questioned his loyalty. 53 riots were not started by Zia nor were the Ahmadi social by-cot of 74.
You are right that he was honored in Ayub's era by Ayub but then Ayub didn't care what sect you were. Many of Ayub's generals were Ahmadis. This doesn't mean that Ahmadis were not persecuted or discriminated against in the 60s. The difference before the constitution of 74 is that the state at least on it's books had not institutionalized the discrimination, it didn't mean the streets were heaven for Ahmadis.
Salam was from Jhung, which is right next to Rabwah (oh excuse me Chanab Nagar) & Jhung has been & continues to be the epicenter for Anti-Ahmadiyya movement from the time Rabwah was established in 47. The other part of his life he spent in Lahore, which was a site of 53 riots.
What you failed to mention was that he left the country earlier too. In 54 after the first Anti-Ahmadiyya riots of 53. At the time he was "honored" as the president of the football club at Pubjab University. There was no funding for science & all his efforts to start something in Pubjab university failed to yield results (which probably can be blamed for petty politics rather than his Ahmadi faith).
Anyway, long story short what I take an issue with is this:
He took a political stand and left because of that. How is that the countries fault?<<<
It's country's fault when it's elected representatives as a decree of law ostracize an entire community paving the way for more discriminatory laws. And the 'silent majority' continues to back it up. Not only that his stand was justified, history has proved it right that the society of the country has gone down the drain ever since.
He didn't leave Pakistan for the laws. He left Pakistan for Physics. The scientist of his caliber could have easily gone on to research in US even before the 50s. It is to his credit that he came back & did whatever he could for Pakistan. If he really wanted, as a "political stand" he could have taken his Nobel prize as a different nationality but he chose not to. He could have revoked his Pakistani Nationality, even till his death bed he didn't. He could have chose to be buried where he didn't fear one day his grave might be desecrated but he chose Pakistan.
So it is down right bigotry to question his loyalty to the people of Pakistan.
He for the longest time, up until Bainazir & Nawaz's time wanted to create a "Islamic Science Foundation" with a grand scheme of raising $1 Billion dollars to enchace science in Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia refused to fund it as long as it was his idea & other oil rich nations were happy to send their scientists to ICTP rather than create a new institution. (Want proff? Google Hoodbhoy & Islam Science Foundation)
And my question if you have lived a life of a Ahmadi in Pakistan is very relavent. It is so easy to question someone's actions when you don't have to walk in their shoes. 99% of the people reading this thread don't have a clue what life for an Ahmadi in Pakistan has become. The local government brought down the minarets from the mosque in Kharian yesterday because it was hurting the feelings of fellow Muslims & the PTCL has blocked the offical Ahmadiyya website from it's network and that's just the news in last 4 days.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
Genius…
The FAR right is perceived as a threat by the MAJORITY of Europeans. They understand the dangers. That is why they are often associated with racists and are condemned as such.
There is an irony to the rise of far right. They often cite bigots like you and your intolerance, and use that as a reason to fear large minorities like Muslims. You, and many many other Pakistani, are very similar to the racists of Europe. Both of you feed of the percieved intolerance of the other, and both use the intolerence of the other to cloack their own bigotry in guise of patriotism or religious devotion. They think expelling Muslims is done in the name of country, Pakistani bigots persecute because they think its their relgious duty.
None the less, these groups in Europe are still on the fringe. The Danish far right might want to ban te Koran, but doubt anything like that will ever happen as sanity is still present. In Pakistan, persecution of Ahmadis has become mainstream and is often considered the duty of a pious Muslim to at least in passing insult them… The constitution itself is made to reflect this bigotry.
You tell me in what civilized country you can go and desecrate a grave, knock down a Mosque, or imprison someone for writing the Kalma? In what civilized country does the welfare of a minority group depend solely on the refutation of their OWN religious belief?
And you who claim to be educated and rational actually say that they should stop calling themselves Muslim to truly be free of such persecution? What kind of sad demented world do you live in?
By the way, because far right bigots exist in Europe means Pakistanis should feel no guilt for persocution of Ahmadis is you point?
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
There we go again.
**Media bombards the significance of him being an Ahmadi and talks less of him as a scientist.
**I wonder why all the articles and CNN anchor has to talk about his background and his religion so much and worries about of him being an Ahmadi than praise him being a scientist.
