Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

This should have been done a long time ago. Perhaps railway would have not come to this disastrous situation. Instead of looking to China or other countries, PR should immediately make a long term plan for procurement of engines and training of railway officers and employess in India. Sooner the better.

http://www.dawn.com/2012/01/17/pakistan-likely-to-import-railway-engines-from-india.html

Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is exploring the option of importing locomotives from India to overcome a severe shortage which has badly affected freight and passenger operations of Pakistan Railways.

Informed sources told Dawn on Monday that import of locomotives from India was one of the options the government was currently studying.

Among other options under consideration is an offer by International Finance Corporation (IFC), a commercial arm of the World Bank, to participate in a public-private partnership to meet Pakistan Railways` fleet shortage and import of locomotives from China, Germany and the United States.

The idea of locomotivesimport from India has come from a Karachi-based company named Pemcon International Constructors which has reported thatall technical aspects of acceptability of Indian locomotives have already been agreed between Rites Ltd, the export wing of Indian Railways, and Pakistan Railways a couple of years agoPakistan Railways, the sources said, was arranging a meeting on Feb 2 in New Delhi of all relevant Indian stakeholders, including senior officials of the Indian Ministry of External Affairs, Ministry of Indian Railways, chairman of Indian Railways, Rites Ltd and Pakistani High Commission.The two sides are expected to discuss finalisation of adry leasing agreement for locomotives import.

The sources said that Minister for Railways Ghulam Ahmad Bilour and Minister for Foreign Affairs Hina Rabbani Khar had already given a go-ahead for the talks to determine how many locomotives could be made available by Rites Ltd of India Officials said the IFC had also expressed its interest to get involved in potential private sector investment in the PR through infrastructure project development facility (IPDF) of the ministry of finance and Railways` newly created PublicPrivate Partnership (PPP) depart-ment.

The PPP process involves developing the railways` sector on a commercial basis through an increased role of the private sector in the operation and management of locomotives. The IFC is offering an advisory role as well as investment in the railways.

The number of operational locomotives of the Pakistan Railways has drastically come down just to 149 from 528 in a matter of a few years.

The PRs overdraft has exceeded Rs40 billion, debt liability touched Rs26 billion and operational losses stood at Rs6 billion as of December 15, 2011, forcing the prime minister to put an indefinite moratorium on repayment of PRs interest pay-ments.

The prime minister had directed the ministry of finance to instruct the State Bank of Pakistan to withhold at source deductions till such time as it is agreed that PR`s financial position permitted interest repayments.

Simultaneously, the PR has sought immediate disposal of railways lands for generating funds to upgrade railways operations for survival and long-term sustainability.

The secretary of railways has informed the government that rent is not being recovered for the land leased out to several public and private parties and these lands are under unauthorised occupation of influentialencroachers, state institutions and because of the possibility of law and order situation, no action is being taken against them.

Due to financial difficulties and non-availability of full fleet of locomotives, only profitable routes were at present in operation, according to Pakistan Railways.

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

Your posts remind me of PTV khabarnama.

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

Challo jee raj raj kar jatay jatay bhi commission kha lo :omg:

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

Jahan Ravi chain he chain likhta hay :cobra:

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

Per India ne yeh keh kar udhar deene se mana nahin kar dia tha ' Naqd bade shoq se udhar agle chowk se'

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

So the trains made in India will be better than Chinese? Secondly will those trains be able to operate without oil in their engines? Thirdly has railways got enough money to purchase the engines?

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

Hahahahahaha :omg:

Abhe bhe chain nhe jiyalo ko :rotfl:

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

What type of training ? like Veena got :omg: :rotfl:
Challo jee politician’s tou doroon par ja kar ayashi kartay he thay aab yah officers bhi chally aiyashiyaan karnay “awam kay kharchay par” :smack2:

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

Ittna agar sochtay to 4 years main Pakistan kay liye kuch kar nah jatay :naraz:

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

At Sooner the Better :rotfl:

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

Ethay Rakh :smack2: Ittni zamain harap kar kay bhi PM sahib ka pait naheen bhara jo aab railway key baqi manda lands bhi oonay poonay damoon apnay baitay aur bhai kay naam say kharaidnay ka irrada rakhtay hain :cobra:

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

The government tried to portray that the Chinese Engines failed due to their substandard quality, where as it was later found out that the engines were damaged intentionally by using substandard oil. Use that kind of oil in any engine/vehicle and the engine will seize after some time. If the Chinese engines failed, whats the guarantee that the Indian engines will keep running if the operating conditions remain same? Niyyat theek honi chaahiyay!

