For god sakes man. Get your head out of the sand. In Europe, these groups and whhat they stand for are still considered firnge. There are people who vote for them im sure, but they dont represent the majority. And just because they voted for them, still does not mean that they agree with everyone of their policy vis-e-vis Muslims and immigrants. You blindly posty links as if you are strengthening your case, but all your doing is adding more ambiguity. The rise of the far right in Europe and what it means for Europeans is not as simple as just googling up some article.
Beyond this, your doing nothing but setting up a false equivalence. There is no comparison between European far right and Pakistani far right. For example, Weilders might have called for the banning of the Koran, but he is still not allowed to get away with saying that they should be rounded up and killed, something that would be more acceptable to say of Ahmadis in Pakistan. The countries that have seen the rise of the Far right still hold religous liberty as cornerstone of their democracy, so you will never hear that Muslims are no longer allowed to build Mosques, nor will you hear that a Muslim is on death row for uttering a supposed blasphemy against Christianity. And if 100 Muslims were murdered in cold blood by a Christian in Europe, even those where they have far right govts, you wouldnt see people celebrating or blaming the victims, and certainly they would arrest who ever was responisible.
Now quit the stupid comparisons. Pakistani mainstream bigotry is unprescedented. The only thing I could compare it to is the hatred between hutu and tutsi, or the collective revulsion of Jews during Nazi era Germany.
I was in Pakistan in June 2010 3 days after the Attacks in Lahore on Ahmadi Mosques ..... the usual or overall sentiment of PPL was "what are they (ahmadis) complaining about ???? afterall it's their fault to get massacred like that"
No Question about rising right wing extreme in europe but how many were killed by them in a decade ???? 10 ..... that's the number PPL get killed on a daily basis in Pakistan due to extremism .....
These Parties are not going to win the majority anyway .... coz PPL in Europe have seen enough of war and destruction due to these lunatics ..... and if there is a rising right then so is the rising left ..... France has Socialist Government ..... Germany might end up getting the SPD and Green Party again (both left oriented) .... and this goes on for many other countries in the EU
So no comparison here
Atleast the governments here aknowledge that there something foul which needs to be corrected ..... and a number of measures are taken that ur basic human rights r guaranteed .... i wish i could say the same about Pakistan
Well said.
A friend of mine from Wah Cant told me when he went to school the next following the Lahore murders, the students were passing out Mithai.
I lived in Switzerland from 1999 to 2005. I go back every year.
And how many of those far right parties have gained seats in parliaments in the past 10 years? eh? You speak of France and Germany. What about the Netherlands, Denmark and Austria? Do note that in the current elections Le Pen's party got roughly 20 percent of the popular vote. What does that say about France?
Nobody is denying that Ahamdis are discriminated against. They are treated inhumanely and unfairly and the laws and actions are repugnant. However what you are doing is what most Pakistanis do. The Taliban are bad. But the Afghan Taliban are our Taliban so its okay.
You do realize that EU nations implementing laws that infringe on the rights of minorities is exactly what Pakistan has done and they have done the same thing. You call one abhorrent. You say the other is not that bad. Hypocrisy.
Secondly how does this relate to the life of Abdus Salam? I can understand that under Zia's period the discrimination increased. But do tell me of cases where Abdus Salam was discriminated against because it seems he lived a very important life till he decided to leave.
With the bigots in Pak behaving like animals, and people in Europe seeing these beasts that call themselves Muslims butchering each other every other day without a care in the world, are you really so surprised that these people would be concerned if they had people from Pakistan and other Muslim countries living among them? After seeing the bestial nature of the Pakistani mob, and the self appointed guardians of Islamic deen, I think I would be voting for a far right anti immigration anti Muslim party myself.
I don’t refuse to answer it because I agree with you. Most far right parties in Europe do not have militant wings. More importantly they are educated and smart enough to realize they can do more damage with migration laws and laws that discriminate against minorities while in power.
I already did compare. Minority rights are dismal in both countries, more so in Europe when the average European’s education level is far superior than that of Pakistans. 100% literacy vs 40% literacy. If you can’t understand that well then sir you are beyond reasoning.
