Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
Under Jinnah, it was the “dominion of Pakistan”, it was the ball washers of the likes of the fundos that went ahead and changed it 8-9 years after Jinnah passed away.
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
^ RCMP do not fly Jets. As Kaleem earlier said: That Beared do "get into" masks, and might lead to difficulties rendering the Pilot unsafe. However, the article also stated that one of them was an engineer....
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
With all honesty, I don't support or know even a bit about any of the mullah political parties or mullah political personalities in Pakistan. From the little that I know, whatever shariah bill or legislation they have is messed up anyway. Therefore, Pakistan could do away with such folks and legislations and I could care less.
Given that there's hardly anything Islamic about Pakistan, the name should be changed to 'Republic of Pakistan'. However, like in many other secular nations, religious courts for different religions should be permissible, so those who wish to follow the Islamic teachings or rulings in their lives can refer to such courts.
Furthermore, hardly any of us is a good Muslim anyway (at least I know I'm not). Therefore, endlessly blaming the mullahs isn't quite ideal (no, I don't support them or have anything to do with them). I believe all of us (Muslims) are to blame to an extent.
antiobl, perhaps Sikhs may have it as one of the pillars of their faith to grow beard, keep in mind that some of us Muslims believe that it is wajib to keep beard. Therefore, it cannot be ruled out that as something over which Muslims have consensus about.
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
^ how to prevent the problems beard causes in a fighter plane... do you even know how STRICTLY fighter pilots have to abide by rules while in an expensive aircraft, agar dhari itni azeez hai tu fighter pilot na banno...
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
tmx305, I'm not quite sure how dangerous it could be. If it really is, then perhaps those who believe beard to be wajib should either stay away from flying or try to find out if they could be exempt from keeping a beard.
While at it, if beard's an impediment for flying and not for other ground positions, then I hope the policies would allow the ground staff to maintain a beard.
Also, when I'm saying beard, I'm not referring to foot long beard.
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
While at it, if beard's an impediment for flying and not for other ground positions, then I hope the policies would allow the ground staff to maintain a beard.
Also, when I'm saying beard, I'm not referring to foot long beard.
I have seen ALOT of ppl even PIA pilots with beards, no one stops them, ppl just need to take pot shots at Pakistan for no reason. When they stop playing football with balls that have the kalimah, or throwing and beating up veiled/hijabed women in buses in Canada, maybe then you guys can come and criticize pakistan and its religious freedom.
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
And how is this relevant to the case at hand (ie. if it does turn out to be true)?
Pushing a hijabi off the bus was a random case. Pakistanis in general seem to be more averse to hijabis than Muslim and non-Muslim Canadians in Canada.
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
You were the one who brought in the silly Canada comparisons, not me.
[quote]
Pushing a hijabi off the bus was a random case. Pakistanis in general seem to be more averse to hijabis than Muslim and non-Muslim Canadians in Canada.
[/quote]
Yeah random case, a women in a veil beaten and kicked out of a bus in the worst possible manner, just because she looked different and wore a veil. If you have ever been to Pakistan you should know women are treated with the utmost respect, and if they have a veil on, they get even more respect. Even this forum is full of accounts of guppans who were forced to quit their jobs in canada just because their employers werent comfortable with their hijabz.
Like I said, Pakistan is MUCH better off than any of these countries in the west where Muslims are viewed as potential danger. Those that mock it are usually ABCDs, BBCDs etc who have no clue about life in Pakistan and think being second class citizen in some foriegn country gives them a right to criticize Pakistan alone.
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
And yeah, this article posted here has ZERO journalistic credibility, its written by some hate mongering association in Pakistan that once tried blowing up people's television sets by pluggin tv cable wires outside in high voltages.
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
fundoism doesn't need a beard; what about gen hamig gul and aslam beck?
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
PAF recruits are forced to run around mushy naked before beling allowed to fly a plane. It's true honest. Pier Abu Badar Hussy Weirdo Haji read the Quran for 5 weeks non-stop then fell asleep and had this dream where Mushy was wipping the new recruits as thry ran around him naked. Pass this onto 20 people and passage to heaven will be made for you. Otherwise the devil will eat you.