Anyways the article is talking about studying the proposal to buy from India, and by the time it will be materialized I think the government would have gone by then. Its very late now, they have wasted four years of the country and now they are studying things.

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

:frowning:

On appointment of Baloor (Transporter) as Railway Minister we can only say Billi kay hathoon doodh key rakhwali :naraz:

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

The problem is if SC takes action it becomes biased and the government victims…

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MG28Df03.htmlCritics say it is inefficiency and corruption that have landed Pakistan Railways in trouble. **Corruption cost the company more than 4 billion rupees in the past year, according to an audit report by the Auditor General of Pakistan. ****

The report revealed corrupt misappropriations and embezzlement by management. Pakistan Railways lost 830 million rupees because of the sale of scrap at throwaway rates; pilferage of equipment and fittings from rolling stock cost 151 million rupees. There were five registered cases of theft of material valued at 59 million rupees. Injudicious evaluation of tenders caused a loss of 558 million rupees. Scrap with an estimated value of 861 million rupees was awaiting disposal, depreciating every day.

The Public Accounts Committee of the National Assembly on Railways revealed that 198 locomotives were damaged due to the use of contaminated oil and the cost of one locomotive was $3 million to $4 million. The committee is investigating theft of radiators and diesel and the illegal allotment of 460 plots of land to 180 company officers.

Pakistan Railway has also curtailed its freight service, hurting the cross-border trade with Afghanistan, which earns potentially billions of rupees annually for the organization. The company is not able to allocate wagons for the Afghan transit trade, as it has run out of locomotives and fuel to take the transit goods to Quetta in southwestern Balochistan province or Peshawar in northwestern Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa province. **

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

We can’t run it , just freaken outsource it to them . Afterall whole world is oursourcing to india :chai:

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

Though judicial system under SC is very honest!!

You are not kidding. Who is more corrupt than police, customs, incometax, army etc. PR comes at the the bottom of corruption. Why not police, customs, incometax, army being closed? Do you know how much locomotive costs at present? One locomtove cost one billion ruppees. If you buy 150 defective locomotives, 150 billions loss incurred immidiately. The losses due to poor service and heavy maintenance are in billions, in addition to that. It is the policy decisions that make the difference. Do you think there is no corruption in Indian railways? You should do your homework and research properly before you jump to any conclusion.

Regarding using of used oil, the report is un-reliable and can not trusted. However for your information recycled used oil is being used all over the world that is not a new phenomenon. Talk to some railway person to enhance your limited knowledge on this highly technical subject.

Read the followng report.

The collapse of Pakistan Railways

**Former president Pervez Musharraf appointed General Javed Ashraf the railway minster, General Saeed the chairman and General Hamid Butt the general manager of manufacturing and services, all of whom had no prior experience in railways.

They imported from China ‘Group 1’ locomotives with axle load of 23 Tons per axle, although the limitation was 22 tons per axle. Similarly, orders were placed for ‘Group 3’ locomotives with loads of 19.3 tons – while the limitation was 17.5 tons per axle.

A special dispensation was issued by the Railways allowing their operation on sections where it could prove dangerous and this is still in force. This has led to numerous accidents and loss of precious lives.

Trials conducted on Chinese Group 3 locomotives revealed that while their fuel consumption was higher the hauling power was much less than the specifications listed jointly by the manufacturers. Their performance was worse than the existing 30 to 40 year old locomotives.

The 64 Chinese locomotives, based on vintage Russian technology, had an additional impact for spare parts procurement valued at $15 million annually, making them the most expensive locomotives ever procured by Railways. Earlier, the annual allocation for maintenance and repair would never exceed $10 million for the total fleet of 530 locomotives.

More recently, in 2009-2010, an additional order for 75 brand new locomotives has been placed with the same Chinese middleman Dong Feng Trading House (DFTH) and Mishan Locomotives Works, the manufacturer.

As if this was not enough, 200 passenger carriages at an exorbitant cost are also being procured, although the same could be manufactured by the factory in Islamabad with imported raw material.**

Please read these comments also.

