Pakistan 'has' one of the highest proportions of female parliamentarians in the world

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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From the Oct 10 elections 8 female MNA’s were elected to the National Assembly from General seats. In the coming weeks another 60 female MNA’s will be elected on reserved seats, (chosen from party lists and apportioned on the share each party received in general seats) which will mean that there will be 68 female MNA’s out of a total of 342 MNA’s overall - thats 19.9%.

Additionally, 17 of the 100 seats in the Senate (to be elected next month) are reserved for women, and other women are likely to win on the general/technocrat seats. So we are likely to see a similar proportion (20%) of female parliamentarians in the Senate.

This would rank Pakistan No.38 of 123 countries in the world league table of female parliamentarians. We will be ahead of the UK (at 44), the USA (at 56), France (at 61), Italy (at 77), and India (at 84).

** Women in National Parliaments**](http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/classif.htm)

:k:

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THats a wonderful news, indeed. However, I will be glad to see these women parliamentarians do some good for the downtrodden women of PAkistan. Benazir was a women yet she failed to deliver any good for the benefit of women. Lets see whether these females would be able to assert themselves in the parliament. :)

Wonder whether MMA would accept this or will revoke this provision as well if they make the government.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lost soul: *

Wonder whether MMA would accept this or will revoke this provision as well if they make the government.
[/QUOTE]

They can't, because they would lose seats if they did . Of the 60 women's seats of the NA to be elected in the coming weeks they will be entitled to at least 11, plus upto 4 more in the Senate. I am sure they are not going to want to lose 15 crucial members in the national parliament. :)

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This is not the time to be overjoyed with such news... Lets hope these women use their influence and power to improve the lives of women in general in Pakistan... Then would be the time to celebrate...

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No one is celebrating Spock. These are positive news, and future looks bright, a journey always begins with a small first step. One should be optimistic after news like this.

Compare this data to that of India, which boasts to be the Worlds biggest democracy

India
Total seats in upper house: 543
Total women seats: 48

Total seats in lower house: 242
Total women seats: 22

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I agree MAlik that a journey begins with a small step but I would never compare our situation with the Indians or for that matter with any other country. I believe while women in the developing and underdeveloped world are facing host of unimaginable problems yet each country and its social setup is unique.

I would like to see these women as acting independently rather than supporting their clans, tribes or family seats or serving their own interests or their families interests. ITs a shame I must say that no one so far has been able to table a resolution or start a debate on honor killings which is indeed a pressing problem. I think it was Senator Iqbal Haidar who raised this issue once but he was snubbed by other members of the parliament and I believe it was during the Nawaz government. It is very ironic that Benazir being the primeminister and hailing from Sindh, exploiting the regional card, raising hue and cry on being a Primeminister from Larkana didn't do much about the karo kari issue.
India is a large country and whether we agree or not, like it or not but it is a democracy ( it is debatable , nodoubt) where matters are discussed in the parliament and debated. And for the rest of the world thats important.

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Go Pakistani Women :k:

Democracy :smiley:

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China at 31 and Pakistan will be on 38.

:k:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lost soul: *

I would like to see these women as acting independently rather than supporting their clans, tribes or family seats or serving their own interests or their families interests. ITs a shame I must say that no one so far has been able to table a resolution or start a debate on honor killings which is indeed a pressing problem. I think it was Senator Iqbal Haidar who raised this issue once but he was snubbed by other members of the parliament and I believe it was during the Nawaz government. It is very ironic that Benazir being the primeminister and hailing from Sindh, exploiting the regional card, raising hue and cry on being a Primeminister from Larkana didn't do much about the karo kari issue.
[/QUOTE]

Benazir Bhutto was Prime Minister twice, but she did little for women. Her party's manifesto only ever promised warm words for women's development, but no real policies. She promised to restore 20 seats for women in parliament, but never did, even though the opposition supported this measure. Apart from opening a few women's police stations, and make her mother a senior minister in her government thats all she did for Pakistani women. Nawaz Sharif also promised development opportunities for women's development, but it was during his tenure that the Senate shamefully refused to declare "honour killings" a crime i.e. murder.

Yet for all the faults that the PPP Benazir and PML Nawaz may find with Musharraf's tenure they cannot doubt his sincerity to developing the cause of Pakistani women. Even with the Mullahs and the tribals ever venemous against him, he publicly declared that "The government of Pakistan vigorously condemns the practice of so-called honour killings," Musharraf declared. "Such acts do not find a place in our religion or law. Killing in the name of honour is murder, and it will be treated as such." So his was the first government in Pakistan to officially make this sick practice, punishable as a crime, for what it is. Recently it was his government that took firm and decisive action against the whole of that 'Panchayat' council that ordered the horrible gang rape of that woman. We heard little from the Mulllahs, feudals and established political big wigs on that matter?

