PAKISTAN: Golden Pipeline Dream

[Pakistani_Tiger]

*Originally posted by bdsurti: *
Pakistani tiger Ji

India has, up to this moment, categorically refused to receive Gas from Turkmenistan if it is transported by Pipe Line via Pakistan. India does not need to join in the construction of the Pipe Line. The Pipe Line will be constructed by the Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Oil Majors, Banks, Trading Houses etc. etc. India only receives the gas and pays for it. Your reasoning for more transit fee for Pakistan does not hold good as the Pipe Line is to carry a certain amount of Gas. Whether that gas goes to India or is Exported from Gwadar as LNG does not make any difference to Pakistan in terms of Transit Fees. Pakistan is Guaranteed the Transit Fees if the Pipe Line Transports the given Quantity of Gas.

Now, my reason doesn’t hold good at all? :hehe: Surti, if two other countries replace India, you think Transit fee will remain same?

No. Pakistan will earn the full Transit Fee no matter whether the Gas goes to India or is exported as LNG from Gwadar.

Yeah, when did I say Pakistan wouldn’t earn full Transit Fee?

If Pakistan wants India to take the gas from a Pipe Line going through Pakistan then Pakistan has to request India to accept such Gas.

Who’s taking Gas from Turkmenistan? India or Pakistan? Where does this project starts from? Turkmenistan or Pakistan? Try again, Surti.

The Turkmenistan Pipe Line can carry a certain amount of Gas. Part of it will be used by Pakistan. The balance can either go to India or to Gwadar to be exported as LNG. In either case Pakistan will earn transit fees. To say that Pakistan will only earn Transit fees if the Gas goes to India only and not if it goes to Gwadar is wrong. Pakistan will earn transit fees whether that certain amount of Gas goes to India or is Exported from Gwadar in the form of LNG.

What certain amount of Gas you are taking about?

I hope you understand and agree to this statement. Thus in respect of the Turkmenistani Gas PAKISTAN DOES NOT NEED INDIA.

When did Pakistan say it needs India?

You are confused stating ’’ Pakistan will get $500 million dollar transit fee yearly from Iran-Pakistan-India Gas Pipeline; without India, $200 million’’. The Iranian Gas is from one or two of the blocs in the South Pars Field where there are, I think, two Indian partners with the Iranians i.e. ONGC and Reliance. So this gas from Iran is meant for India only. Thus if India agrees to the Iran-India Pipe Line via Pakistan then Pakistan earns at least USD 500 Million. If India does not agree then no pipe line will be constructed and as such Pakistan will earn Nothing.

If India doesn’t wanna be a part of it, there’s Afghanistan.

So either Pakistan gives the guarantees to India in respect of India’s concerns regarding Safety and Security of the Pipe Line or PAKISTAN IS GOING TO BLOW THE WHOLE AMOUNT OF USD 500 MILLION which Pakistan would earn if India accepts the Iranian Gas via a Pipe Line through Pakistan.

India’s concernn regarding Safety and Security? What are they my dear? You are again going back to MFN status issue, which I already stated Pakistan will never accept. You never told when Pakistan involved politics in Bilateralism issues. Care to give any example? Don’t duck it.

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnm24262.htm

India prefers to receive the gas from Iran in the Form of LNG or by a Deep Sea Pipe

.

Deep Sea route idea has been rejected.

When will you understand that India needs guarantees from Pakistan for the Safety and Security of the Pipe Line. You keep disregarding and skirting the issue.

Am I? LOL! Let me ask you: When will you understand that Politics shouldn’t be involved in bilateralism issues. How the hell Pakistan give guarantees to India? Using International Media? India is the one, who cut diplomatic ties. May Bhagwan help you.

Now Prime Minister Vajpayee and the ONGC/GAIL Officials have categorically stated that India will not agree to receiving gas via a pipe line going through Pakistan.

Good, then why are you wasting your time here, Surti?

