Degas is this the same woman PM who didnt remove the Hudood laws? Some supporter of woman rights she is. Twice in as PM. Nothing was changed or revoked as well.
very true shamraz, just like the political parties they do politics as a hobbie because they are so rich and have nothing else to do. it is just a few parties where they have come from not so good backgrounds, which is good as they can relate to the problems of the people, unlike the rich class who really look for their own benefits. as for women being in parliment that is good, but not more than that, as to leading the country, like benazir. why is there this obsession in the west about women in islam? they everytime say women look at them how they are treated, well who were the first people to give rights to women, it was muslims. and it was the ignorant people who decided to change these rights and follow the kafirs. women are the queen of the house, they are the mothers of the believers and they should be respected. but still there is a limit to what man and woman can do. a woman cannot lead men. that is just fitrah of human nature. a woman can lead a woman.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Degas is this the same woman PM who didnt remove the Hudood laws? Some supporter of woman rights she is. Twice in as PM. Nothing was changed or revoked as well.
[/QUOTE]
.. if she had done that outrightly she would had been labelled again by likes like u as Kafir, aniti-Islam, anti-muslim, traitor and what else!! its very hard to convince if the base of someones judgement is hatred.. instead of abolishing hadood ordinances better would be to provide a fair social justice system so that no innnocent is punished unfairly by hadood .. and only legitmate cases can be turned to hadd..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Twice in as PM. Nothing was changed or revoked as well.
[/QUOTE]
Very true.
- How many women did Benazir appoint to her cabinet? Only one - her mother.
Musharraf has appointed at least three - Zubeda Jalal, Attiya Inayatullah and Shahida Jamil, and others appointed in provincial governments.
- Did Benazir fulfill her repeated election promises to restore 20 reserved seats fro women in the National Assembly? No.
Musharraf has trebled that number to 60, and actually fulfilled his promise as we have seen in the last few days.
- Did Benazir condemn "honour killings" ands Karo kiri as murderous crimes which they are? No, becuase she was beholden to the feudals who allowed such parctices to occur.
Musharraf has publicly stated that such crimes are murder, and will be punishable as a crime.
Such facts speak for themselves, as to what little or nothing BB did for women, let alone for the rest of Pakistan.
mallik most of thesee women are relatives of male politicians
and they are are going to listen to them in matters relatted to women's issues not the other way around.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shamraz Khan: *
I seriously doubt that these "elected" women will makey any diff.
[/quote]
Thank you!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
mallik most of thesee women are relatives of male politicians
and they are are going to listen to them in matters relatted to women's issues not the other way around.
[/QUOTE]
Not most, but some. Dynastic families exist in many countries to various degrees e.g. throughout the whole of South Asia, western Europe and even the USA. That has not stopped many countries in those regions moving forward. At the end of the day it is how these record numbers of women members will effect change is what we have to watch. Let's give them a chance, and see how they effect Pakistani politics and society in the coming years. We cannot really judge them when they have not even been given a chance.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Very true.
- How many women did Benazir appoint to her cabinet? Only one - her mother.
Musharraf has appointed at least three - Zubeda Jalal, Attiya Inayatullah and Shahida Jamil, and others appointed in provincial governments.
- Did Benazir fulfill her repeated election promises to restore 20 reserved seats fro women in the National Assembly? No.
Musharraf has trebled that number to 60, and actually fulfilled his promise as we have seen in the last few days.
- Did Benazir condemn "honour killings" ands Karo kiri as murderous crimes which they are? No, becuase she was beholden to the feudals who allowed such parctices to occur.
Musharraf has publicly stated that such crimes are murder, and will be punishable as a crime.
Such facts speak for themselves, as to what little or nothing BB did for women, let alone for the rest of Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
You got it nailed!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Very true.
- How many women did Benazir appoint to her cabinet? Only one - her mother.
Musharraf has appointed at least three - Zubeda Jalal, Attiya Inayatullah and Shahida Jamil, and others appointed in provincial governments.
- Did Benazir fulfill her repeated election promises to restore 20 reserved seats fro women in the National Assembly? No.
Musharraf has trebled that number to 60, and actually fulfilled his promise as we have seen in the last few days.
- Did Benazir condemn "honour killings" ands Karo kiri as murderous crimes which they are? No, becuase she was beholden to the feudals who allowed such parctices to occur.
Musharraf has publicly stated that such crimes are murder, and will be punishable as a crime.
Such facts speak for themselves, as to what little or nothing BB did for women, let alone for the rest of Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
Malik here as usual tried to mis-state facts. Benazir isactually the only
person in history of Paksitan to stood against honor killings when the issue got hot in NWFP..In fact Pakistan's upper house, the Senate, rejected a resolution that would have outlawed the practice of "honor killing" The resolution was proposed by the main opposition party, former prime minister Benazir Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party in 1999, but was blocked by members of the governing Pakistan Muslim League from the conservative and largely tribal region of the northwest frontier.
We can never compare dictators with politicians.. so compare Musharaf with Zia or Ayub!
Even when in power, the PPP had to fight against the establishment: landowners, religious leaders and above all, the bureaucracy while military dictaor Musharaf had guns pointed to the heads of Pakistani people!
Benazir has been an inspiration to women of paksitan when she stood firm like a rock against the house-arrest and all other intimidation by the Pakistani dictator Zia-ul-Haq. The dictator continued to postpone free elections throughout his lifetime out of fear that the Peoples Party may come into power. But his fears came true when first elections were held in Pakistan after his death.
It should be a matter of shame for all those who believe in the emergence of benevolent dictators to solve their problems, that the strong resolve of a weak woman dismantled the mighty power of a military regime, which unnecessarily intruded to manage civil affairs.
