Farhat and Butt are both probably the most talented openers in Pakistan right now. That itself says a lot. Butt is short of confidence, thus, he is struggling and Farhat is a very confident player, infact I believe he is better than Butt, but needs to work on his shot selection. He reminds of the old Younis Khan, getting in the 20's or 30's and then giving it away after the hard work.
One thing I know for sure is that Hameed or Taufeeq are NOT and will NEVER be the solution to our problem.
When you question Pakistan player abilities and start critising them or the team - some people on this forum automatically assume that the person maybe anti Pakistan team, is assumed English or Indian supporter.
When you criticize just for the sake of criticism, then you get a stern response. Criticizing the whole Pakistan team before the start of the tour as if they don't stand a chance against the mighty englishmen obviously will not be appreciated by many
But when you come up with a genuine criticism, you will notice a much more positive response like you are getting in this thread.
Pakistan is suffering it's worst opening crises since Saeed anwar and Sohail left. During the last 18 months our middle order however has performed and has compensated for the poor show of openers.
A fully packed middle order in the form of Inzi, younis and yousuf has resulted in exclusion of talented players like Faisal Iqbal and Asim Kamal. During all this time I firmly believed that one of these 2 should get a chance as an opener, not because they are not getting a spot in the middle order but mainly because some free loaders are having fun in the team and some talented players are sitting on benches. However, whenever I said that here, people always use to come with with this middle order batsman theory. But I am glad finally people are willing to accept this change. Lets see how soon our team management will be willing to try out a new opening combination.
In fact he looked more awful then the likes of Butt and Farhat. I am afraid he is not the solution to the current or the long term batting problems facing Pakistan.
bhai sahib, look at the last few scores from Yasir Hameed when he was given a few chances in last tour of Australia, I am sure it will not make you happy, but you wouldn't be passing these judgements after that, or so I hope.
Very constructive posts by everyone! A great read, this thread. I love these kinds of back-and-forth discussions.
Lets go with Farhat and Faisal.
Butt should be dropped.
I am not for dropping Butt, but retaining Farhat? Even after what happened throughout the duration of five days where we got robbed out of the victory simply because of his trash fielding? What if he has managed to add a little bit to his overnight score than Butt? 51 vs. his other counter-part 10 with 3 dropped catches, does that really warrant another inclusion in the side?
Salman Butt for the whole series, I am with you. We need to groom him and watch over him consistently in this hard period of time from where he has difficulty passing through. The criteria to be judged in this situation on who to drop between the two comes down the fielding and fielding only, and Salman Butt is miles ahead of Farhat when it comes to holding clean catches. Farhat should be let go, there is just no hope in watching him bat or field.
His flagrant and heinous piece of fielding, on top of that. Lest I say that he was the main reason why we managed to drew the first test from a possible position where we could have gone on to win it, in all likelihood. The guy cannot catch to save his life. Prepare for my hanging already!
Crises, there is. Competition in International Cricket, indeed. But why, why and why in God's name do we have to sacrifice quality over quantity is beyond my comprehension. How many players have been tested in that position, yet none of them - absolutely none of them - have resurfaced and re-established themselves as solid batters with half-decent technique even after the management retained their confidence in them, over time, for the maximum amount of periods possible. What-if Faisal goes down the same drain as the rest of them? What-if he fails to amount to a respectable score and is immediately dropped from the entire series solely based on his current record? We know the exact same has occured in the past with Salman Butt. Do we really want to sacrifice a possible and future potential candidate, a replacement of Inzamam at that, to hang up his boots, even though he has not yet fully touched his prime, just because he failed to score big in one innings? What is stopping the selectors from restricting him in the side, on the above basis?
Exactly, and this is the reasoning from my side. We all witnessed him fail in the first innings and if it was not for Younis Khan, he would have stood a greater chance for the selection but the balance has shifted from his standpoint and he now stands a much weaker chance of getting selected simply because of the former's return. A grave unfortunate turn of events, if you ask me!
