Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

These idiot generals should be tried for treason. They have no business in changing govt.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-pakistan-militarytre7bl0k8-20111222,0,740509.story
Michael Georgy Reuters

8:42 a.m. CST, December 22, 2011

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan’s powerful army is fed up with unpopular President Asif Ali Zardari and wants him out of office, but through legal means and without a repeat of the coups that are a hallmark of the country’s 64 years of independence, military sources said.

Tensions are rising between Pakistan’s civilian leaders and its generals over a memo that accused the army of plotting a coup after the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden in May.

“Who isn’t fed up with Zardari? It’s not just the opposition and the man on the street but people within the government too,” said one military source who asked not to be named.

“But there has to be a proper way. No action is being planned by the army. Even if we tried, it would be very unpopular and not just with the government and the opposition but most Pakistanis too.”

The Pakistani military spokesman declined comment.

General Ashfaq Kayani has pledged to keep the military out of Pakistani politics since taking over as army chief in 2007.

Any coup – Pakistan has had three since independence in 1947 – could further tarnish the military’s public image which has already taken a battering after the bin Laden operation, widely seen in Pakistan as a violation of sovereignty.

But the army remains the arbiter of power and analysts say it has plenty of ways to pressure Zardari to step down, especially if a link is established between him and the memo, which sought the Pentagon’s help in averting a feared coup.

Businessman Mansoor Ijaz, writing in a column in the Financial Times on October 10, said a senior Pakistani diplomat had asked that a memo be delivered to the Pentagon with a plea for U.S. help to stave off a military coup in the days after the raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in May.

Ijaz later identified the diplomat as Pakistan’s ambassador to Washington, Husain Haqqani, who denied involvement but resigned over the controversy. No evidence has emerged that the military was plotting a coup and the Pentagon at the time dismissed the memo as not credible.

Friction between Pakistan’s civilian government and military have bedeviled the nuclear-armed South Asian country for almost its entire existence, with the military ruling for more than half its 64-year history after a series of coups.

In the past the army has asked Pakistani civilian leaders to resign and influenced judicial proceedings against them.

Haqqani’s resignation was seen by many analysts as further weakening the civilian government, which is already beset by allegations of corruption and incompetence in the face of many challenges, including a weak economy and a Taliban insurgency.

MEMOGATE

Zardari returned to Pakistan this week from medical treatment in Dubai that raised speculation he would resign under pressure from the military over what has been dubbed “memogate.”

Although his position is largely ceremonial, he wields considerable influence as leader of the ruling party and his forced departure would be a humiliation for the civilian leadership and could throw the country into turmoil.

One of the military sources suggested that no direct action would be needed against the government because it had already made so many mistakes.

“If the government is digging its own grave, we are not going to look for spades,” the source said.

The military has reasserted itself after a November 26 NATO cross-border air attack killed 24 Pakistani soldiers and the memo has also given it political ammunition.

In a statement submitted to the Supreme Court, which is looking into a petition demanding an inquiry into who may have been behind the memo, Kayani said it was a serious matter which required an investigation.

“We want anyone involved, be they in government or elsewhere, to be punished. But it is not for us to do anything. If the army moves to do anything it would have national as well as international repercussions,” said another military source.

“So that is not likely. Anything that has to be done has to be done by the Supreme Court.”

Officials from Zardari’s ruling party have played down friction with the military and say they don’t fear a coup.

But they fear that some judges in the increasingly aggressive Supreme Court dislike Zardari and could move against him.

“I am not bothered about the army. I think they are acting very sensibly and would not derail the system at the moment,” a senior ruling party leader told Reuters.

“The worry probably would be what the Supreme Court does. They look in a mood to manipulate things.”

The government’s anxiety over memogate was highlighted in comments made by Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani on Thursday.

“Let me make clear to you today that there are intrigues, conspiracies afoot to pack up the elected government,” he said in a speech at the National Art Gallery.

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

Hasent the time come to punish the army too for the mistakes it has committed especially during the past 10 years? The government needs to be punished, but army also needs to be a part of the punishment as they are part of the problem.

[quote]
But they fear that some judges in the increasingly aggressive Supreme Court dislike Zardari and could move against him.

"I am not bothered about the army. I think they are acting very sensibly and would not derail the system at the moment," a senior ruling party leader told Reuters.

"The worry probably would be what the Supreme Court does. They look in a mood to manipulate things."
[/quote]

This image of judiciary would be dangerous for them, as they are being perceived as the judiciary which is upholding Punjab's dominance over the rest of the country.

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

Zardari should be in jail not in any political position i wouldn't even let him have a job as a cleaner.

the army if they want to jail him, kill him or kick him out the country no one will care just make sure all his stolen wealth is returned to the people of pakistan!

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

F... the Generals.