Anyone can make BS up.
One pilot forcibly retired, four grounded in crackdown on beards
Karachi - In a continuing crackdown on any form of Islamic expression in the ranks of the armed forces, the Pakistan Air Force forcibly retired one officer and lined up four others for similar treatment. According to information gathered by the Herald, the officers have been meted out this punishment as a consequence of their refusal to shave off their beards. The action, say sources, has been launched on the specific instructions of Air Chief Kaleem Sadaat.
The drive against beards was initiated recently in line with directives from the high command to rein in fundamentalist elements within the armed forces. In the case of beards, the original stipulation dating back to the colonial period states that no serving personnel can keep facial hair without prior written permission from the high command. This directive was waived during the rule of General Ziaul Haq and remained in effect till its recent revocation. Given the legacy of the Zia years, the move has understandably led to several cases of noncompliance and resultant action by the high command.
In the current case, the five officers in question are all pilots. Squadron Leader Mohsin Hayat Ranjha, the officer forced into retirement, had just returned from the US after completing an advanced fighter course. On his return, Ranjha was first asked to dispense with his beard and on his refusal, was retired prematurely’ on October 12, 2005. Since then, four other officers-Squadron Leader Naveed Riaz, Flight Lieutenant Saqib, Flight Lieutenant Ajmal and Flight Lieutenant Fazl-e-Rabi have been lined up for similar punishment due to their refusal to shave off their beards. All four officers are currently grounded and proceedings have started for their premature retirement. Even more disturbingly, another officer Flight Lieutenant Atif, albeit of the engineering corps, has also been retired forcibly for distributing Quranic verses and sayings of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) among fellow officers.
While the current exercise has been implemented with zeal, it has created widespread resentment among the officers ranks since the action is deemed by most as unnecessary interference in a personal matter. In addition there is an impression that the officers targeted so far were among the most competent, particularly Squadron Leader Ranjha. Ex-air force officers also point out that the officers being hounded out are not just a loss in terms of manpower and expertise but also in terms of the taxpayers money as they have been trained at a cost of millions of rupees. “The officers are at the apex of their careers and have just started to pay back in terms of services what was spent on them,” says Squadron Leader (retd) Khalid Khawaja, who has brought this issue to the public’s attention.
The air force officers imbroglio is the latest in a series of cases involving disobedience and revolt among the ranks of the armed forces. In addition to the well-publicised involvement of air force and army personnel in the assassination attempts on General Musharraf, there is the court martial of six army aviation officers for their refusal to fly sorties in the Waziristan insurgency. Then there is the case of Major Adil Qudoos’ court martial on charges of harbouring 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammad. While all these instances are far more serious in nature than the recent controversy over beards, the punishments meted out to the officers in question have been accepted only grudgingly by the officer corps.
Syed Shoaib Hasan - The Herald, March 2006 - Page 47
Re: One pilot forcibly retired, four grounded in crackdown on beards
I must say that this is really sad news and I feel sorry for those officers. Having a beard or not should be a personal choice and not something that is imposed on you by your senior officers.
Re: One pilot forcibly retired, four grounded in crackdown on beards
All to impress the Americans, Mush policies have gone too far
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
Bismilla hir rehma nirrahim
Assalam o alikum wa rehmatullah
Respected brother Sohaib,
I pray from Allah Subhanao Ta’ala that this mail find u in the best of your health and Eiman alongwith your family.
Jazakallah for ur concern towards my act. I would like to discuss ur points one by one. I’m copying ur first point below as
However, I am of the opinion that if one is under oath from Army, Air Force or Pakistan government then one cannot take another oath with a political or religious party. This is not only forbidden by law but also defies logic and reason.