Change is good, yes. Change is always good, but when a comparison is made on behalf of Faisal Iqbal which lightly places him in the same boat as the likes of Tendulkar, Dravid and others, please note that these players were already an integral part of the team, and regardless of the positions they were tested in, their batting and fielding performances and not counting in their approach towards a certain bowler on any given track, these players had in hand, the immunity - they had the immunity which guaranteed their specification in the next match. As has already been mentioned numerous times in this thread, everytime Faisal has delivered, only then and only then his chances have looked brighter for selection for next match, but as long as our jam-packed middle order is trafficked with Inzamam, Yousuf and Younis, inserting Iqbal in that place is climbing mountain of an anthill. Faisal does not have the option in the palm of his left hand and neither does his birth certificate has a stamp and a seal of approval which suggests that he will be picked in the squad for the next time around. Visiting party, he will be included in, yes, but it becomes almost impossible for him to become a permanent member on the roster, and in such delicate state of affairs, I would rather send him where he is most comfortable batting in, rather than unsettling him for all the wrong reasons.
I am strongly against Faisal opening. But we already tested a whole bunch of couples in that position, why not Faisal, you ask? There is a large volume of risk factor involved. Because it will be extremely hard from the selectors' point of view to pick him from the next tour, since he will be in a weak spot where if he does not fulfill the role of a certain player in the side, his chances of getting picked for next game will look slim to none.
Faisal Iqbal should not be dropped from the team. He should not, under any circumstances whatsoever, open the innings! What we want in the opening slot is specialists, not make-shifts. Salman Butt, he is a specialist. Imran Farhat, there is another one. Yes, Farhat of all people, he is a specialist, and I have just lighted myself on fire with a matchstick while typing this. Shoaib Malik is a replacement, he is not, repeat, he is not a specialist opener. I have seen him, I know what he looks like and his picture is etched into my memory. For the sake of christ, the guy literally hangs his bat vertically in the air while ducking to a short delivery, and even have been dismissed in this ridiculous fashion while doing so. He might have a better technique than both of our current batters combined, but he is simply not cut from the same cloth as the opening material. There is no hard-and-fast rule in the dictionary which states that a person has to be born in the kingdom of openers to be selected as one; but after consistently watching all of them bat in this stressful period of time, one can safely reach the conclusion that no matter how much of a love bond there might exist between Woolmer and Malik, the latter is not made for the handling in this position, even though the averages might point otherwise. Statistics sometimes fail to paint a pretty picture, which is precisely the case in this situation.
Yes if he fails as an opener, probably he will be discarded again for 1-2 years, which is nothing new for him.
It certainly reflects on the fighting spirits of our team and the ability to comeback after being cornered inside a dark alley. Not to ridicule Younis in any way, but Faisal has shown more confidence and a greater ability to handle pressure solely through and via his shoulders, perhaps equal on the same level of scale as our more experience batters, and this is, by far, exactly the reason why I am hugely against him getting selected in the opening slot. It will further dent his chances of ever coming back for Pakistan if he is unable to handle the new ball for a longer period of time.
A major, major NO to Faisal Iqbal opening. Drop him from the side if needed be, but I don't want to see selectors dropping their collective hats in one bucket as Iqbal is "tested out" for this position. God forbid, if he fails, and goes down the same pathway as the rest, we will lose another cardinal and primary blow to our batting line-up, and this is the last thing that we need to go through just a few short months before the World Cup. How come we don't see Inzamam situated at opening? Why does Mohammad Yousuf, the most senior player in the side after the former, consistently refuse to come at one-down position? Why don't they take responsibility for their actions, and rather the team's actions for that matter? When the most-beloved player is out for a duck on the first ball, you send in Faisal Iqbal to "see off the new ball"? Why not just detach a bomb to his body which would immediately blow up any chances of further inclusion in the side upon his dismissal? After all, he is not eating from the same plate as the others who went in the same lane but ultimately got off-track due to the brain imbalance of the nature of those selectors, is he? Just shoot him in the back as he runs down the pavilion, tripping over wires and other needless redundant items which are blocking his way on to becoming and achieving the status of one of the most prolific batters in the side one can have!
Yes played 2 matches in on the Australian tour…in the 1st test match scored 2 & 23; in the 2nd test match scored 58 & 63. These were the ONLY decent score on the entire Australian tour and didn’t do much in the ODI’s. Even when he scored - did he look comfortable? Not at all and had my doubts about how good he really was.
