"Pak Studies" was taught in a very very biased way.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by laeeqkhan: *
^ you are so right. Who cares what is taught in our text books. What reallty matters is what is taught in our mosques. A mosque is a place we all almost visit everday, or friday atleast. There we are taught rightly that there is only ONE God worthy of worship and that He is to be worshiped directly. He The Almighty Allah is Supreme and there is nothing like Him. He does not reside in idols nor in images!
[/QUOTE]

That's fantastic! I am glad you learned your lesson. I bet you got all As.

Shabash.

I thought I add some masala while I am still lurking… :slight_smile:

http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-11-2004_pg7_9

New world order in Indian book

Daily Times Monitor

BANGALORE: There’s a new world order in Karnataka’s social science
textbook for Class 7 (Marathi medium), the Times of India newspaper
reported on Thursday.

A map (on page 107) shows Pakistan as an island in the Arabian Sea.
Agreed Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai, but showing China in India. :hehe:

Here’s another geographical update: Tibet has shifted base to the Bay
of Bengal where SAARC members like Bhutan, Bangladesh, Nepal are a
cluster of island-nations. :rotfl:

These glaring errors figure in Chapter 19, which deals with India in
World Affairs. Most textbooks, distributed free to all students from
Class 1 to 7 and girl students from Class 8 to 10 in government
schools across Karnataka — are full of errors and of substandard
quality.

Not just that. The supposedly colourful books have shrunk in size and
turned black and white. And the authorities have just not bothered to
rectify them, the paper said. Who’s accountable for the anomalies?

The Indian textbooks under Congress or BJP have never villified muslims and shown them as wily or conniving, creepy crawlies that the hindus have been painted by the Pakistani version. Though the BJP did change certain versions which showed that everything was hunky dory under the Mughals. Starting with the rule of Jehangir, who was always in a intoxicated state and the kingdom was ruled by proxy by his wife Nurjahan along with the Mullahs, the struggle between the Hindus and the Muslims reached a culmination point during Aurangzeb's rule when he launced his conversion drive in Kashmir. Gradually, Kashmir, Punjab and the Deccan all went up in arms against him. For the sake of amity, the Congress had not included that in the textbooks, but including that part of history in the textbooks does not amount to saffronisation.

I agree Pak textbooks etc are very bias and promote certain, lets say less then wholesome ways of thinking...
But, if we are the brainwashing nation we are accused of being then why is it that WE open our borders and allow thousands of Indians to come and watch cricket while the Indians would never let a single Pakistani in on fear that he may be a terrorist? Why do we treat Indians as guests, refusing they even pay their bills at resteraunts despite being fed this constant diet of Hindu prejudice? How can we host thousands of their religous pilgrims when we cant even play cricket in their country without having abuse hurled at us? Why are we portrayed as minority hating terrorists while they can conviently overlook their own shortcomings (and they have MANY)?
Talwar sahib and other Indian guppies should consider why despite Indias vaunted educational sytem, were still seen as the barbaric enemy, while despite Pakistans "biased" educational system, we are far more accepting of them...
Please do answer this Indian guppies.. Dont ignore it.

There is plenty more but this should take the cake

School texts heil Hitler, slam Gandhi

Schooled in Jhad
Chicagi Tribune

At public schools in Karachi, children as young as 5th graders still learn about the glories of jihad and martyrdom in textbooks the government approves. One 9th-grade student told a Tribune reporter that he dreamed of going to fight in a jihad when he grows up, if he could get his mother’s blessing.

:
:
One of the few things public schools and madrassas have in common is the teaching of jihad, an Islamic concept that has two meanings – one a personal struggle against temptation and another a war of Muslims against aggressors. In Pakistan, particularly in the madrassas, jihad has essentially come to mean war.

A rare glimpse inside a madrassa

Almost 3,000 boys and young men attend Darul Uloom Haqqania, perhaps Pakistan’s best-known madrassa, often referred to in media reports as the University of Jihad. Its most famous student was Mullah Mohammed Omar, the one-eyed cleric who led the Taliban, the puritanical regime that once ruled neighboring Afghanistan.