Do you really think they love Abdus Salam? Do they really care about Ahmadis? Do they really care about science?
Seriously?
Even these so called journalists cannot praise him in positive manner without spreading negativity, since he was born in Pakistan.
The fact is that Abdus Salam is disregarded and his contribution ignored BECAUSE he was Ahmadi. Pakistanis who are intelligent, not corrupted by religious bigots and their dogma, and are patriotic, realize that sidelining and even vilifying of the man by Pakistan and her awaam, is a disservice not only to him, but also their country. And so when they are speaking of Abdus Salam, they are not only speaking of Abdus Salam the scientist, they are also speaking of the tragedy that is PAKISTAN.
You cannot speak of Abdus Salam without admonishing the way in which his own country had treated him.
Pakistanis should be ashamed, and I should hope that CNN and all other news networks continue to shame the country for how it treated the man, and how it continues to persecute the members of his community. Assuming there is some sharum left in Pak.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
CM, You don't need a law degree to figure out persecution when you are on the receiving end of it. Just like you don't need a psychology degree to figure out you are talking to a crazy person.
Your assertion that somehow all the persecution, discrimination, harassment against Ahmadis happened when Zia flipped a switch and turned on a green light is naive at best. Ahmadis have been discriminated in the society since a century ago when Mirza Sahib claimed to be the Messiah. Heck my own grandfather was discharged from the British Indian army because his Muslim supervisor said that he questioned his loyalty. 53 riots were not started by Zia nor were the Ahmadi social by-cot of 74.
You are right that he was honored in Ayub's era by Ayub but then Ayub didn't care what sect you were. Many of Ayub's generals were Ahmadis. This doesn't mean that Ahmadis were not persecuted or discriminated against in the 60s. The difference before the constitution of 74 is that the state at least on it's books had not institutionalized the discrimination, it didn't mean the streets were heaven for Ahmadis.
Salam was from Jhung, which is right next to Rabwah (oh excuse me Chanab Nagar) & Jhung has been & continues to be the epicenter for Anti-Ahmadiyya movement from the time Rabwah was established in 47. The other part of his life he spent in Lahore, which was a site of 53 riots.
What you failed to mention was that he left the country earlier too. In 54 after the first Anti-Ahmadiyya riots of 53. At the time he was "honored" as the president of the football club at Pubjab University. There was no funding for science & all his efforts to start something in Pubjab university failed to yield results (which probably can be blamed for petty politics rather than his Ahmadi faith).
Anyway, long story short what I take an issue with is this:
He took a political stand and left because of that. How is that the countries fault?<<<
It's country's fault when it's elected representatives as a decree of law ostracize an entire community paving the way for more discriminatory laws. And the 'silent majority' continues to back it up. Not only that his stand was justified, history has proved it right that the society of the country has gone down the drain ever since.
He didn't leave Pakistan for the laws. He left Pakistan for Physics. The scientist of his caliber could have easily gone on to research in US even before the 50s. It is to his credit that he came back & did whatever he could for Pakistan. If he really wanted, as a "political stand" he could have taken his Nobel prize as a different nationality but he chose not to. He could have revoked his Pakistani Nationality, even till his death bed he didn't. He could have chose to be buried where he didn't fear one day his grave might be desecrated but he chose Pakistan.
So it is down right bigotry to question his loyalty to the people of Pakistan.
He for the longest time, up until Bainazir & Nawaz's time wanted to create a "Islamic Science Foundation" with a grand scheme of raising $1 Billion dollars to enchace science in Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia refused to fund it as long as it was his idea & other oil rich nations were happy to send their scientists to ICTP rather than create a new institution. (Want proff? Google Hoodbhoy & Islam Science Foundation)
And my question if you have lived a life of a Ahmadi in Pakistan is very relavent. It is so easy to question someone's actions when you don't have to walk in their shoes. 99% of the people reading this thread don't have a clue what life for an Ahmadi in Pakistan has become. The local government brought down the minarets from the mosque in Kharian yesterday because it was hurting the feelings of fellow Muslims & the PTCL has blocked the offical Ahmadiyya website from it's network and that's just the news in last 4 days.
So which is it. Did he leave the country due to the laws or did he leave due to Physics? Because you say both.