You r right that at the time of commission in PAF, I took the oath that we will not join any sectarian religious and political party. This point was in my mind before taking pledge of allegiance with Ameer-e-Tanzeem. The thing which made me to do that was Tanzeem-e-Islami is neither a sectarian religious group nor political party rather it’s an Islamic revolutionary party which came into being not to promote any sect of Islam, but to fulfill the faraid (obligations) on Muslims by Allah (SWT), for which a disciplined revivalist party based on personnel pledge of allegiance (Baiyah) is inevitable. To understand this thing more, I request u to go through with two very essential books i) Obligations to God, and ii) Baiyah: The Basis for Organization of a Revivalist Party in Islam
You can read both of books by clicking them. Moreover, first of all I’m Muslim and then anything else. Before taking oath with Airforce I have taken an oath twice with Allah (SWT), firstly before the creation of this universe in the ‘world of souls’ which is mentioned in Ayat 172 and 173 of Soorah Aaraf as below
-
And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam’s loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): “Am I not your Lord?” They said: “Yes! We testify,” lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: “Verily, we have been unaware of this.”
-
Or lest you should say: “It was only our fathers afortime who took others as partners in worship along with Allâh, and we were (merely their) descendants after them; will You then destroy us because of the deeds of men who practised Al-Bâtil (i.e. polytheism and committing crimes and sins, invoking and worshipping others besides Allâh)?” (Tafsir At-Tabarî).
Secondly in this world by uttering the words “La ilaha illallah Muhammadur rasoolullah”, I have a pledge with Allah (SWT) that I will not worship (complete obedience in all aspects of life) anyone but only Allah in a way told us by Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
You have given the examples of Babar Choudry and Qadyaani disciples in military that they refused their commanders at the time of need. Brother, they are the people who hide their faiths and go along with the military even at the cost of Allah’s disobedience but in the obedience of their religious leaders who tell them to compromise with the orders of Allah(SWT) in the military just to stay there and get good status and when they require to fulfill their own needs, they tell their followers to create disturbance in military by disobeying. In my case brother, I have got conflictions from the beginning when Allah blessed me with real conviction, definitely on wrong things and wrong orders in Air Force which were directly contradictory with the orders of Allah (SWT). I’m bound to not obey anyone where the clear order of Allah and His Apostle (SAW) is violated. Refer the hadith of Prophet Muhammed (SAW),
“There is no obedience of anyone where the order of Allah is violated” (Abu Dawood)
Moreover, Allah says in Quran that to be good and dutiful with ur parents, but even if they tell u something which is against the order of Allah then don’t obey them because the first right on us is of Allah (SWT) and then anybody else. Refer ayat 14 and 15 of Soorah Luqman and ayat 8 of Soorah Ankaboot. Allah stress upon us to dedicate our obedience with Him only and this is the crust of Quranic message. This thing is elaborated in book “Allah Ka Insanoo Say Wahid Mutaliba”
Islam is a complete code of life which guides us in every aspect of life and wants its follower the complete and unconditional obedience without any reservation. It is not that I would just offer prayers, obey Allah in my personnel life and in my collective matters, I would break the orders of Allah in order to obey my commanders. The case of beard is just the glimpse of the level of secularism in military which is not even a collective issue, rather a personnel one. So there is no discussion of Tanzeem. In my whole case, I’ve just taken the advices from the brothers in Tanzeem and not anyone from there gives me any order to do anything. Brother, always remember that in every rotten Muslim society whenever somebody stands up with truth and carry out the obligations of “Amar bil Maaroof o Nahi unil munkar” , he has to face the ailments and tortures from that society. This is a firm rule of Allah (SWT) which is mentioned at many places in Quran. See Ayat 214 of Soorah Baqara
Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, “When (will come) the Help of Allâh?” Yes! Certainly, the Help of Allâh is near!
And also refer Ayat 2 & 3 of Soorah Ankaboot says
Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: “We believe,” and will not be tested.
- And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allâh will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allâh knows all that before putting them to test).