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

Zardari saved Pakistan when Benazir was killed. Sindhi people were very angry with what happened but Zardari and Bilawal talked about Pakistan the federation and how they believed in it and will work for it.

They could have very easily turned around and said that Pakistan is a Punjabi and Army dominated state with no place for other ethnicities. Sindh would not have been a part of Pakistan today if it had not been for him.

Waht would you do with Kayani, Pasha and the Crore-Commanders Javed saab?

“State within state not allowed”: Gilani hits out at army

There have always been speculations but it’s the first time that an elected PM has so bluntly accused army of being out of control. It looks to me now that:

  • PPP government is now hanging by a thread.

  • PPP government genuinely fears a coup. And Zardari might very well have written that memo to the American government to help save Pak government from army’s take-over and control.

  • Since army is not under control of the government (never has been), it shows once more that Pak’s foreign policy, especially against Afghanistan, is run by army and not by the parliament. So people like Imran accusing the government of obeying America is a lie. All decisions have actually have been army’s all along. For example, supporting extremists, creating Taliban, and then later giving up support to Afghan Taliban and help US invade Afghanistan. It’s army all along.

Gilani hits out at powerful army; expresses fears of ouster

ISLAMABAD, 22 DEC: Pakistan Premier Mr Yousuf Raza Gilani today in an unprecedented tongue-lashing against the powerful military said it is “unacceptable” if the army “considers itself a “State within State” and warned that **“conspiracies” are being hatched to “pack up” his government.**Mr Gilani also strongly criticised the army for failing to detect Osama bin Laden’s presence in the country and said government firmly stood with the institutions and fully protected them after the 2008 Mumbai attacks.Addressing an official function organised to commemorate the birth anniversary of Pakistan’s founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Mr Gilani said: “I want to make it clear today that there are intrigues and conspiracies going on and the conspiracy is to pack up the elected government.”“I want to tell them that whether we are in government or opposition or among the people, we will fight for the rights of the people of Pakistan,” he said without naming those who were behind the conspiracies.People will have to decide whether they want “elected people or a dictatorship”, he added as talk of a rift between his government and the military gathers pace. The Premier made a veiled reference to the differences between his government and the army, saying “no institution can be a state within a state”.He added: “Nobody can say they are not under the government. Every institution of this country, including the ministry of defence, is under the Prime Minister.

“There should be no ambiguity that anybody can claim that I am independent…If any individual thinks they are not under the government, they are mistaken. They are under the government and will remain under the government because we are the elected, chosen representatives of the people of Pakistan.”

Speaking later in the National Assembly or Lower House of parliament, Mr Gilani further criticised Pakistan’s security establishment. Prime Minister’s unusual remarks came in the backdrop of tensions between the civilian government and the powerful military over the memogate scandal.

Responding to a point of order of Leader of the Opposition Mr Choudhary Nisar Ali Khan regarding reply of the defence ministry to the Supreme Court that the army and the ISI are not subordinate to the ministry, the Prime Minister said, “if the army considers itself a State within State, then it is unacceptable,” Pakistan’s state-run APP news agency reported. “If they (army) say that they are not under the ministry of defence, then we should get out of this slavery, then this parliament has no importance, this system has no importance, then you are not sovereign,” he said.

Referring to questions being asked in some quarters about visas issued by the government to US security personnel, Mr Gilani told lawmakers: “We want to ask which visa did he (bin Laden) use to come (to Pakistan)? How he entered Pakistan? That was the cause for which parliament passed a resolution, why the security was not taken care of.

”Mr Gilani, who appeared exasperated, told parliament that his government had stood by the security establishment when it faced American pressure over bin Laden’s presence in Pakistan, last month’s Nato airstrike and the 2008 Mumbai attacks. “In the worst circumstances we doubled their salaries. They have to be accountable to parliament,” he said.

The differences between the government and the military are linked to the Memogate scandal.The army and the ISI have urged the Supreme Court to conduct a probe into the alleged memo made public by Pakistani-American businessman Mansoor Ijaz that had sought US help to prevent a feared coup in Pakistan after the killing of bin Laden. However, the government has challenged the apex court’s jurisdiction to hear a batch of petitions seeking a probe into the scandal, saying the matter is already being investigated by a parliamentary panel.

The government has said President Asif Ali Zardari and Mr Gilani played no role in drafting or delivering the alleged memo. In his remarks, Mr Gilani said his government had the “highest regard and respect for the army” because it had stood up against terrorism and extremists, but made it clear that no institution could function without the support of the people.

Re: "State within state not allowed": Gilani hits out at army

Good first such step, the army should be under the elected government and not the other way round.

Re: "State within state not allowed": Gilani hits out at army

I guess that the first time I see Gilani getting a bit fiery!