No its not. Its like saying you have to be a black man to understand racism in the US. After all your first statement said it all.
"You don't need a law degree to figure out persecution when you are on the receiving end of it. Just like you don't need a psychology degree to figure out you are talking to a crazy person. "
Now I don't deny that Ahmadies are discriminated against. They are. Nor do I accept that fact. I think the laws are unislamic and not fit with life as it is today. Esp. considering how Muslims ***** about discrimination in the US. However I have yet to see any proof of Abdus Salam facing any form of discrimination that is recorded and substantiated.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
Yes. Med911. That is why Le Pen’s party has increasingly gained votes in every election since 1999. That is why the Dutch Government was brought down by one man who considers Islam as a threat to the life of all of Western Europe. Of course the far right doesn’t exist in European politics. Nope. Not at all.
Here is a summary of parties in power in Europe and notice how many are described as king makers?
New Statesman - The European Parliament’s hand-out to the far-right
That is an interesting article as well.
But no your opinion sitting in some small village in the West is far more important and valid.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
Agreed. No comparison. When an educated man with a job, family car and a bank savings votes for a far right party akin to our Mullahs you gotta seriously consider what the hell is going on.
When was the last time u've been to Germany????
I was in Pakistan in June 2010 3 days after the Attacks in Lahore on Ahmadi Mosques ..... the usual or overall sentiment of PPL was "what are they (ahmadis) complaining about ???? afterall it's their fault to get massacred like that"
No Question about rising right wing extreme in europe but how many were killed by them in a decade ???? 10 ..... that's the number PPL get killed on a daily basis in Pakistan due to extremism .....
These Parties are not going to win the majority anyway .... coz PPL in Europe have seen enough of war and destruction due to these lunatics ..... and if there is a rising right then so is the rising left ..... France has Socialist Government ..... Germany might end up getting the SPD and Green Party again (both left oriented) .... and this goes on for many other countries in the EU
So no comparison here
Atleast the governments here aknowledge that there something foul which needs to be corrected ..... and a number of measures are taken that ur basic human rights r guaranteed .... i wish i could say the same about Pakistan
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
- I lived in Switzerland from 1999 to 2005. I go back every year.
And how many of those far right parties have gained seats in parliaments in the past 10 years? eh? You speak of France and Germany. What about the Netherlands, Denmark and Austria? Do note that in the current elections Le Pen's party got roughly 20 percent of the popular vote. What does that say about France?
Nobody is denying that Ahamdis are discriminated against. They are treated inhumanely and unfairly and the laws and actions are repugnant. However what you are doing is what most Pakistanis do. The Taliban are bad. But the Afghan Taliban are our Taliban so its okay.
You do realize that EU nations implementing laws that infringe on the rights of minorities is exactly what Pakistan has done and they have done the same thing. You call one abhorrent. You say the other is not that bad. Hypocrisy.
Secondly how does this relate to the life of Abdus Salam? I can understand that under Zia's period the discrimination increased. But do tell me of cases where Abdus Salam was discriminated against because it seems he lived a very important life till he decided to leave.
Re: Pakistan’s contribution to Higgs boson
U refuse to answer the part where PPLs life is taken … why don’t u simply compare the actions of EU far rights/extremists with Pakistani far rights/extremists ???
and then go one and compare how the basic rights r protected in the EU and Pakistan !!!
You do realize that in Europe ppl don’t get killed because of these laws on a daily basis
Abdus Salam left out of protest for what was being done to the minority he belonged to … and BTW whenever he came back and was supposed to held a speech in one of the universities he was threatened by students … Prof. Hoodbhoy said they threatened to break his legs or even kill him … i Think his statement is in Dawn or The News just recently (i guess the link is posted in this very thread somewhere) …
On a lighter note look at the most recent copy of the satirical magazine “Titanic” from Frankfurt
Satirical mag shows Pope with pee stain | Weird | News | Toronto Sun
The Pope sue them and they had to stop the selling of this copy
U hopefully realize that no catholic suicide bomber or gunman stormed the premises of this magazine to solve the Problem but rather the court … PPL here sure have their opinion but they don’t take the Law into their hands and every step is taken it doesn’t happen at all … the unfortunate Guy in Bahawalpur had little luck in this regard