Where is Taufeeq Umar flying? To England? Tell him that after flying to England, stay in the airplane and get ready to fly back in Pakistan. This will save the ticket with discounts of half price.
dhobi_bhai: Very thoughtful post, I am glad to see I am among people who are as passionate about cricket as I am.
With all due respect, picking an opener does not, and should not be based on ‘gut feeling’ or other elements of romanticism such as “not being of opening material cloth.”
Statements like “Shoaib Malik” just isn’t a specialist opener, because he doesn’t look like it" are disingeneous because his average of 39.+ is acceptable as well as higher than all our other 'sepcial openers." I am all of not using Shoaib Malik using as an opener when we have two solid batsmen stable in the opening spots, but until then, Shoaib Malik / Faisal Iqbal can and should be used as openers. We can’t keep going through collapses just becuase we want to keep using “specialist openers” in BOTH the opening spots. That’s romanticism that has no room in today’s pragmatic world.
** Here’s a fun fact for you, Shoaib Malik as a Test opener has a career average of 39.9 (nearly 40) that is SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN ALL OUR CURRENT OPENERS, BUT ALSO OUR LAST GREAT SPECIALIST OPENER, Aamir Sohail, who has a Test average of 35
Even better, as a test opener he has an average of 43.62, MORE THAN ACCEPTABLE, and marginally lower than Saeed Anwar’s average of 45. **
If we listened to you, Shoaib Malik wouldn’t have been used to help with our recent surge in the test standings. Because not only is he not an opener, he’s not even a proper batsman according to you.
This is why Woolmer is a good coach, he pays attention on how he can COLLECTIVELY get the most out of our team by trying people in roles they hadn’t imagined before. He changed Kamran Akmal from a doubtful batsman to a matchwinning multi role player. His use of Shoaib Malik has helped us win many ODIs and tests. I am all for letting Woolmer polish players, assign them new roles, and in the process helping the ascent of Pakistan as a team.
If Faisal Iqbal fails to click as an opener, we won’t just drop and forget all about him. Fcuk, we haven’t even forgotten about Taufeeq Umer of all people, Faisal’s career is safe.
Well, Shoaib Malik’s average as an opener (43.+) is even higher than that of “specialist opener” Taufeeq Umer then.
Once again, I am not saying that we should always keep Shoaib Malik as our permanent test opener. I am just debunking the “specialist opener” coming out of womb as a born opener theory. We should make the best use of our available resources. Some players start somewhere in the order, but end up becoming “specialist openers,” whereas some start as specialist opener, and stay there throughout their careers.
We do need “specialist openers” rather than depending on makeshift solutions. But that doesn’t mean we can’t polish one of our existing batsmen into “specialist openers.”
Once again, I am not saying that we should always keep Shoaib Malik as our permanent test opener. I am just debunking the "specialist opener" coming out of womb as a born opener theory. We should make the best use of our available resources. Some players start somewhere in the order, but end up becoming "specialist openers," whereas some start as specialist opener, and stay there throughout their careers.
We do need "specialist openers" rather than depending on makeshift solutions. But that doesn't mean we can't polish one of our existing batsmen into "specialist openers."
Shoaib Malik is consistent and we need these kind of batsmen. On the other hand, I also prefer Faisal Iqbal because his shots are clear and straight forward, not edges and risky shots like of Imran Farhat.
Saeed Anwar took the lead when he opened with Amir Sohail and that is why their pair was successful. He set the pace of the game; he was involved with his partner and knew how to approach first 15 over. If we look at Australian players, Gilchrist does the same and Tendulkar for India (in ODI’s). A good opening partnership based on leadership, plan and approach. Someone who takes the lead, this is where our openers have failed. All of them are extremely talented, do have some flaws but it is not like other players of the world are all hunky dory, everyone has and it is about ironing them out. To say if we bring back Taufeeq and Yasir is going backward is a silly statement. Just after world cup ‘03 people said, brining Inzamam, Shoaib etc back is a step backward, Faisal came he had flaws than drop, came after three years and have looked even better. If you remember Australia also had troubles with their openers, sometimes Hayden sometimes Gilchrist, they stuck with them, why because they are openers.