President Musharraf has appointed a record number of women to his government, and ensured that all local governments now have 1/3 women's representation. Now we will have 20% of our national parliementarians who are women, and who will play a leading role in the governanace of the country. More women, means more voices for women. Voices that others will have to take into account if they want to hang onto their slim parliamentary majorities, and win votes to be re-elected. The women of Pakistan are now one of the largest political voices in Pakistan, and I am confident that they will start taking on the feudal, tribal and social barriers/evils that keep some of them backward or oppressed.

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Using “has” instead of “elected” in the thread title is a very telling story. Only 2.3% were actually elected. The rest are due to quotas, hardly a “democratic” process.

Even the seats that aren’t filled by quotas are in question because as described by the Human Rights Organization, the Entire Election Process was “Deeply Flawed”

Whoever wields the power in Pakistan will have its work cut out for it protecting women’s rights, particularly with the power gained by the extremists. As Amnesty International puts it:

"For years, women in Pakistan have been severely disadvantaged and discriminated against. They have been denied the enjoyment of a whole range of rights - economic, social, civil and political rights and often deprivation in one of these areas has entailed discrimination in another. Women who have been denied social rights including the right to education are also often denied the right to decide in matters relating to their marriage and divorce, are more easily abused in the family and community and are more likely to be deprived of the right to legal redress. Often abuses are compounded; poor girls and women are trafficked and subject to forced marriage, forced prostitution or exploitative work situations such as bonded labour. In all of these situations they are likely to be mentally, physically and sexually abused, again without having the wherewithal to obtain justice.
http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/recent/ASA330062002?OpenDocument

Hopefully these women (however they got into power) will speak loudly and be heard and affect positive change in Pakistan. I fear, however, that the power gained by the Islamists will far outweigh any influence these women may have.

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sounds good on paper. the catch being pakistan hasnt had parliament called even once yet since the 1999 coup! once pak has a functional parliament, it would certainly be interesting to see if the women parliamentarians influence law-making (i wonder what the MMA things of their being in the parliament among namehrams).

also, it would be interesting to see what the background of these 38 women are. if they are wifes and daughters of the usual suspects, poof.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Seminole: *
Using "has" instead of "elected" in the thread title is a very telling story. Only **2.3%* were actually elected. The rest are due to quotas, hardly a "democratic" process.
[/quote]

You got source of 2.3%?

We, Pakistanis know these Human Rights group support ARD blah blah.

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.. The purpose of this thread like may others in past is Benazir bashing! For all Benazir haters twice elected PM would certainly had won easily this time too but some one feared peoples will ... BB did gave courage and encouragement to millions of Pakistani woman but some would never be satisfied as their views are tarnished with hate and venom! Quite rightly BB once said its extremely hard for any Pakistani woman to step out of her house for work!

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In the coming weeks another 60 female MNA's will be elected on reserved seats, (chosen from party lists and apportioned on the share each party received in general seats) which will mean that there will be 68 female MNA's out of a total of 342 MNA's overall - thats 19.9%.
Sorry, this is a really stupid-stupid question, but who will elect those 60 female MNA's? Is it going to be an open, public election? Sorry, just asking because all senators in Canada are appointed by the Governor-General on the advice and consultation of the PM, which renders manifest conflicts if the Senator ever wishes to oppose a federal policy of the PM. (i know this is a TOTALLY different analogy :D hehe the only slightly reasonable one i could come up with at the moment).

Pakistan's proportion of female parliamentarians is increasing under Musharraf's reign. Overall, the General has done more for the betterment of women than otherwise. Litmus test will be, as Lost Soul has already stated, how these women utilize their positions. First thing that has to go, that should have already been thrown out of Pakistan's judicial mandates, is the Hudood Ordinance. i am glad to read Musharraf's statements regarding his opposition to so-called "honour killings", but he - as well as the increasing number of female politicians in Pakistan - have to cease the practice of locking up the female victims, rather than the culprits, of "honour killings" in jail. This has happened in front of my eyes, and it is happening as we speak. General has done much that is positive, he has been far far better (IMHO) than 99% of the democratically-elected crooks and "Mr. 10 Percents" we had got in our history; perhaps that is why we also expect Musharraf to go further.

It's not merely enough to reserve quotas for females in the government. Female staff members of NGOs that advocate womens' rights go to a police station to file a formal complaint on the behalf of an acid or dowry victim - and they are constantly met with stares, harassment, sick comments, and intimidation by both junior and senior members of the police force. This is just one aspect, out of a massive domain, that Musharraf and the female parliamentarians must tackle if Pakistan's proportion of female parlmns. is to mean anything substantial. If Musharraf is able to stay away from becoming power-hungry and greedy, then i truly hope he sticks around for a few more years and implements REAL reforms for the betterment of women. Reserving women's quotas is one positive step, but IMHO it MUST be taken in accordance with other more active policies.