On a rare visit inside Haqqania, boys can be seen locked in a courtyard for most of the day, rocking back and forth, memorizing the Koran and staring at a white wall. They are not allowed to talk to or look at each other. They do not understand the Arabic language they memorize, the teachers say.

Centuries-old textbooks are still in use, and the school’s leader, Samiul Haq, speaks with pride of Mullah Omar and his followers.

“I was pleased they became the rulers of Afghanistan,” Samiul says. “They restored law and order there. They respected human rights. They respected women’s rights. They completely eliminated heroin and drug use.”

:
:
But buried in these books are matter-of-fact references to fighting and war. On page 65 of the English book, the focus switches from geography to Islam. Stories feature violent lessons against idol worship–a pointed reference against Hindus in neighboring India. In grammar lessons, the book includes these examples: “You had been participating in Jihad” and “Go and fight the enemy.”

In science classes at a girls’ madrassa in Islamabad, students learn that the sun was made by God. They study English translations of the Koran. A math lesson includes a formula that says God made the world in seven days. “God created everything,” says Shameem Akhtar, vice principal of the madrassa. “So every subject relates to God.”

:
:
As early as 5th grade, public school students learn about jihad and martyrdom. A recent 5th-grade Urdu textbook devoted a chapter to Pakistani soldiers killed by the Indian army. The chapter quoted religious texts emphasizing that a Muslim has no faith if he does not wish for martyrdom, and that martyrs earn a special place in heaven.

Excellent news indeed!

MashaAllah Pakistanis are not dead as I think. We are proud of what we are taught! It is 100% right! Others need to learn about real Islam.

[quote]
At public schools in Karachi, children as young as 5th graders still learn about the glories of jihad and martyrdom in textbooks the government approves. One 9th-grade student told a Tribune reporter that he dreamed of going to fight in a jihad when he grows up, if he could get his mother's blessing.
[/quote]

Guess what the glory of Jihad is being told in Quran as well.. so should we hide Quran from 5 year olds?

[quote]
One of the few things public schools and madrassas have in common is the teaching of jihad, an Islamic concept that has two meanings -- one a personal struggle against temptation and another a war of Muslims against aggressors. In Pakistan, particularly in the madrassas, jihad has essentially come to mean war.
[/quote]

True, that is something that needs to be worked on. Jihad means struggle and it can be in any aspect of one’s life.

[quote]
On a rare visit inside Haqqania, boys can be seen locked in a courtyard for most of the day, rocking back and forth, memorizing the Koran and staring at a white wall. They are not allowed to talk to or look at each other. They do not understand the Arabic language they memorize, the teachers say.
[/quote]

So in other schools in Pakistan and across the world people memorize other stuff in schools without understanding what they heck they are memorizing… so why not this? What is so wrong here?

[quote]
Centuries-old textbooks are still in use, and the school's leader, Samiul Haq, speaks with pride of Mullah Omar and his followers.
[/quote]

Centuries old book that I know being used in Pak is Quran, what you gonna do, update it? … as far as text books that is not possible since Pak’s existence has been less than a century… unless of course they are using text-books from Indian system that came over with partition in 1947.

[quote]
In science classes at a girls' madrassa in Islamabad, students learn that the sun was made by God. They study English translations of the Koran. A math lesson includes a formula that says God made the world in seven days. "God created everything," says Shameem Akhtar, vice principal of the madrassa. "So every subject relates to God."
[/quote]

Nothing wrong in that… Pakistan is an Islamic Republic and unless it is made a secular state these things are in sync with the ideology of the nation. Go to Christian schools and learn how science is taught over there and how other subjects are taught there… every thing relates to God and regardless of your faith you have to pray to God since you are in a religious school. Pakistan’s system is based on (or at least they claim) Islamic system. So this all makes sense.

Issues that we have is that are we an Islamic state or a secular one…. The name, passport and majority of the people of Pakistan say it is an Islamic one.. so what is stated here makes sense… now don’t start dragging in the madrasas that are misusing and misrepresenting this we all know what they do is deplorable. Before we start bashing Mullahs and the Islamic teachings and stuff lets first decide do we want a secular state or Islamic and the rest will follow.