Mir Tassadaq
Sep 20, 2010 - 2:34PM
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Can somebody explain why 3 corrupt generals, with absolutely no knowledge or experience in railways were allowed to go and order procurement of defective engines from China, which only led to several accidents and deaths of hundreds. It is not that China does not have the technology to manufacture good locomotives, but the fact that illwill and deceit of those assigned to procure engines resulted in this highly defective purchase. In the process the poor masses are suffering. Since these 3 thugs evaded any accountabilty and pocketed millions of dollars in kickbacks, it only encouraged the present government to order 75 more locomotives through the same middleman and from trhe same manufacturer, of ill-repute. This shows how institutionalised coruption is in Pakistan. Hundreds of thousands of prime real estate belonging to Pakistan Railways have been doled out to individuals for commercial use. One such example is the club located in Lahore on the previous Railway Golf Club to a party, which has minted billions in the process. All this railway land could have been auctioned to generate enough funds to overcome the operational losses and still have enough reserves for replacement of old locomotives. It is shocking that the Islamabad Carriage Factory is lying unutilized by this mafia, which has the backing of every government, be it elected or unelected.Recommend
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Aman
Sep 20, 2010 - 3:48PM
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it is really a pitty, Govt must contirbute its maximum to resolve the railway problemsRecommend
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Shumaila S Khanzada
Sep 20, 2010 - 8:53PM
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It is a pity that after so many years of independence we as a nation have not been able to develop an important infrastructure like railways..

It is unbelievable that there is no quality control department. The most surprising fact is that we have been spending money in the purchase of locomotives not in sync with our available axle load??? Wrong decisions not taken once but repeatedly, why? Is there no one to intervene and stop this? To me it appear that these decisions are being taken with the knowledge of all…

The money is being wasted for the purchase of passenger carriers when the same can be manufactured locally? How conveniently the money of poor nation is being wasted….

Our elected government has been openly blaming past government for all our sufferings today and promises to bring gradual change, my question is that do they intend to bring change by making the same mistakes on a much larger scale??? Why the order was given to the same manufacturers by this government? ??? The Government owe an explanation to the NATIONRecommend
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Cheema
Sep 20, 2010 - 9:58PM
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It is the tax payer that funds Pakistan Railway ,PIA and NLC, So why not put all these transport entities under the control of one roof, a Ministry for Transportation, so that an economic enlisting of goods for transportation is evolved. In any case politicians with absolutely no technical background should avoid getting involved in procurement of engineering products with specifications and limitations such as locomotives, airplanes, oil tankers and trucks. Railways should be kept running because it is an essential logistic, which is required for national security and economical transportation.Recommend
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Shakeel S Khanzada
Sep 20, 2010 - 10:52PM
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Is it really hard to believe that in the present regime of PPP government, a political party whose founder Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s admiration for technocrats is still appreciated among think tanks of all ages, one of the most technical organizations of Pakistan Railways like many others is being run by money makorats instead of technocrats? No obviously its not, as it has become more of a competition than a norm for our rulers and governments to “Kaam Bachao Paise Banao”. Such a mind set of our so called leaders if not refuted at this stage then a day is not far away when the fate of entire Pakistan will not be much different than that of Pakistan Railways, and all its natural resources would either remain unutilized like Islamabad Carriage Factory or would vanish in a corrupt deal like above mentioned locomotives procurement deal.Recommend
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mariam tauqeer
Sep 21, 2010 - 10:10AM
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a very good article. its about time that the government pays heed to the railways as well!Recommend
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mariam tauqeer
Sep 21, 2010 - 10:22AM
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a very good article, its about time the government pays heed to the railways!!Recommend
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Ahad
Sep 21, 2010 - 1:23PM
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Railways suffers not because of lack of passengers or freight, but corruption at the top, especially during the last ten years, in procurement deals. One of the key robbers responsible during Mush era is sitting in the Senate alongwith the man who is responsible for all the ills during past 2 years. The issue is why is the government sitting idle while the state and its exchequer is being plundered. The NLC is another factor. If only the freight was carried by rail, the 11,000 ISAF containers supposed to be for NATO could never have disappeared. It is the poor people of Pakistan, who have been robbed of their transport, while those who robbed it are either living comfortably in Europe, USA, Gulf and Canada or their ill-gotten assets are located there. If the government has the political will than they can catch them just as Hamesh Khan has been caught.Recommend
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Mureed Abbas Bhutta
Sep 22, 2010 - 11:27AM
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Much informative and a road map for restoration of “Public Transport” Rail.Recommend
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azher
Sep 26, 2010 - 10:48AM
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solution to all these problems is apointments on merit.if gov’t have appointed the chairmen’s of karachi stealmill,railway,PIA on merit instead of these foolish generals,these problems have never been occoured. untill and unless govt will not apoint charted accountants on these key positions these departments will never perform.For these key posts govt should call world wide resume and peoples should be apointed on merit. feasibilities should be made for future restructuring of these departments from international economic firms. slowly railway should be privatized.workers should be given golden hakehand.this will be only one time expense. if the same railway should be sold to privat owner with in 6 months he will start making money,it means railway is profit making department rather loss making. Motorway police, NADRA and passport office is run by good governce (Transparancy International report2009), these are all pakistani peoples then why other departments can not run likewise.

