If its looks extermists that I am bashing Islam My humble appolgy in advance.
As another thread in PA going on for discussion almost on same topic Mods are free to mixed it with old on.
We must need a cure for this cancer which spreading in our society on the name of Islam, I am agreed that not every one Qari or Mollvie involved in it or all madrassas BUT there are huge conspiries/stories and almost proved one are presents in front of us that This is the time we realy realy look into this matter very seriously and try to adopt some quick actions to Get in Order the system of Madrassa by strict rules, in current system we not have much getting but producing jehadies and human bombers.
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
Yep
It’s seems there is nothing wrong Oh my bad I quote a western media it’s must be a Jewish Sazish they opened a lot of Religious instituations under fake identities:chupki: Allah ham sab ko inke shar
Se Panah de Ameen.
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
It's not the end of the story.. a lot of seminaries are safe havens for every type of crime. Most of the seminaries have loads of illegal weapons stored inside, and they are indulged in every kind of criminality from kidnapping to extortion. You can hire gangsters from these seminaries to get possession of your disputed land/properties.. for payment collection.. or any activity which requires show of force/ghunda gardi.
Today every textile printing mill in Faisalabad has a religious compliance department which hires people from these seminaries.. it's a way of collecting bhatta by these madrasas. Every design/print is certified by this religious compliance department. If you don't hire their gangsters they just raid the factories with a mob.. burn the factories.. kill people. Some of the factory owners have lost their lives in these mob raids.
Police normally does not want to raid these madrassas to recover illegal arms. These seminaries are safest places to hide for the criminals.
All this madrassa business has become a lucrative crime syndicate with the facade of religion. Some of the most hard core criminals reside there. They are making tons of money through unchecked mafia style criminality.
Normal people will just sing to the tune that 9 out of 10 of these madrassas are resided by angels... while the truth is exactly opposite.
We need to control entry/exit points of these madrassas.. they must recover all kind of illegal arms from them. Every madrassas must be strictly controlled by a governing body consisting of the children parents/government.
If we don't start controlling these madrassas/criminal dens.. just because of the propaganda that "Islam khatrey main parh jae gaa"... they will give such a bad name to Islam "Keh waqai hee, Islam kahtrey main parh jae gaa"...
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
^^ Last year i went to a newly built madrassa in Lahore because my friend want to donate a Bakra ( real one, for sadqa), when i was there, the guy who was huge told me that the monthly expense of the Madrassa is about Rs. 7 Lakhs a month well my eyes popped out, it is big amount to raise every month...
Now that was not huge madarass think about the big ones we have in South Punjab, built on donations from Kuwait, Saudi and UAE, and now when Al-Qaida and Taliban threat is there, these countries were forced to cut that donation... but these madrassas are still there and they need money to operate their day to day business, for which they come down to every mean... which may include kidnapping and extortion.
What we need to do to counter these problems is, try to persuade people to not to send their children to these institutes, many send their kids just because these institutes provides them with food and shelter and some what education...
If we as a member of society can make a committee kind of thing in our local communities and try to help these families by taking care of the school and other related expenses of their kids, it will help us big time.... once out of audience, these madrassas will fade away.... but without providing proper alternative to the students and to the people who send their kids to these madrasas, any action against such can create a huge out-cry
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
^ most of the people who send their children to madrassas are from lower middle /poor classes. These people usually have a lot of kids and they cant afford to support them so its easier to send them to a madrassa where they know they will get some education, food and shelter. Unless the state fulfils its own responsibilities, it doesnt matter we can keep discussing this topic on this forum and people will keep sending their kids to madrassas. Its so strange that the madrassas and banned organizations (LET/ Falah e Insaniyat Foundation) have been providing more help to people in natural disasters as compared to the government...
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
^^^
People just don't send their children to these seminaries.. they forget the children after sending them. Why can't they make some parent's governing body to see what is actually happening inside. One thing is you are poor, you have a lot of children, and you can't afford their education/food. The other thing is to abandon them.. take no interest in the affairs of the institution. It's a mind set that everything should be blamed on government.. society. Don't they have any responsibility towards their children?
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
^ most of the people who send their children to madrassas are from lower middle /poor classes. These people usually have a lot of kids and they cant afford to support them so its easier to send them to a madrassa where they know they will get some education, food and shelter. Unless the state fulfils its own responsibilities, it doesnt matter we can keep discussing this topic on this forum and people will keep sending their kids to madrassas. Its so strange that the madrassas and banned organizations (LET/ Falah e Insaniyat Foundation) have been providing more help to people in natural disasters as compared to the government...
If we are going to leave everything on the govt then our fate is sealed... today our nature is we would donate handsome amount to some hospital or trust or welfare NGO but won't help or will be reluctant to help those who live in our neighbor or close by societies.... and for this reluctance we have made up good excuses, e.g. Govt should help them, Why they have so many kids, why they do not work hard, why this why that.... and then go on to donate our money to somewhere else and have all kind of sympathy with a hungry family living in our neighbor telling them, soon govt is going to launch a project for you or govt should do something about it...
Wake up, these madrassas and threats are for real, we have blamed everyone for our short-comings, these madrasas are there and are flourishing because we as a member of society have done nothing about them...
Why can't 10-20-30 household of some posh or well-to-do society can collect some money internally and invest that money on the poor neighborhood... i am sure, together these household can comeup with some 30-40 thousand rupees a month, this amount is enough to pay for tuition fee and other related expenses for 20-25 students.... this is long term investment, the fruit will benefit our coming generations.... again leaving everything on govt is not solution of the problems....