U can also understand this point with the lives of prophets who were tortured and sometimes killed by their so-called Muslim societies (Mind it that prophets were sent towards bani Israel which was Muslim Ummah before us)
The second point u have raised is
those of us who wish to bring about change in the society cannot treat their fellows as if they have become kafirs. Organizations like Hizb ut Tehrir have made a fundamental mistake by not differentiating between a Muslim society under UnIslamic laws and a non-Muslim society
Whether u r working in so called Muslim society or in non-Muslim society, u will not say them kafir as this is against the wisdom of preaching (Daawa). Prophet Muhammed (SAW) did not address the idol worshippers of Mecca as ‘kaafir’ in whole of the Macci Quran, but just before migration (Hijra) when Prophet (SAW) had testified the Deen to them completely from his words and deeds and the polytheists had rejected Islam fully then Soorah Kaafiroon was revealed to Prophet Muhammed (SAW) in which he was ordered by Allah to address the Mushrikeen as ‘Kaafir’. In order to understand how to work in Muslim society for the establishment of Deen we can take guidance from Ayaat 102 to 104 of Soorah Aal-e-Imran whose detail is mentioned in an article Three Point Action Agenda.
May Allah makes you the best one who avoids harming the Muslims with his tongue and hands.
Aameen
Wassalam o alaikum
Atif Imad
Asstt. to Nazim-e-Ala
Tanzeem-e-Islami
Central Office
67-A, Allama Iqbal Road
Garhi Shahoo, Lahore
Pin Code 54000
Ph # (042)6366638
Mobile # 0333-3783181
e-mail : [email protected]
website : http://tanzeem.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Sohaib Umar [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Nazim-e-A’la
Subject: RE: Something about me and the religious condition of Pakistan Air Force
May I also add one thing, and this is my personal opinion. It is indeed a duty of every Muslim to try to establish deen in his personal life first and then collectively at family, friends, community, national and international levels sequentially. However, I am of the opinion that if one is under oath from Army, Air Force or Pakistan government then one cannot take another oath with a political or religious party. This is not only forbidden by law but also defies logic and reason. You can imagine that such a situation can create a dangerous scenario where, for example, the disciplies of Babar Chaudhry (Al Rahman Al Raheem) widely suspected to be an American agent, who also happen to be officers in the military may defy their commanders at a time of need and instead follow Babar’s orders. It has happened in case of Qadiyanis in the military. If it is wrong for these sects in all fairness it should also be wrong for all other religious as well as political parties, because who will pick and choose the good from bad.
It is of course fine if an Army person has affiliations with a political or religious party in terms of attending their gatherings, listening to various scholars for self learning etc. This is different from being under oath, which has other, undesirable consequences.
Also, while our behavior at collective level is akin to those of zalimoon/kafiroon, those of us who wish to bring about change in the society cannot treat their fellows as if they have become kafirs. Organizations like Hizb ut Tehrir have made a fundamental mistake by not differentiating between a Muslim society under UnIslamic laws and a non-Muslim society. Hence their fatawa to wage qital against rulers of some Arab nations are incorrect in my opinion, and have only brought more miseries to the Muslim world.
Sohaib
-----Original Message-----
From: Atif Imad [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:28 AM
To: ‘Sohaib Umar’
Cc: Nazim-e-A’la
Subject: RE: Something about me and the religious condition of Pakistan Air Force
Bismilla hir rehma nirrahim
Assalam o alikum wa rehmatullah
Respected,
I pray from Allah Subhanao Ta’ala that this mail find u in the best of your health and Eiman alongwith your family.
Jazakallah for showing ur precious zeals and passions. Alhamdolillah u have understood the purpose behind delivering that mail that if anybody has still any doubt in his mind that we are living in Islamic country then it must be removed now. But it projects a question that now whose responsibility is to establish this Deen-e-Islam first of all in his own country and then throughout the world. Definitely, the responsibility lies on the shoulders of those people who claim to be Muslim. Here we need to understand that since our all decisions whether in Parliments or in courts do not base on Quran and Sunnah therefore we all r kaafiroon, zaalimoon and faasiqoon at collective level in the light of Quran. Pl see Ayaat 44,45 and 47 of Soorah Maida given below
…..And whosoever does not judge by what Allâh has revealed, such are the Kâfirûn (i.e. disbelievers) (44)
…. And whosoever does not judge by that which Allâh has revealed, such are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong*doers) (45)
….. And whosoever does not judge by what Allâh has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fâsiqûn (the rebellious i.e. disobedient) to Allâh (47)
Moreover, Allah dislike more such people who claim to be Muslims but act like Non Muslims. Therefore, Allah said in Soorah Nisaa that hypocrates will be burnt up in the last ditch of hell. Also refer Ayat 2 and 3 of Soorah Saf
O you who believe! Why do you say that which you do not do?