Re: "State within state not allowed": Gilani hits out at army

All this fire is coming just because he fears that his days of doing ayashi and looting the public wealth himself and through his son is coming to an end. No one supports a martial law, but at least I don't support these vultures gnawing at the flesh of Pakistan. Do you know how many people have committed suicide and have been killed directly due to the corruption, inefficiency and incompetentness of PM ? I would rather have an animal as my PM than him.

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

I disagree, PPP has always been anti-Pakistan and has always played the sindhi card, weakening the foundations of Pakistan. They broke Pakistan under Bhutto and now their logic is that we will suck this country dry, but if anyone questions us, we will play the sindh card. Such vultures who exploit lisaniat and racism for personal gains are the scum of this country. If they are kicked out, every decent Pakistani will distributing sweets.

Re: "State within state not allowed": Gilani hits out at army

good point..they always hide their incompetence under 'jamhooriat ko khatra' banner.

Re: “State within state not allowed”: Gilani hits out at army

I personally know his person that how much wealthy he is now.
Remember "Charagh bujhnay say pahlay aik dafa bharkta zaroor hay " :cb:

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

It’s the PPP government who wants to go towards martyrdom.. Army, judiciary, and opposition all combined want to avoid that situation. If someone has doubt on the intentions of the government.. wait for the speech of Asif Ali Zardari on 27th December.

We don’t need political martyrs at this moment. let them face the public with the score card of their dismal performance. The intentions, flip flop by the PM is not to save democratic process.. but actually they are inciting the situation to an extent when establishment runs out of patience with them. All this is happening to protect the personal fiefdom of once more tested corrupt self centered political leadership.

Agreed that army must observe restraint even if they need to re track. If PM has some objection on the actions of grade 22 public servants.. he has all the powers to sack them. who is stopping them to take action against these guys. In fact if suddenly the PM has become an angel he should have his faith in the people of Pakistan that they will stand behind him in any eventual situation..

No memo martyrs, please

Mohammad Malick … The writer is editor The News, Islamabad.
Friday, December 23, 2011

Ah the irony of things. On the one hand, the stubbornly reluctant Americans have finally realised the advantages of replacing a fight-fight strategy with a talk-talk approach, an advice forever offered by Pakistan and hitherto ignored by its grudging ally. Yet, at the same time Islamabad and Rawalpindi have themselves embraced a mutually destructive fight-fight power equation. Is everybody going crazy in Islamabad and Rawalpindi, or is there a method to this madness?

The memo war has arguably degenerated into an open impending clash of institutions. On a second thought, maybe the clash has already started. Whatever little was left of the already frayed fig leaf was torn asunder by an exceptionally jingoistic prime minister on Thursday. Let’s mince no words here. Life cannot go back to its old ways any more. Rightly or wrongly, one side may have to give and sooner rather than later.

At a cursory glance, the unsheathing of the sword by the ruling party makes great political and electoral sense.** It is besieged by a horde of seemingly impossible to resolve problems including but not limited to a crippling energy shortage; worsening fiscal crisis; a stagnant economy; horrendous flight of capital coupled with drying up of direct foreign investment; non-existent law and order; absence of governance; dwindling foreign reserves with little hope of timely replenishing and more. Barring the laudable achievements of bringing in a consensus NFC award, the 18th Constitutional amendment and a few similar initiatives, the government doesn’t exactly have an envious election-winning scorecard. So what’s the next best way to win elections? Easy, become martyrs. The hue or colour of such martyrdom doesn’t matter, as long it is wrapped in the national flag and happens in the name of protecting democracy. In 2008, it was the blood of the illustrious Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto that swept the party into power. Come the next general elections, the ruling dispensation would love to pander the body of a ‘mutilated democracy’. As a people, we love the perceived underdog and support the victim. And nobody knows it better than our seasoned political warlords.**

The government’s strategy of creating a democracy-panic in the country, every time it finds itself in some sort of accountability dock, is now an all too familiar a pattern. So far, the tactic had repeatedly been used against the Supreme Court because of its ‘irritating’ habit of putting spanners in various dirty works of the government. The judges have been accused of endangering the ‘fragile democratic process’ because of their “judicial overreach”. And there were always those insulting and provocative press conferences by incensed democrats, purposely inviting the wrath of judges in a bid to divert attention from the real issues and hopefully create some judicial-martyrs. Sanity prevailed and so far the judges have sidestepped the naked IED.

Remember the time when the Supreme Court first took up the NRO case. All of a sudden, democracy faced the greatest threat to its existence. The same happened when the review petition of the same was being heard. Of course, when the revision petition was rejected, democracy almost perished. And democracy will unquestionably face another grave threat if and when the court insists upon the implementation of its already delivered verdicts. The memo affair has proven no different. Instead of ensuring an incisively exhaustive and honest investigation into the memo affair, the government is now clearly bent upon exploiting it as a martyr-making opportunity. Memogate was a simple isolated incident and only warranted a circumspect investigation into serious allegations against a Pakistani ambassador. Instead, it has deliberately been blown up into a full-scale conspiracy against democracy. Ridiculous.

