Now before people start abusing Asghar Khan (ex-Air force Commander in Chief) or start calling him a traitor, I have heard the same from my elders as well
Bitter Truth !!
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Even 1971 when india directly attacked E. Pak beginning from November of that year? I am not even counting the agartala and mukti bahini stuff here, though we probably should...
PS Isn't he the same guy who was telephoning the indian air chief to don't worry about PAF or was it giving their general plans to them? At best, he is a little effed up in the head like AQ khan and at worst, he would be a traitor.
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
More drama by some idiot looking for media acclaim. He may be an Air Force whatever. He is lousy on history.
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Now before people start abusing Asghar Khan (ex-Air force Commander in Chief) or start calling him a traitor, I have heard the same from my elders as well
Bitter Truth !! [/video]
My father fought 48 Kashmir war , It was our foolish adventure . We entered in J&K behind a Qabaili Lashkar , reached upto Srinagar , (Power House) and came back leaving them alone
65 , we started foolish Operation Gebralter , summer of 65 , Later we crossed the LoC on !st September and conquered Chhamb Jurian and we were going forward , than India attacked Lahore on 6th and later Sialkot . The war spread whole WP border .
71 story was quite different , India entered jn EP along with Mukti Bahni , When the occupied Jaisur and some other place , We tried at west border but .........
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
I am not a big fan of jihad as in taking up arms for whatever reason. If we must do jihad it should be against the growing intolerance, backwardness and corrupt attitudes in our society or against poverty and illiteracy etc.
In an ideal world Kashmir (both Azad and Jammu) should be a free country but that seems impossible because of India's intransigence and 'ana' and Pakistani establishment's own intransigent attitude (it is a political game as well because otherwise they will lose relevance. How-else can the army justify swallowing billions of US$ per year..) We do not feed a large army so they can waste our money on "developing world class housing societies in Gujranwala, Bahawalpur and Multan...." Army should work within its constitutional ambit. Besides in no other country in the world will you find national army running parallel business projects such as defence housing schemes!!! (quoting Kakaballi above)
Commonsense dictates that Pakistan cannot win Kashmir by force. India is a huge country with a big army. IMO both countries should just declare the line of control as the permanent border. Instead of buying weapons same money should be spent on human development: alleviating poverty, providing better health care and educating the masses in both countries.
The best we can expect from India (and I know it is a big ask) is that they treat the Kashmiris with humanity and dignity. Just like Israel is a reality (no matter how much some people foolishly deny it) and the best we can hope from them is to respect the Palestinian autonomy (in whatever small piece of land they have) and treat pilgrims to Al Aqsa mosque with humanity and respect. Palestinians for their part should focus on providing good governance in the land they have now rather than simply being obsessed with getting more and more land. The rest of the world might start listening to the Palestinians & paying more attention to their cause then.
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
I am not a big fan of jihad as in taking up arms for whatever reason. If we must do jihad it should be against the growing intolerance, backwardness and corrupt attitudes in our society or against poverty and illiteracy etc.
In an ideal world Kashmir (both Azad and Jammu) should be a free country but that seems impossible because of India's intransigence and 'ana' and Pakistani establishment's own intransigent attitude (it is a political game as well because otherwise they will lose relevance). We do not feed a large army so they can waste our money on "developing world class housing societies in Gujranwala, Bahawalpur and Multan...." Army should work within its constitutional ambit. Besides in no other country in the world will you find national army running parallel business projects such as defence housing schemes!!! (quoting Kakaballi above)
Commonsense dictates that Pakistan cannot win Kashmir by force. India is a huge country with a big army. IMO both countries should just declare the line of control as the permanent border. Instead of buying weapons same money should be spent on human development: alleviating poverty, providing better health care and educating the masses in both countries.
The best we can expect from India (and I know it is a big ask) is that they treat the Kashmiris with humanity and dignity. Just like Israel is a reality (no matter how much some people might foolishly deny it) and the best we can hope from them is to respect the Palestinian autonomy (in whatever small piece of land they have) and treat pilgrims to Al Aqsa mosque with humanity and respect. Palestinians for their part should focus on providing good governance in the land they have now rather than simply being obsessed with getting more and more land. The rest of the world might start listening to the Palestinians & paying more attention to their cause then.
Hari Singh didn't decide to join India till that day when my father conquered Srinagar Power House , (My father was an ordinary JCO only)
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Even 1971 when india directly attacked E. Pak beginning from November of that year? I am not even counting the agartala and mukti bahini stuff here, though we probably should...
PS Isn't he the same guy who was telephoning the indian air chief to don't worry about PAF or was it giving their general plans to them? At best, he is a little effed up in the head like AQ khan and at worst, he would be a traitor.
In 1971, Yahya Khan declared war first against India when he addressed the nation on radio Pakistan, while fully drunk.
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Even 1971 when india directly attacked E. Pak beginning from November of that year? I am not even counting the agartala and mukti bahini stuff here, though we probably should...
PS Isn't he the same guy who was telephoning the indian air chief to don't worry about PAF or was it giving their general plans to them? At best, he is a little effed up in the head like AQ khan and at worst, he would be a traitor.
I would call it sanity or wisdom if the idea or intention was to avoid a full scale war (war serves nothing) and unnecessary bloodshed.
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
my grandfather fought 1965 war, need to ask him 
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
^^^
As far as I know (or learned), Asghar Khan is theoretically right but technically wrong (right if Kashmir is taken as non-disputed area, but wrong if we consider Kashmir as disputed area).
In 1948 (one cannot say that it was technically war between India and Pakistan, though theoretically it was), though it was Pakistan who initiated the war in Kashmir, it was not war against India (at least technically). Pakistan sent forces in shape of tribes who started capturing Kashmir, that at the time Pakistan did not considered as Indian land.