Pakistan wants to earn Transit Fees. Pakistan will have to make the effort to convince India and Pakistan will have to go to India if they want India to receive the Turkmenistan or Iranian Gas via a Pipe Line through Pakistan.

That effort we have made alot, taking alot of initiatives; and you never wanna go into the depth of those details. Pakistan can’t convince India on the basis of MFN status. Neither using International Media. No Politics. No settlement of Kashmir using Gas Project at all.

India has to come on the table for dialouge, repair diplomatic ties, not Pakistan.

The choice is yours!

[Pakistani_Tiger]

*Originally posted by dhir: *
The last piece of BDSurti’s post is the bottom line of all future deals :
Pakistan wants to earn Transit Fees. Pakistan will have to make the effort to convince India and Pakistan will have to go to India if they want India to receive the Turkmenistan or Iranian Gas via a Pipe Line through Pakistan

Would India make an effort to come on the table of Dialouge? How the hell three countries suppose to sign agreement? Via Web Cam?
Let Pakistan know, when fever of Vajpayee comes down.

India will get its gas if not from here then from there or from somewhere, it is Pak that needs the transit fee.

Well, yeah India can get it from her Eastern Border, but you guys have to invest million dollars. In case of Iranian Pipeline, you don’t have to invest.

[bdsurti]

Pakistani Tiger Ji

The whole discussion is being muddled up with multiple issues and I shall make an effort to discuss issues one by one.

Let us start with the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan Pipe Line.

Let us say that Pakistan will earn as Transit Fees an amount of X for the Gas consumed in Pakistan and Y for the amount Transported to India.

IMO Pakistan will again earn as Transit Fees an amount of X for the Gas consumed in Pakistan and Y for the Gas transported to Gwadar for converting into LNG and then be Exported.

In this respect why is it that Pakistan wants India to accept the Turkmenistani Gas being transported by a Pipe Line through Pakistan?

We will take the Issue of the Iranian Gas Pipe Line later.

Have a Nice Day

[bdsurti]

*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Would India make an effort to come on the table of Dialouge? How the hell three countries suppose to sign agreement? Via Web Cam?
Let Pakistan know, when fever of Vajpayee comes down.

Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee will authorize the commencement of a Dialogue on the Pipe Line once Pakistan stops Cross Border Terrorism. This does not mean that the Pipe Line is a ‘’Done Deal’’. After stopping Cross Border Terrorism Pakistan will have to give India suitable guarantees to satisfy India’s concerns about the Safety and Security of the Pipe Line

Well, yeah India can get it from her Eastern Border, but you guys have to invest million dollars. In case of Iranian Pipeline, you don’t have to invest.

Aha Pakistani Tiger Ji – That is the Beauty of the Bangladeshi Gas. Like the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan Pipe Line or the Iran-Pakistan Pipe Line India does not have invest in the Pipe Line.

I think you have not been reading my posts. UNOCAL wants the Bangladeshi Government to sell the Gas to India as building a Pipe Line will cost only may be USD 200 to 300 Million. However, to build a Pipe Line to the Sea Port along with the Deep Sea Harbour + LNG Liquefaction Plant + LNG Loading Terminal will cost UNOCAL up to USD Two Billion. Bangladesh Government played coy games with India but since the Gas Strike off the East Coast of India with the prospects of more strikes both off the East and West Coast of India Bangladesh is caught in a bind. Bangladesh does not have the financial wherewithal to build the complete structure for Exporting its Gas in the form of LNG.

I trust I have clarified the situation

Good for India.

Have a Nice Day

[bdsurti]

Pakistani Tiger Ji

If Pakistan wants India to agree to accept Gas from a Pipe Line via Pakistan then I think Pakistan should hurry up and give India that India needs for the Security and Safety of the Pipe Line whether it is from Iran or Turkmenistan.

The following article describes the latest Gas find off Gujarat

Reliance finds gas off Gujarat

Reliance finds gas off Gujarat

Close on the heels of the discovery of 7 trillion cubic feet of gas reserves in deep waters of Krishna Godavari basin, Reliance Industries has struck significant oil and gas reserves in an exploration block off Gujarat.