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

What a ‘nirala’ response. I am sorry to say that poking in every affair is not your cup of tea. Learn and then write. Otherwise this nonsense, no one is going to believe you. You are just making fun of yourself of being higly ignorant.

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

yes they are. They are very much suitable for Pakisan's environment as Pakistan was once part of India. And please don't underestimate India. India is far far advance than Pakistan now. For your information once upon a time ALU18 was caught from Indian border in 1965 war, it ran thoushands of frieght frieght trains in Pakistan:), so quality is not a problem. Morevoer ALCO was and perhaps still manufactured by Indians under ALCO American license for many years. This locomitive technology is still the best and suitable for PR as all maintenance facilities and staff are well trainded on these kinds of locomotives.

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

The article that you have posted is dated September 2010 (this was what the government wanted to portray), Public accounts committee came to the following conclusion in July 2011.

[FONT=Georgia, ‘Times New Roman’, Times, serif]PAC finds massive irregularities in Pak Railways

LAHORE: the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) of the National Assembly on Railways has found massive irregularities in Pakistan Railways, Geo News reported.

This was disclosed in a meeting presided over by Chairman PAC Sardar Ayyaz Sadiq at Railway Headquarters on Saturday.

**In a briefing after the meeting, Sardar Ayyaz Sadiq, told the media that five issues were discussed in the meeting and directions were issued to officers concerned.

He said that a two-member committee which was probing the issue of contaminated oil in locomotives told a meeting of the Standing Committee of the National Assembly that 198 locomotives were damaged due to the usage of used oil and the cost of one locomotive was more that $3 to 4 million.**

He said the committees had directed the PR administration to fix responsibility and present a comprehensive report in the next meeting.

The Chairman said that another issue which was discussed in the meeting was the theft of radiators and a team of Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) told the meeting that two radiators had been traced in Peshawar and accused would soon be arrested.

He said that the FIA was directed to submit a detailed report after one month on the theft of radiators.

Ayyaz said that theft of diesel was also discussed and Railway Police informed the committees that it had traced almost all accused and they would soon be arrested.

Discussing the constitution of Railway Board, he said that all decisions that were taken by the PR Executive Committee were illegal and several cases were pending due to the unavailability of the board, adding that law ministry was directed to take up the case.

Regarding illegal allotment of 460 plots to 180 Railway Officers, MNA Yasmeen Rehman told the media that a committee was formed to probe the issue which told the meeting that only 100 officers responded to it but the committee was not satisfied with their answers.

She said that plots had been sold to other people and it was directed to the committee to decide what rate should be fixed and how to recover the price of the plots from owners.

To a question, Ayyaz Sadiq said that National Accountability Bureau was working but cases were not registering due to the vacant post of its chairman.

Nadeem Afzal Chan, MNA, Begum Shahnawaz Sheikh, MNA, Mrs Asiya Nasir MNA, Javaid Iqbal, Chairman PR, Saeed Akhtar, PR General Manager (Operations), Ibne Hussain, PR Police Inspector General, were also present. Officers of SNGPL and NAB also attended the meeting. (Geo Urdu/APP)
](UN Security Council to inspect ‘Iranian-made’ missile debris)

Re: Pakistan likely to import railway engines from India

One of my colleagues in a company was a very lazy guy who used to take 2 or 3 vacations every week. (Imagine that!). He was a quality inspector. I don't think he even had any associate degree.
Finally he was laid off from the company. Then he came back to the company for some reason, and he told me that he got a job as "Engineer" in Pakistan Railways. He was preparing to go to Lahore for training.
He may have just been boasting to get the job as Engineer, but even if he was going for some smaller job, I would shocked to see how a loser like him could get a job in Pakistan Railways.

This is just one personal example of the kind of people this institute had accumulated. After seeing him go to Railways, I am not surprised at all to see Railways going bankrupt due to incompetence and corruption.