1965 war (it was war between India and Pakistan, that India started): Since Pakistan do not consider Kashmir part of India neither border in Kashmir is international border nor Kashmir is Indian land, any conflict that Pakistan (or India) starts in Kashmir, Pakistan never considered it as war against India. What I remember, it was 22 Aug 1965 when Pakistan forces crossed ceasefire line in Kashmir, and never considered that as attack on India or starting war against India.
Anyhow, India facing defeat in Kashmir attacked Pakistan international border on 6 Sept 1965, and that is the date Pakistan considered as war with India that India started, because India on that day crossed internationally recognised border between India and Pakistan.
In 1971 (if provocation is war than again technically 1971 war was started by India, though theoretically Pakistan started the war), India was openly helping revolt and Mukti Bahini fighting Pakistan forces in East Pakistan, and Pakistan believed that Indian forces were also fighting in East Pakistan along with Mukti Bahini. Pakistan wanted to reduce pressure in East Pakistan, and thus under pressure in East Pakistan, Pakistan started war against India from West Pakistan.
Pakistan do not consider any conflict in Kashmir as war with India. Even the border between Indian occupied Kashmir and Pakistani held Kashmir is not considered as border or international border, but it is considered as 'line of control' (since Bhutto-Indra Shimla talk) and before Shimla, it was called cease-fire line.
1999 'Kargil war' that followed 1984 'Siachin war' (one cannot blame India or Pakistan for starting any war, though one can say that India violated 1984 'line of control' agreement and once violation is done by India without any correction, Pakistan violation on 'line of control' cannot be considered as violation):
Before Shimla (Bhutto and Indra talk), Siachin and Kargil was under Pakistan control. With Kargil under Pakistan control, it was impossible for India to take Siachin from Pakistan or fight with China east of Kargil.
In Shimla, Bhutto gave Kargil to India (on table) and changed the name of 'cease-fire line' in Kashmir to 'line of control'. Understanding was given that both countries would not cross line of control.
Since it gets too cold for human to stay at Siachin (as well at Kargil) during winter, Pakistan forces started leaving their position on Siachin, expecting to return back after winter, relying on agreement that India would not cross line of control at Siachin.
Unfortunately, in 1984, India took advantage of that absence and captured Siachin. It was stab at the back by India. Zia ignored that violation of Shimla agreement by India. Result is that, India holds a large part of Siachin today.
In 1999, Pakistan did the same. When India abandoned Kargil they took it (same what India did in Siachin). With Kargil, Pakistan got control of Indian army access to any place east of Kargil, and it was expected that in winter, Pakistan could have taken Siachin too. India made lot of hue and cry, resulting in America asking Pakistan to leave Kargil and Nawaz Shareef fearful of his master USA and obeying his master's command, ordered Pakistan army to retreat from Kargil. Resulting in India getting most of Kargil back (except few peaks).
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Not condoning what Pak army has been doing but the fact is most countries have their own biased version of history fed into the brains of their school children (& masses). We are no different.
Political history of the world should never be taken as hard truth or at face value. There are always distortions, biases and lies in there.
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Only if Pakistan's leaders were as astute as their bravely or rash decision making. Maybe they would have defeated India.
The best chance of capturing Kashmir would have been during Indo-Sino war of 1962. Were they sleeping? Idiots.
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Besides being a capable military man, Asghar Khan was a brilliant administrator as well. He was the man who turned around PIA’s fortunes in the 60s making it one of the best airlines in the world. So when he says something it cannot be dismissed as just plain silly.
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“After leaving air force, Asghar Khan was employed at the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and was appointed as the president of the national flag carriers, the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA).[SUP][5]](Asghar Khan - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][6]](Asghar Khan - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][7]](Asghar Khan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] There, Asghar Khan learned to fly the commercial airline and obtained a Commercial pilot licence after passing the exam from Federal Aviation Administration of the United States.[SUP][7]](Asghar Khan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Asghar Khan introduced new uniforms for the air hostesses and stewards which earned words of admiration at domestic and international airports.[SUP][8]](Asghar Khan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] During his tenure, PIA achieved lowest aircraft accident rate and highest net profit of Pakistan, and was a formidable competitor in the world airline business.[SUP][9]](Asghar Khan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] His tenure as president is often reminded as “golden age of PIA”.[SUP][9]](Asghar Khan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Despite urging of the government to extend his tenure, Asghar Khan took retirement and left the MoD in order to start his political career in 1968”
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Asghar Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
This is from Wikipedia but there are many other sources to corroborate it:
“On the evening of 3 December Sunday, at about 5:40 pm,[SUP][50]](India–Pakistan war of 1971 - Wikipedia)[/SUP] the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) launched a pre-emptive strike on eleven airfields in north-western India, including Agra, which was 300 miles (480 km) from the border. At the time of this attack the Taj Mahalwas camouflaged with a forest of twigs and leaves and draped with burlap because its marble glowed like a white beacon in the moonlight.[SUP][51]](India–Pakistan war of 1971 - Wikipedia)”[/SUP]
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
That was drunk decision by dictator. Karachi faced hell from Indian bombers, and blackout was vanished after missile attack at dockyard oil storage tanks. Whole Karachi was lit for one week and dome of Mazar-e Quaid was shining like sun giving easy coordinates to Indian bombers who at will bombed Karachi like hell.
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Posters sharing U-tube must think that the people of Pakistan can not see that . A link can help them to use some alternate to reach .
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Is youtube not banned in Pakistan still?
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshall (r) Asghar Khan
Is youtube not banned in Pakistan still?
Yahan to aur bhi boht kuchh ban hay , Such bolo to utha kar bhi lay jatay hain .
Re: Pakistan initiated ALL wars against India: Air Marshal (r) Asghar Khan
Is this a new video?