We need to try openers, even if the pool comprises of Butt, Farhat, Umer and Hameed. Someone needs to take a lead and face the heat when opening. Butt showed promise but he only performed when his back was against the wall, it is unlikely that these players will not learn from their mistakes. Faisal, when he came to the pitch in second inngs for the First test was very tentative, he blocks most balls and than started playing. From that performance, I do not know why people are convinced he will make a good opener.
Taufiq, along with Hafeez is the worst possible choice for opening batsmen. Under no circumstances they should be given chance to play at international level. Both are complete disasters and have disgusting approach towards the game. The best they can be used is to fill a spot in a domestic team. Hameed can be improved, these two cannot. No sense is prevailing here if Taufiq is joining the team. It shows a total disregard for talent.
Yes. As a matter of fact, we do remember every single opener that has been tried-and-tested in this position since the departure of Anwar/Sohail. Where are they now? Vanished into thin air, you say? I had high hopes from Imran Nazir, and understandably so, since his stance at the crease was one of the exciting things to watch at that period in time when he managed to hit his peak during his stay. Plus, on top of it, he was a specialist opener, and a treat to watch when in full-flow. But what have you, after a few initial bursts, he managed to completely disappear into the background. Similar mediocrity started to spread in the camp with the likes of Taufeeq and Hafeez. One can argue that they are not cut out for International-level material, but still, they are specialist openers, in one way, shape, form or the other. Since we have a long list of them sidelined with various reasons, number one being the ever-popular discarded theory, why not persist with the current openers for a good period of time - the entire series, I am refering to, and not just a match or two, here and there - and then bring back some of the hungry old customers in front, and see how they fare this time around on wickets abroad? Honestly speaking, I don't see any reason why Faisal should be thrusted into a position where his career might very well be ended in a history of tragic and on a note where we might 'remember' him after his scores of zeros and tens as he will be thrown out and ultimately shown the door, but where we do 'remember' him would be the point where he would be a constant part of the 'A' team for tours all over the world - where in reality his current speciality is to strengthen our backbone which is one of the prime bonuses any team can have.
I am all for keeping Farhat in the team - save his enormous amount of world-class experience in the slip cordon - if this situation requires for Faisal to strictly persist with his usual middle-order spine and as an extra add-on to our backbone. Farhat is a mile and a half ahead of Faisal when it comes to hand-eye coordination with the new ball. The way he crashes the cherry into a thousand pieces without the need for a shredder on the way to the boundary - Iqbal can hardly even dare to imagine it in his wildest dreams. There is a world of difference between the two. One can be looked as a potential match-winner for Pakistan, down the road in the near future, with a handful of victories already pegged under his belt, constantly earning praises of his teammates and the captain. The other might as well be sent on a one-way ticket to Neptune with a ball in one hand in order to cope with their living environment and to see whether or not he can catch the ball standing with the farthest amount of distance from the sun without wearing any shades or a Aamir-esque bandana.
Not to forget the fact that Farhat slashes at balls in empty air wildly, gets edges as many as fielders can miss to catch, as soon as a fielder is able to catch the edged-ball we see him walking back to pavillion.
We need to try openers, even if the pool comprises of Butt, Farhat, Umer and Hameed. Someone needs to take a lead and face the heat when opening. Butt showed promise but he only performed when his back was against the wall, it is unlikely that these players will not learn from their mistakes. Faisal, when he came to the pitch in second inngs for the First test was very tentative, he blocks most balls and than started playing. From that performance, I do not know why people are convinced he will make a good opener.
(1) The example players you mentioned don't open in Test matches.
(2) In test matches, there is no concept of first 15 overs
(3) Your entire opinion has a heavy ODI bias
(4) We DO want an opener who can block and prevent early loss of wickets. Run rate hasn't been our problem, we don't need to fix it.
I am for trying Faisal as an opener. You are against it. Let's agree to disagree. I don't think either of us is going to convince each other and lucky for Woolmer, neither of us is on the selection committee.
Faisal Iqbal has clear shots and good timing with no edges on the bat like Imran Farhat. Faisal Iqbal is the best batsman against spinners, along with Hassan Raza.