Abdus Salam never came back. He was planning on coming back in 1994 (20 years after he left) and then people protested and threatened him. But he never set foot in Pakistan after 1974.
Now back to my simple question. Can anybody provide proof that he was discriminated against during his role in as an Advisor to the President.
A question since we are busy discussing personal elements. How many of you defending Abdus Salam are Ahmadis. Just wanna know if its religious dogmatic bias or something else?
Who forgot his contribution? Umm Pakistan… i GUESS Everyone is Lying, and you were the sole intelect to have grasped this grand conspiracy!
ttp://gulfnews.com/news/world/pakistan/pakistan-s-lone-nobel-laureate-no-hero-at-home-1.1046779
Pakistan’s then-president, Gen Zia ul-Haq, presented Abdus Salam with Pakistan’s highest civilian honour after he won the Nobel Prize, the general response in the country was muted. The physicist was celebrated more enthusiastically by other nations, including Pakistan’s arch-enemy, India.
Despite his achievements, Abdus Salam’s name appears in few textbooks and is rarely mentioned by Pakistani leaders or the media. By contrast, fellow Pakistani physicist A.Q. Khan, who played a key role in developing the country’s nuclear bomb and later confessed to spreading nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya, is considered a national hero. Khan is a Muslim.
Officials at Quaid-i-Azam University had to cancel plans for Abdus Salam to lecture about his Nobel-winning theory when Islamist student activists threatened to break the physicist’s legs, said his colleague Hoodbhoy.
“The way he has been treated is such a tragedy,” said Hoodbhoy. “He went from someone who was revered in Pakistan, a national celebrity, to someone who could not set foot in Pakistan. If he came, he would be insulted and could be hurt or even killed.”
*Nobel Laureate Wiped From Pakistan’s Textbooks As Heretic - Slashdot
Alexander Abad-Santos writes that in any other country, the late Dr. Abdus Salam would be a national hero: he’s the Nobel laureate in physics who laid the groundwork for the biggest physics discovery in the past 30 years–the Higgs boson. But that isn’t the case in Pakistan, where Salam has been wiped from textbooks and history for not being fundamentalist enough. ‘He belonged to the Ahmadi sect, which has been persecuted by the government and targeted by Taliban militants who view its members as heretics,’ says Sebastian Abbot. ‘His grand unification theory of strong, weak and electromagnetic fields opened the gateway for the discovery of bosons and laid down the basis for this quantum electrodynamics project,’ writes Anam Khalid Alvi for Pakistan’s Express Tribune. But Pakistan can’t celebrate his achievements, since Ahmadis like Salam are and were prevented from ‘posing as Muslims,’ and can be punished with prison and even death. By contrast, fellow Pakistani physicist A.Q. Khan, who played a key role in developing the country’s nuclear bomb and later confessed to spreading nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya, is considered a national hero. Khan is a Muslim." Pakistan
A simple google search would answer many of your doubts…
Spare yourself any further embarrassment and stop posting. You look stupider each time.
And the fact of the matter is that he is PAKISTANS ONLY NOBEL LAUREATE. This isn’t a small thing. Talk about OTHER Pakistanis, i don’t even think you understand the basics of what he did. if the state truly wanted to promote the man as a Pakistani icon, then they would TEACH students about his accomplishment. Assuming the professors teaching the course aren’t attacked and beaten to death.
The nobel prize is given to people who make genuine contributions to man kind that impacts our lives. People who think the prize isn’t worth paying attention to are Mentally retarded.
Before I went to college and got an actual education, I had no clue what Einstein actually did, or what Newton contributed, but I sure as hell knew who they were… Why? Because great men are memorialized. Everyone, even a 5 year old has heard of Einstein. And your excuse for why no one has heard of Abdus Salam, the countries only noble laureate praised around the world is thaT Pakistanis are uneducated? That may be, but I’m sure they know who AQ Khan is.
Face it, had he been Sunni, the country would have been in convulsions trying to contain its pride over being the birth place of the man who laid the foundation for the the discovery of the Boson, as they do with other Pakistanis who make a name for themselves outside the country. Pakistanis jump at the chance of owning the accomplishments of any Pakistani who does anything remotely great, but Salam is the exception, and its due solely to collective bigotry of society.