^^ Nice job at avoiding the point Chachoo.

On the contrary I am pointing out the problem with the analysis provided by you and others in this thread and countless other threads... everything is put in one pot and then comes the ghaseeta.... understand the issues and look at them in the context before an analysis is dished out...

^^ The problem is that you have selectively ignored the main points as well as statistics that negate your theory.

I'll post a point by point counter shortly.

^ that shows everyone has a different perspective on what the main points are for a given problem.. but please go ahead and share what are your main points and stats...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChaChoo: *

Guess what the glory of Jihad is being told in Quran as well.. so should we hide Quran from 5 year olds?
[/quote]

The problems is not in teaching jihad, but in what else you teach and in what context you teach it.

This report and countless others prove that in Pakistani madrassas, jihad is taught along with military training and hatred of other faiths.

You teach a kid that violent jihad is justified to protect Muslims and then tell him that so and so other religions are oppressing Muslims and then next day you teach him how to fire AKs and Grenade launchers - what you have is a terrorist training school.

Ever wonder why jihadi groups from Indonesia to Turkey to Australia to the US send recruits to study in Pakistan?

[quote]
True, that is something that needs to be worked on. Jihad means struggle and it can be in any aspect of one’s life.
[/quote]

Worked on by who? Your government isn't doing anything. How many jihadi tanzeems in Pakistan have as their aims to pursue peaceful struggle?

[quote]
So in other schools in Pakistan and across the world people memorize other stuff in schools without understanding what they heck they are memorizing… so why not this? What is so wrong here?
[/quote]

Misleading argument.

Everyone has had to go through a rutta/rote curriculum. But what subjects you are forced to memorize is the key. I had to memorize history of europe, the water cycle and the pythagoras theorem. But these kids learn from one particular sect's version of the Quran which has very little place for other faiths and teaches them that things are black and white - they are good, others are evil, it is up to them to take up arms and avenge the injustice.

Rutta-ing of science however doesn't produce terrorists.

[quote]
Centuries old book that I know being used in Pak is Quran, what you gonna do, update it? … as far as text books that is not possible since Pak’s existence has been less than a century… unless of course they are using text-books from Indian system that came over with partition in 1947.
[/quote]

They are not just talking about the Quran. Read carefully. They are referring to the Dars-i-Nizamiya curriculum which does not equip a student with the skills needed for modern society. The Dars was developed under Aurangzeb's rule in Mughal India and it was meant to train students to become Maulanas. But in Pakistan, millions are being trained under this curriculum of which only a miniscule percentage go on to become clerics.

What happens to the rest? What skills do they have to make money and feed their families? Is it any wonder that most of them, already full of distorted views on the world, easily join jihadi tanzeems which guarantee them money and provide work?

That brings me to the point about numbers.

  1. There are about 25,000 to 40,000 madrassas in Pakistan. That number is increasing rapidly as time passes. (Many sources including World Bank reports, ICG reports etc.)

  2. At any time, there are between 1.5 million and 3 million students in Pakistani madrassas. Of these, only a small percentage (less than 5%) go on to become religious scholars. (Same sources as above.)

  3. About 15% of Pakistani madrassas impart military training and/or are involved in violence. (Source Pak govt and World Bank)

  4. To date, less than 300 of Pakistani madrassas have even registered under government proposed curriculum. In Jan 2002, Musharraf said that all will be registered by March 29, 2002. Nothing has happened yet.

  5. Pakistan govt has not closed any jihadi group affiliated madrassa to date, despite many Al Qaeda suspects being arrested from those places

  6. Pakistan government has so far not passed or enforced any law to monitor the madrassa finances and their ties to jihadi or sectarian groups

Can you now understand the magnitude of the problem?

^ You see, the country from you come, where the state and its armed forces, educated, well equipped and trained practices terror on innocents and that too Muslims in Kashmir. These people(army) who supress happen to have studied geography, english and your pythogoras theorems. So here comes the problem, there is a small country next door, that had decided to escape all that 50 years ago and is even fighting a war of survival today.