Reliance struck hydrocarbons in the very first well it drilled in the GK-OSJ/1 block in shallow waters of Gulf of Cambay, senior company officials said in New Delhi.

No assessment of in-place reserves has been done as the reserves are yet to be tested, they said, adding the company would make an announcement on the find in a month’s time.

The block is one of the five blocks Reliance Industries acquired from Tullow Oil of UK for just over one million pound.

Sources, however, indicated that gas production from the new find could be close to one million standard cubic metres per day as per the initial assessment.

The block is close to the four hydrocarbon discoveries Scottish explorer Cairn Energy Plc had made, off which Lakshmi gas find has started commercial production. The remaining (Gauri, Ambe and Parvati) are in different phases of development.

Reliance Industries, in consortium with Canadian Niko Resources (RIL 90 per cent, Niko 10 per cent) had last year struck 7 trillion cubic feet of in-place reserves in KG-DWN/98/3 block in deep waters of KG Basin. It has estimated that the field could produce up to 40 million standard cubic metres per day in two and half years’ time.

The hydrocarbon finds augurs well with India’s quest for attaining oil security. The country is presently 70 per cent import dependent on crude oil and meets just half of the 120 million standard cubic metres per day gas demand.

Sources said Reliance had sought gas reserves in the sixth well it drilled in the KG block, whose testing too would be undertaken shortly.

Reliance would this month start drilling in the Mahanadi basin block, where the Government’s upstream nodal agency the directorate general of hydrocarbon has predicted the next big hydrocarbon find, they added.

Have a Nice Day

[Pakistani_Tiger]

BDsurti,

Now, you're telling me I'm not reading your post. You keep bringing up the question of Pakistan requesting India to join the project. I've said it eariler and I'm making myself clear again; that Pakistan doesn't need to request India. Neither it needs India whether it is Iranian Gas Pipeline or Afghanistan Gas Pipeline.

*Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee will authorize the commencement of a Dialogue on the Pipe Line once Pakistan stops Cross Border Terrorism. This does not mean that the Pipe Line is a ‘’Done Deal’’. After stopping Cross Border Terrorism Pakistan will have to give India suitable guarantees to satisfy India’s concerns about the Safety and Security of the Pipe Line *

Finally, you uttered what I wanted to hear. First of all, there ain't no Cross-Border Terrorism as Border b/w Pakistan and India from Kashmir, doesn't even officialy exists. Secondly, politics shouldn't be get involved in Bilateralism issue, like it did in Samjotha Express, Flight Service from Karachi-Mumbai and vice versa and recently postponed SARRC summit. Third, if India doesn't want Pipeline to be carried out from Pakistan's Territory, then good luck to India from her eastern border. Fourth, I didn't say it has been a done deal because there hasn't been agreement signed yet.

Got that? Good :)

[Pakistani_Tiger]

Hats off to Khatami :hula:

Iran urges India to back Pipeline

**Iranian President Mohammad Khatami has urged India to join in the construction of a multibillion-dollar pipeline that would bring Iranian gas to the subcontinent.

Mr Khatami told Indian business leaders in Delhi that the pipeline was ‘‘implementable’’ despite India’s fears about it crossing Pakistan.

The Pakistan question has hampered talks on the project since they began in 1994. **

Delhi would prefer an underwater pipeline to ease security concerns.

• **‘Perennial flow’ **

Those fears have been exacerbated in the past week with three separate attacks on Pakistani gas pipelines by feuding tribesmen.

The visiting Iranian president said the pipeline project would “play a very significant role in providing India with an inexpensive and perennial flow of energy”.

A 2,600-kilometre (1620-mile) land line would cost about $3.5 billion and the supplies would be a huge boost for energy-starved India.

Iran, which has the world’s second-largest gas reserves after Russia, also needs new markets.

Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee said after meeting Mr Khatami that **“Iran has gas and we want it”. But he added: **“There are some impediments in the middle.” ** :hehe:

Delhi has, however, agreed to send its petroleum minister to Tehran to try to work out a mutually satisfactory agreement.

• **Road links **

Energy has dominated Mr Khatami’s visit to India, where he was the chief guest at the country’s Republic Day celebrations on Sunday.

Recent tribal attacks have worsened security fears

Iran offered to sell more crude oil to India and invited Indian investment in the country’s energy sector.

Although, the pipeline issue remains unresolved, the two countries signed seven agreements covering co-operation in science and technology, culture and water management.

Iran also offered Indian goods a new transport corridor from the Iranian port of Chahbahar to the Afghan town of Delaram.

The move was part of an agreement on helping to rebuild Afghanistan.

[Pakistani_Tiger]

As PM Jamali is on tour of Gulf States, Pakistan-Qatar discuss ‘Gas Project’

Qatar Gas Project

KARACHI, Jan 29: **A three-member technical team from Pakistan would visit Crescent Petroleum in Sharjah to discuss technical activities of the Qatar Gas Project in light of the meeting of the Joint Coordination Committee (JCC) held in Doha from January 27-29. **

A Pakistani delegation comprising Managing Director of SSGC and Inter State Gas System Limited (ISGSL), Munawar B. Ahmed and Senior Joint Secretary, Petroleum Ministry, Manzoor Zubair had already attended the meeting of JCC in Doha. This was the first meeting, organized by the Government of Qatar in the office of Director Oil and Gas, Doha.

**The JCC was formed to facilitate and streamline accurate and timely flow of information between the parties involved in the import of gas from Qatar. **

According to SSGC spokesman, the committee deliberated on the status of Head of Terms (HoT), development and fiscal agreement, exclusive grant to Crescent Petroleum to export Qatari gas, dedication of gas reserves to the project etc.

**The project envisages 1,650 km, 44 inch diameter Qatar-Pakistan Gas Pipeline. It originates from Qatar’s north gas field and after traversing through the territories of transiting countries of UAE and Iran, would finally terminate near Sui in Balochistan. Almost the entire length of the pipeline would be laid sub sea in the shallow waters.

The pipeline will initially transport 1,600 mmcfd and ultimately 3,400 mmcfd of natural gas. The facilities include two compressor stations proposed at Diba and Jiwani. It is proposed that from Jiwani, Pakistan onwards, the pipeline will be laid onshore traversing through the Sindh and terminating at Sui in Balochistan. **

Crescent Petroleum representatives had met Secretary Petroleum in Islamabad on November 18, 2002 and later discussed the provisions of draft gas sales agreement with ISGSL executives in Karachi. As a follow up exercise, Crescent officials visited SSGC House on January 14 and exchanged views on the proposed pipeline route within Pakistan’s territories and the provisions of the draft.

[Pakistani_Tiger]

Turkmen, Afghan and Pakistani officials have agreed on Natural Gas Pipeline route, which has been under construction for nearly 2 decades.

Gas pipeline route fixed

ASHKHABAD, June 27: Turkmen, Afghan and Pakistani officials have agreed on a route for a new trans-Afghan natural gas pipeline that has been under discussion for nearly two decades, Turkmenistan’s state newspaper reported on Friday.

Following three days of meetings here, **the three countries’ ministers agreed the pipe should run from Turkmenistan’s Dauletabad gas fields to Quetta via Kandahar, Neutralny Turkmenistan wrote. **

The paper quoted a Pakistani official as saying that the project members had also been looking at a northern route through Kabul on to Peshawar, but considered it less convenient due to lack of necessary communications.

“The confirmation of the route is another significant step on the way to the realization of a large regional project,” said Afghan Deputy Minister for Industry and Mineral Resources Mir Mahfooz Nedai. The project had been put on hold because of the Afghan civil war and later the US-led war on the Taliban. - AFP