Most hateful it is with Allâh that you say that which you do not do.
In addition to that Allah has ordered us directly in Ayat 13 of Soorah Shoora
The same path has He established for u as that which He enjoined on Noah (AS), that which We have sent by inspiration to you (SAW) and that which We enjoined on Abraham (AS), Moses (AS) and Jesus (AS), that you should establish the Deen and make no divisions therein.
And if we will not obey this order then Allah has shown us the mirror by addressing Ahl-e-Kitaab in Sooah Maida Ayat No. 68
Say (O Muhammad SAW) “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! You have nothing (as regards guidance) till you establish the Taurât (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), and what has (now) been sent down to you from your Lord.”
In the end, I request u to concentrate and focus ur all passions, zeals and strength in establishing of Islam as complete code of life in a way adopted by Prophet Muhammad (SAW) because that is the only way we can hope for some betterment. In order to understand the procedure adopted by Prophet Muhammed (SAW) for the establishment of Deen, I request u to go through the book available at following link
http://tanzeem.org/online/ebooks/rasool%20inqilab%20ka%20tareeq%20inqalaab.pdf
May Allah makes you the best one who avoids harming the Muslims with his tongue and hands.
Aameen
Wassalam o alaikum
Atif Imad
Asstt. to Nazim-e-Ala
Tanzeem-e-Islami
Central Office
67-A, Allama Iqbal Road
Garhi Shahoo, Lahore
Pin Code 54000
Ph # (042)6366638
Mobile # 0333-3783181
e-mail : [email protected]
website : http://tanzeem.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Sohaib Umar [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Something about me and the religious condition of Pakistan Air Force
Dear Atif
This is indeed most unfortunate. May Allah give you the courage to withstand this; it is your Jihad.
One should not accept this unfairness without putting up a fight. Air Force is Pakistan’s asset, funded by tax payers’ money. Yeh kisi kay bap ki jagir nahin hai. it is your right, rather duty to fight against this. I would request you to pls devise a concerted plan with your fellow colleagues in a cold blooded manner. The biggest help you can get is from the media. After silencing the judiciary and general public, our rulers only have some fear left for the embarrassment caused by the media. Fear of God has been replaced by fear of media power, so it is your best chance to use this power to your advantage.
at the same time one has to be careful that there is no general revolt like situation in the Air Force, because it would be disastrous for Pakistan.
Sohaib
Re: One pilot forcibly retired, four grounded in crackdown on beards
well not really.
naval and air force officers are not suppose to have beards, its tradition
and in regards to Islam of having beards.
it is recommended and not required
Re: One pilot forcibly retired, four grounded in crackdown on beards
naval and air force officers are not suppose to have beards, its tradition
and in regards to Islam of having beards.
it is recommended and not required
Yes, Islam recommends having a beard and it is not a requirement. But does that mean that the army, air force or navy of a so called "Islamic country" is justified in forcing it's officers to shave that beard? Definitely not.
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
Right on, this thread/bakwas makes no sense now
Re: Pakistan Airforce Crackdown on Beards
This is indeed most unfortunate. May Allah give you the courage to withstand this; it is your Jihad. ................
Oh no! These Jihadis are like the little head that keeps on popping up in the game "Pop the weasel".
Islam and Mohammad pbuh brought the message of Truthfulness (Sadiq), Trustworthiness (Amin), Tolerance and love (Rahim and Karim).
What we have now is a bunch of beardo weirdos hell bent on terrorism and tribalism.
Beard is much lower on the priority list of pillars of Islam. Making beard the biggest show-off piece and forgetting about truth, trust, and tolerance is at best hypocritical.
Salaams.