Benazir can fight anything but she cant change the views those hate her.. so whatever she can do some people will find faults in her.. but a simple messgae for those is PPP still got highest number of votes in this election too while Government lotas while minipulated more seats could not win hearts of people of paksitan.. majority still trust Benazir!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
Benazir isactually the only person in history of Paksitan to stood against honor killings when the issue got hot in NWFP..!
[/QUOTE]
Wrong, did Benazir's two governments ever bring forward any resolutions to the National Assembly? Note she was Prime Minister from 1988 to 1990, and 1993 to 1996. Lets see some proof from you that she brought any parliamentary resolution forward to condemn or take actions against "honour" killings? Did she make any similar condemnations of "karo kiri" carried out in her home province? Not that I know of - but lets see your proof? The rest of what you have posted is your typical die-hard BB mantra, but I would like to hear some answers to my other questions?
How many women did BB appoint to her governments, apart from her mother?
Why did she not fulfill her repeated promises to restore 20 reserved seats for women in the National Assembly, when even the opposition supported her on this measure? Care to explain?
The fact that you cannot counter the far better record of the Musharraf government on promoting women's rights in just three years than BB did in nearly six years, amply proves my points, but I will contiune to challenge your empty rhetoric with facts.
P.S. If military dictators are so bad, then why did BB support Musharraf's military coup that overthrew Nawaz's government? Why did she sing the praises of "her general". Where was her commitment to the constitution and democracy then? Care to explain this little matter, as well? :)
Malik's all posts seems to have one motive.. venom against Benazir! This honor killing issue was at high pitch in 1999 when Benazir was in opposition!
On August 2, 1999 the Upper House of the Pakistani Parliament rejected a resolution that would have condemned the practice of killing women in the name of family honor. After several weeks of pressure from human rights activists including Asma Jahangir, Chairwoman of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan and UN Special Rapporteur on Extrajudicial, Arbitrary and Summary Executions, *the Pakistan People’s Party introduced the resolution in the Senate the north-west frontier to avoid a forced marriage was shot down by a hired killer in the office of a human rights activist. *
People's Party senator, Iqbal Haider, who had drawn up the resolution,
later described it as a sad day for democracy in the country.
He said in order to win the support of some tribal leaders, the governing
Pakistan Muslim League had endorsed one of the most reprehensible customs - killing women in the name of honour.
Though the military government of Gen. Pervez Musharraf has criticized honor killing. But nothing has so far been done -- no changes to the legal system, judicial system or police system to discourage the honor killings. Police also sympathize with the culprits and at times are even reluctant to arrest them.
Has PT posted anything more than 3 lines? And without a smilie. Last post first. Degas it was high on her agenda in 1999. Why wasnt it there before? She is a woman. She could see what is wrong with the hudood laws. Yet she choose not to do so. Because she would be labelled as anti-Islamic. So to ensure her political career and her chances to be PM again, she decided not to remove them. So much for Woman power.
[quote]
Even when in power, the PPP had to fight against the establishment: landowners, religious leaders and above all, the bureaucracy
[/quote]
That is her establishment. She plays to all of them. Include the people now in the kings party belonged to her party.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Degas: *
**This honor killing issue was at high pitch in 1999 when Benazir was in opposition!*
[/QUOTE]
Was it not at high pitch between 1988 to 1990 and 1993 to 1996, the period of Benazir's two governments? I repeat my earlier questions to you. What parliamentary resolutions did her government introduce in those periods, what measures did it take against "honour killings" during those two governments? And especially inportant did Benazir Bhutto's governments dare speak out "karo kiri" a similar evil practice carried out in her home province? I am not interested in what she said or did while in opposition to merely score a few points over the sitting government (and use women's issues as a political football), but what did she did during her two governments? Lets see a list of achievments if you have one?
How many women did she appoint to her government, apart from her mother?
Why did she not carry out her repeated promises to restore 20 reserved seats for women in the National Asseembly, even though the oppostion supported this measure?
Finally, aside from this topic but relevant as you keep condemning the military "dictators". Why did BB support Musharraf's military coup that overthrew Nawaz's government? Why did she sing the praises of "her general". Where was her commitment to the constitution and democracy then? Care to explain this little matter, as well?
P.S. I am glad in your last post you have conceded and started comparing this military governments far better record on women, to BB's "democratic" government. :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
Even when in power, the PPP had to fight against the establishment: landowners, religious leaders and above all, the bureaucracy while military dictaor Musharaf had guns pointed to the heads of Pakistani people!
[/QUOTE]
That must be the joke of the century! PPP had to fight against landowners when in power! Degas dear, since the times of Zulfiqar Bhutto upuntil present day the party in pakistan with THE HIGHEST percentage of lanowners as its members is none other than PPP!!
Bhuttos and Zardaris themselves are large landowners. So are a large mass ofthier members and PPP had to fight against them. Yeah right!
Figth FOR them more like against the pakistani people.
[QUOTE]
Benazir can fight anything but she cant change the views those hate her.. so whatever she can do some people will find faults in her..
[/QUOTE]
Yeah she can fight anything, anything that is BUT the leagl cases against her for her deeds during her governments. To avoid just those she has not dared to set foot in Pakistan for many years despite 10 thousand announcements of her "impending return" . :D
She doesn't dare to return to the country that she supposedly cares so much about as long as her party isn't part of its government. Yeah she can fight anything. :D
The new MMA women MNA’s have already started to speak out for change, and the government is encouraging all the elected women to stand up and be counted.
** MMA’s women MPs promise health, education reforms**](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_4-11-2002_pg7_19)
Minister seeks women’s support for eliminating tribal, informal courts](Daily Jang: Urdu News - Latest Breaking News update Pakistan - jang.com.pk)