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Originally posted by Seminole:

[quote]
Using "has" instead of "elected" in the thread title is a very telling story.
[/quote]

No, wrong as usual. If you knew the basics about Pakistani politics you would understand, but alas not. Not all of the members of the National Assembly and Senate have yet been elected; they will be in the coming days and weeks. Hence the careful use of the term “has”. :)

[quote]
Only 2.3% were actually elected. The rest are due to quotas, hardly a "democratic" process.
[/quote]

Wrong again. The 60 women seats will be indirectly elected on the basis of party lists, and in proportion to what each party received in the general seats. Just as exactly half the German Lower House (Bundestag) is chosen from party lists, on the basis of what each party receives in general votes. Now no one can call the German system undemocratic can they? If you knew anything about other countries, and the various ways they elect their parliamentarians and legislatures you would know that. But alas again you know little about the world, a common trait in those United States, where “one person, one vote” does not quite apply.

[quote]
Even the seats that aren't filled by quotas are in question because as described by the Human Rights Organization, the Entire Election Process was "Deeply Flawed"
[/quote]

If you are going to try to counter someone, at least don’t provide misleading facts. The report you linked was written on 9 October – before the elections, and talks about Musharraf’s referendum, and constitutional changes, not the actual elections, let alone the women’s seats. As it is even your own government has declared the elections to be conducted freely and fairly – unless you are now going to call your government liars as well? Next time get some truthful and relevant links to back up your “argument”.

[quote]
Whoever wields the power in Pakistan will have its work cut out for it protecting women's rights, particularly with the power gained by the extremists.
[/quote]

Maybe, but those so-called “extremists” will have 15 women parliamentarians in the national parliament as well, and women representing the other parties will outnumber the numerical strength of the males of those “extremist” parties by a long shot. Did you know that?

[quote]
As Amnesty International puts it:
[/quote]

I don’t deny the facts stated in the AI report, and that is what this thread is here to discuss i.e. the plight of Pakistani women, and their political empowerment to such unprecedented levels. Just like I am sure you will not deny similar AI or Human Rights reports that document the barbaric treatment of women in American prisons? But that is for another discussion.

[quote]
Hopefully these women (however they got into power) will speak loudly and be heard and affect positive change in Pakistan. I fear, however, that the power gained by the Islamists will far outweigh any influence these women may have.
[/quote]

As stated previously that the numerical strength of women at all levels of government in Pakistan outstrips the numerical strength of the so-called “extremist” parties. At the local level women now occupy 1/3 of the seats in the District assemblies, and at the national and provincial levels they will have around 20% of the seats. Once the election process is complete we will have at least 85 women sitting in the national parliament, another 128 women at least sitting in the four provincial assemblies, and hundreds if not thousands sitting in the elected local bodies.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *

Sorry, this is a really stupid-stupid question, but who will elect those 60 female MNA's?
[/quote]

According to the new constitution, there are more than 60 seats reserved for women.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
**Sorry, this is a really stupid-stupid question, but who will elect those 60 female MNA's? Is it going to be an open, public election? Sorry, just asking because all senators in Canada are appointed by the Governor-General on the advice and consultation of the PM, which renders manifest conflicts if the Senator ever wishes to oppose a federal policy of the PM.*
[/QUOTE]

The 60 women's seats in the National Assembly will not be appointed by the government or the President. They will be elected by proportional representation of political parties (women's) lists of candidates, on the basis of the total number of seats won by each party in the general seats. This is how half the German Bundestag is elected as I mentioned previously. So for instance the MMA will get about 11 women's seats, on the basis of their tally on the general seats. From what I understand they may even end up being allotted upto 2 of the 10 minority (non-Muslim) reserved seats. :)

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Now that almost all the seats have been declared for the National Assembly, it seems that there is a higher number of women than earlier. 13 women were elected on the General Seats, 60 more were elected on the reserved women seats, and 1 was elected on the reserved non-Muslim seats. That makes a total of 74 female MNA’s in the National Assembly - thats almost 21.8% of all MNA’s. That puts Pakistan at joint No.32 with China. :slight_smile: in the league table of female parliamentarians in the world.

:k:

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Did women from under-previledged class also made to the house or only begmats of filthy rich and those who lost elections could only made to parliament?

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I seriously doubt that these "elected" women will makey any diff. whatsoever for average Pakistani woman. These women elected or selected are from very rich families, in many cases are wives and daughters of feduals who for one reason or the other were not elected, left due to new election laws, etc. So, most of these ladies MPs are out to look after interest of their family/friends or clan. Not for Pakistan or women of Pakistan.