Quite honestly we would not have CNN or any anchor even talk about this man being from Pakistan, had he not been Ahmadi.
Well why not... Injustice is something ALL human beings can relate to...
Also, the Higgs Boson is a big deal, so the scientist who paved the way for its discovery would obviously get coverage. Is it coincidence that his mention coincides with the discovery of the Higgs Boson?
Honestly, whats your point? Admit the man's greatness and move on. I mean how many Nobles have you won?
Quite honestly we would not have CNN or any anchor even talk about this man being from Pakistan, had he not been Ahmadi.
Not true b/c CNN also talks about Pakistani Taliban, AQ Khan & many others. His faith has nothing to do with why there is story about him. This remarkable man was disowned by his country & that is why there is story about his. Of course, Taliban/terrorist apologists are expect to understand this.
Yeah and CNN always highlights the negative aspects. Ever seen a Western Media outlet highlight a positive article about Pakistan in the past 10 years?
I know all what is there in media. No need for me to read again and again. They all have similar structure. Same discussion about him being Ahmadi MORE than a scientific.
He is mentioned ‘rarely’ in textbooks. This statement has different meaning for one person than other. What maybe ‘adequate’ for one person can be rare for others.
He is acknowledged. His grave says that. Even without him being considered muslim (according to understanding of vast majority of population in Pakistan and by its law) despite that he is acknowledged as a great scientist.
You just have problem with him not being acknowledged as a muslim. And that is the essence of your argument if one looks at it.
What injustice?
Was he put in jail or sanctioned or had any restrictions imposed on him for being an Ahmadi?
Was he disrespected by people?
Was he condemned for his work in science?
Do people say anything negative for him as a person?
Now, what you wrote (in bold),
“Admit the man’s greatness and move on.”
Are you willing to say this to CNN/Media or Hoodbhoy and company?
Why can’t they leave his religion aside, and praise him for his scientific achievement?
No, they would rather spend more time on his religious background since it suits their negative motive!!
About media:
Why is that his religious background talked so much when what he did was completely unrelated to his religious background?
I mean come on. How many noble winners are identified by their religious convictions in the media?
Even if he is the only Ahmadi person with this achievement , what does this have to do with his work?
Do you live in a bubble? What have we been talking about through out this debate? You and CM are about the most insensitive and most deluded individuals on the forum. I mean of course ignoring the contributions of Paks greatest scientist is an injustice, otherwise no one would cover it. Problem is you live in denial.
The Media talks about it because its a fact that the treatment meted to the good Dr Salam is AN INJUSTICE. You don’t like to hear the truth so you attack the messenger. How intelligent of you.
No not at all.. What is is rare is rare for everyone. The fact is that Pakistans history books and every other book in Pak schools is littered with half truth, distortions and bigotry. Its not surprising the Pakistanis have expelled Salam, because who would want to acknowledge an Ahmadi? You just want to live in denial. Continue you merry delusion.
And according to EVERYONE other then you and CM, he is not given any credit in Pakistan. Are you so arrogant as to think your the only one to have it right?
The INJUSTICE is having your legacy trounced on. You don’t have to be thrown in prison for that. The injustice is that Pakistanis intentionally undermine his accomplishment and contributions to his country. His sole reward, his grave being desecrated (although in your mind that probably a good thing).
EVERYONE has a problem with the way Pakistan has treated the man and his legacy, go argue with the facts. I could care less what Pakistanis think of his faith. These are the same people who beat a mentally disabled man to death and then lit his corpse on fire, so why expect anything rational out of them?
People say “Abdus Salam? You mean that Mirzai!” Then when you mention his Nobel, they say “The Nobel is a sham” they give it to Jews and other enemies of Muslims.." This i have heard from educated people.
Yes they do say negative of him. They say he abandoned his country, they say he betrayed his country, they accuse him of being aloof, of being self centered.. They basically go to any length to portray him as someone worthy of scorn. Go back and read some of the comments on this forum.
HoodBhoy and others are only showing you people the mirror. You don’t like the image you see in the mirror. You don’t like the message so you attack the messenger. Usual tactics.