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
Well the parents have a responsibility but you cant deny the reality that there is a correlation in our country between poverty and people having more kids (kids going to madrasaahs). Besides the kids who will grow up on footpaths amidst poverty even if they don't go to madrasahs they might have tendencies for taking revenge from the Society . The government takes taxes from the people who can afford it, and they should invest some of that for the people as well (like other countries). Leave every thing aside why is pakistan's governments performance lack luster even in national disasters. When the government will do nothing for the people, there would be people who will take advantage of the void.
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
^^^
TCF and Care Foundation run thousands of schools in Pakistan providing free education to hundreds of thousands of children. These schools are run strictly on a management system with a transparent audit of the funds given to them.
There is a lot of money available in the system for these madrassas. As hanibal has pointed out due to the affairs of these madrassas a lot of potential funds are not coming anymore from middle east. It's not the money.. I think much more money can be raised if management/systems of these madrassas can be improved.
There has to be a viable mechanism to improve the working of these madrassas and improving the syllabus to not only religious education.. but real meaningful skill development.
Actually any suggestion to control these madrassas through a strict management system is fiercely opposed by the people who are managing these institutions just because they will lose their criminal dens if they are forced to follow a strict code of conduct/management system. As a society we need to act with zero tolerance policy against this resistance if we want to improve the affairs..
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
Hazrat Umar bin Abdul aziz used to say that he is responsible for even a dog who dies on the banks of dajla and farat, I know our rulers can't reach that position. The government has the biggest responsibility in looking after the people, it's sad that we have forgotten that whereas the western countries have adopted some of those values.
I remember a few years ago when the Danish cartoon controversy first came to light, some religious parties had called for a procession on mall road. I was really stunned by the way mobs of children ransacked everything that came in their way cars, motorcycles, traffic lights, banks, buildings etc. the overall crime rate in the country has also gone up tremendously as the gap is widening between the haves and have nots ( and that has nothing to do with madrasahs by the way).
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
*Hazrat Umar bin Abdul aziz used to say that he is responsible for even a dog who dies on the banks of dajla and farat, I know our rulers can't reach that position. The government has the biggest responsibility in looking after the people, it's sad that we have forgotten that whereas the western countries have adopted some of those values. *
I remember a few years ago when the Danish cartoon controversy first came to light, some religious parties had called for a procession on mall road. I was really stunned by the way mobs of children ransacked everything that came in their way cars, motorcycles, traffic lights, banks, buildings etc. the overall crime rate in the country has also gone up tremendously as the gap is widening between the haves and have nots ( and that has nothing to do with madrasahs by the way).
There is even more and strict Ahadees coming out directly from our Prophet (SAAW) regarding the right of neighbor and our duty to them... i wonder if have forgotten that because unlike the quoted text, those ahadees applies on us...
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
In any case the responsibility of the state is the highest as it has maximum resources at its disposal, as far as the middle class people are concerned they try to help as much as they can, I cannot speak for the rich lot. What can you expect from people who have millions and billions at their disposal (stacked in foreign banks) and they pay less tax than 17 grade officers.
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
^^^
TCF and Care Foundation run thousands of schools in Pakistan providing free education to hundreds of thousands of children. These schools are run strictly on a management system with a transparent audit of the funds given to them.
..
Good on them, I didn't know about these people we do need more organizations like these through out the country.
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
Hazrat Umar bin Abdul aziz used to say that he is responsible for even a dog who dies on the banks of dajla and farat, I know our rulers can't reach that position. The government has the biggest responsibility in looking after the people, it's sad that we have forgotten that whereas the western countries have adopted some of those values.
I remember a few years ago when the Danish cartoon controversy first came to light, some religious parties had called for a procession on mall road. I was really stunned by the way mobs of children ransacked everything that came in their way cars, motorcycles, traffic lights, banks, buildings etc. the overall crime rate in the country has also gone up tremendously as the gap is widening between the haves and have nots ( and that has nothing to do with madrasahs by the way).
We have to be realistic. Everything can not be provided free of cost. To provide education to the children we need money.. it easier to shift the blame on the government but really we have to find avenues to fund all the operation. Without raising funds no government can take care of education.
having said that.. there is no shortage of funds for the education system be it madrassa or school. a lot more can be raised from International donors, our expatriate community, well to do sections of our own society...
The main problem in this sector is the management, policies, transparency of the usage of these funds..
With respect to madrassa sector this problem is more acute. Their main problem is their resistance to any reform suggested for the betterment of this sector. We can quote as many ahadees as we like.. but without providing funds we can not make any meaningful change/reform. This change/reform is directly related to the improvement in the inflow of funds.. which is directly related to the management of this sector.
The main reason for the sorry state of this sector is the resistance from within this sector to reform.. not the dearth of funds as you are suggesting..
All these miseries of the poor people are good as a political slogan.. but does not suggest any practical solution to the problem.. and the viable solution is to reform the management of this sector, bring them under a code of conduct, externally audit their funds, control the syllabus.. and all this needs political will by the government not to bow under pressure from the criminals disguised as religious mullahs.. who resist these reforms..
Re: Pakistan police rescue students chained in seminary
Today every textile printing mill in Faisalabad has a religious compliance department which hires people from these seminaries.. it's a way of collecting bhatta by these madrasas. Every design/print is certified by this religious compliance department. If you don't hire their gangsters they just raid the factories with a mob.. burn the factories.. kill people. Some of the factory owners have lost their lives in these mob raids.
They are criminal enterprises made halal by attaching Islam to it. Once thats done, anything goes...killings, rapes, child molestation you name it.