The prime minister has claimed that a conspiracy against his democratically elected government is in full swing. Stopping a step short of identifying it by name, he accused the army of hatching a conspiracy against the government, and of course democracy. Such was his venom that he even intoned that the defence establishment was being paid from the national exchequer and should remember that it was subservient to the government and the parliament. Parliament, as he said, was the supreme institution of the country. No arguing here.

That democracy must reign in the country, regardless of who rules, is a given. When an elected prime minister of the country stands inside the holy citadel of the parliament and claims treasonous moves against democracy and democratic institutions, the nation is expected to, and must, rally behind him. But here lies the irritating rub. Which version of the PM do we believe? What cause of his do we rally to?

During the past fortnight alone, our dear prime minister has done more flip-flops than anyone can dare count. Just before this darned memo, or the frivolous “piece of paper”, to quote the honourable prime minister, had appeared on the political horizon it appeared that the PM and his generals lived in a Utopia. According to him, the army and the civil leadership were on the same page and the generals were paying due homage to their supreme commander and to the PM himself. Democracy, he would say was hail and hearty in this land of the pure and he was in “absolute command of all state organs including the armed forces”. But then came the memo, and everything changed. On the one hand, the PM rubbishes the memo as a fraud but at the same time eagerly claims Husain Haqqani’s scalp and that too because ‘his’ DG ISI felt good about the ‘now bad’ evidence. The DG ISI was patriotic then and treasonous now. Funny. The same Gen Kayani was good enough to be given a three-year extension not that long ago but is now a scheming Charlton presumably because his testimony in the memo case does not synthesis with that of Islamabad. Interesting.

If the prime minister is convinced that he is on the right and is genuinely fighting for democracy then it is incumbent upon him to stand up for the concept and the Constitution.** If he believes that the COAS and his men are indulging in a macabre attempt to derail democracy for their own personal gains then he has to do more than just blow hot air. He must act and order the removal of any elements that illegally challenge the legal writ of the state. Consequences be damned. In such an eventuality, he must trust the people to stand behind him and support him to the end. And indeed they will, including the immensely powerful media. But we know that will not happen because this latest storm in the teacup is not about protecting democracy but about shielding political and personal fiefdoms.**

It is the fervent hope of the saner elements in this country that institutional insanity is eschewed in favour of greater national interest. To quote the words of the PPP’ s own young chairman, Bilawal Bhutto, “Democracy is the best revenge”. Could there be a better revenge than forcing a reluctant regime to undergo the harsh test of facing its suffering people and in turn suffer an unsparing accountability come the next elections? As matters stand today, the government would love to provoke the military establishment into retaliating out of the deliberately created fear of its own survival and thus unwittingly transform a highly unpopular government into a popular democratic victim of undemocratic forces. Let the prime minister fume and thunder, let him roll a head or two but whatever happens,** the PM must not be helped to transform his dirty brigade into gallant democratic martyrs.** What this country needs is a memo investigation, not memo martyrs.

Email: [email protected]

Re: "State within state not allowed": Gilani hits out at army

These corrupt politicians don't have balls to claim authority, if army is not under your control why you did not resign and go home. But he was happy, getting kickbaks through his son. We have no sympathy for u, Mr PM.

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

[note]Threads having similar discussion are being merged here..[/note]

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

Exactly.

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

They play the Sindhi card because Sindh is not as favoured as Punjab. Punjab gets more development than Sindh and most of Pakistan's power base ie the army come from Punjab. The PPP are the only party with support in all provinces.

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

For that he is needed alive!

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

Sounds like the army has gained credible evidence of Zardari's involvement in the memo, which is why this showdown. Kudos to the army for not taking unilateral action against this thug party, and going the proper route. I feel the supreme court inquiry will show enough to implicate Zardari. Plus, the fact that it is fairly certain that Zardari suffers from epileptic fits makes him unfit to hold any office at this high a level (or any other level for that matter), so he and PPP seemingly seem on their way out soon.

I think the Supreme court is also ticked of at Gillani because of the fact that the govt was told to tell the swiss to reopen the cases against Zardari a long time ago, but the government hasnt complied.

Re: Pakistan army wants Zardari out but not a coup

For whatever reasons there may be (media, world pressure, lack of support) Kiyani is the most un-interfering COAS we have had. Now imagine his position, he finds out that Zardari or Haqqani were planning to go behind his back to states for some kind of help against him? That would really made him go anyone mad, let alone him. If he wants Zardari out, then I am in favour of it.