They would leave his religion alone if the injustice wasn’t rooted in his religion. If Pakistanis respected people for who they were and not how they pray or who they pray to, there would be no need to bring it up. As it is, the story of Dr Abdus Salam is rooted in his faith and perceptions of Pakistanis towards that faith. Anyone who studies his life would be taken aback by how he was treated, an only because he was Ahmadi.
How many Nobel laureates belong to a community like the Ahmadi? How many Nobel Laureates are treated the way he was and continues to be? The reason they mention his faith is because, unlike you who live in denial, EVERYONE with half a brain can see that his religion warrants mention. I guess they mention it because of disgust at the way he i treated…
Perhaps instead of questioning their motives you look at what they are saying and examine it yourself. For someone who claims to be such a humanitarian, you certainly are insensitive.
Listen to what they are saying on CNN. Your head won’t explode, but you will be enlightened.
There is no conspiracy, people everywhere genuinely are disgusted by Pakistanis for the way in which they have treated the great scientist. That is why they mention it. You are in denial, wake up. No inteligent person agrees with you, EXCEPT for those people who have their own agenda in trying to deny there is even a problem (Like CM and you… )
He was a great scientist, one and only nobel scientist who was born in Pakistan…(regardless of his religion like other were regardless of their religions in the history of mankind), that’s all you had to say instead of writing long posts with so much emotions. I think he was.
I would have same problem if any other scientist with any other religion/sect is so strongly identified by his/her religion.
Clear enough?
i can go on, but it seems apparent that you have no clue what your talking about. There are plenty of positive reports on Pak.
The problem is, the negative issues often overshadow all the good. Someone doing a good deed somewhere, naturally takes a back seat to reports of a dozen or more Hazara being killed in Balochistan, or explosions killing and maiming countless people.
And of course, the injustice and ignomany hurled at Abdus Salam, the pioneer of the Higgs Boson is relevant on the eve of such a discovery.
He was a great scientist, one and only nobel scientist who was born in Pakistan....(regardless of his religion like other were regardless of their religions in the history of mankind), that's all you had to say instead of writing long posts with so much emotions. I think he was. :)
I would have same problem if any other scientist with any other religion/sect is so strongly identified by his/her religion.
Clear enough?
Its not me you have to convince, its the rest of your countrymen. If you think there is nothing to condemn Pakistan for, then your living with your head in the sand
Why would they need to mention anyone else's religion? No other scientist is disrespected to the degree Dr Salam is based solely on religion. The only reason it warrants mention is because its the basis for the injustice which is prevalent in Pak against Dr Salam and his community. Is it so complicated for you?
If your so deluded as to think Pakistanis have embraced the man, then simply go to YouTube and read some comments by your fellow PAKISTANIS. Or simply walk the streets and ask people. Mention to them if they don't know that he was an ahmadi, and then gauge their response. These are facts.
Snookums read your own articles. They aren’t being positive about Pakistan. They are saying how much the Taliban had sway before the military moved in. Its all focused vis a vis the Taliban. Show me an article that does not link with terrorism.
Its not me you have to convince, its the rest of your countrymen. If you think there is nothing to condemn Pakistan for, then your living with your head in the sand
Why would they need to mention anyone else's religion? No other scientist is disrespected to the degree Dr Salam is based solely on religion. The only reason it warrants mention is because its the basis for the injustice which is prevalent in Pak against Dr Salam and his community. Is it so complicated for you?
If your so deluded as to think Pakistanis have embraced the man, then simply go to YouTube and read some comments by your fellow PAKISTANIS. Or simply walk the streets and ask people. Mention to them if they don't know that he was an ahmadi, and then gauge their response. These are facts.
I think you are saying that those who love to mention his religion on media and the articles are simply gullible people and do this because, in your opinion, Pakistani people talk about his religion too.
What kind of logic is that?
If you think it is incorrect to mention his religion then why follow the examples of what some or any Pakistani do/does?
Why use their shoulders or looking for excuse to talk negatively?
Do you live in a bubble? What have we been talking about through out this debate? You and CM are about the most insensitive and most deluded individuals on the forum. I mean of course ignoring the contributions of Paks greatest scientist is an injustice, otherwise no one would cover it. Problem is you live in denial.