I am amazed at the level of knowledge and concern you have about our madrassas but at the same time, no knowlege of your own internal poilitics that is becoming increasingly saffronized. Here in Pakistan, it is the brave people who risk everything to save their brothers from opression while on your side it is the governement allowing, aiding and abetting terror; and still says that they are figting "atangwaad". 50 years and stilll you do not learn a lesson.

Can you now understand the magnitude of the problem?

Laeeq,

I see that you have reverted back to the victim mentality.

If you want to discuss the saffronization of India, please start another thread in the WAF and post with neutrally sourced statistics and facts.

The reason myself and most of the world are concerned about Pakistan's madrassas is that almost every jihadi terrorist in the world, from Iraq to Indonesia to Australia to Holland are trained there. The world won't care if you stop exporting terrorists.

Your argument about smal country etc. is bogus. Taiwan is a small country fighting for survival against monster China, but it doesn't teach kids that mainlanders are evil and they should go and kill them all. Instead, it is a beacon of education and prosperity, even as it maintains a tense fight with mainland.

If Pakistan has to train kids to fight, what are its million man army and services for?

One final suggestion, if you don't have the ability to discuss using facts and stats, stay out and let us adults handle it. ;)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
Laeeq,

I see that you have reverted back to the victim mentality.

[/quote]

Really!

[quote]

If you want to discuss the saffronization of India, please start another thread in the WAF and post with neutrally sourced statistics and facts.

[/quote]

Yes that saffronization got 1000s killed and mostly Muslims in India. That has no meaning for you.

[quote]

The reason myself and most of the world are concerned about Pakistan's madrassas is that almost every jihadi terrorist in the world, from Iraq to Indonesia to Australia to Holland are trained there. The world won't care if you stop exporting terrorists.

[/quote]

As I said, why are you only concerned about what your American masters tell you. What about the great injustices done by the governemnts in many parts of teh world. Isn't that terror. It is only post 9/11 that the world has started calling these freedom fighters as terrorists. Such a big change so sudden? You seem educated. Atleast differentiate between biased reporting and the reality.

[quote]

Your argument about smal country etc. is bogus. Taiwan is a small country fighting for survival against monster China, but it doesn't teach kids that mainlanders are evil and they should go and kill them all. Instead, it is a beacon of education and prosperity, even as it maintains a tense fight with mainland.

[/quote]

There is no comparison of China and Taiwan with India and Pakistan. Be realistic! There are no Taiwanese suffering in China or vice versa. It is not a religious issue either. In our case it is an unfinished business of partition.

[quote]

If Pakistan has to train kids to fight, what are its million man army and services for?

[/quote]

I have never seen kids fighting. Oops...!! maybe you mixed up some African conflicts with ours.

[quote]

One final suggestion, if you don't have the ability to discuss using facts and stats, stay out and let us adults handle it.
[/quote]

Mr Smart, "Facts" guy, lets see if you escape what i have said our really face the reality.

I enjoyed kicking everyones butt pre and post partition in Pak studies. Don't take that away from our young generations and tell them the truth that we lost all three wars with India.

[QUOTE]
If Pakistan has to train kids to fight, what are its million man army and services for?
[/QUOTE]

The million man army is a conscripted army not volunteer like U.S.
maybe I missed the teaching kids to fight part but are you referring to N.C.C? If so that training is a joke. It is nothing but how to get an extra 20 points and we'll teach you how to parade (thats all). You'll learn more about army in Cadet Colleges and J.C.B.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_20-9-2004_pg7_24


Pakistani children being trained for war

Staff Report

ISLAMABAD: **Children in Pakistan are being trained and used in armed conflicts according to a report by the Society for the Protection of the Rights of the Child (SPARC) **

The SPARC report expressed disappointment over the fact that Pakistan has not yet ratified the optional protocol to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) on the involvement of children in armed conflicts. Article 38 of the UNCRC states that, “no child below the age of 15 shall have any part in hostilities or shall be recruited in the armed forces. States shall also ensure the protection and care of children who are affected by armed conflicts as described in international laws”.

The report observed that Pakistani children had suffered worst form of violence after US invaded Afghanistan in 2001. **“Recruitment of children continued despite the government’s attempts to curb the use of madrassas (seminaries) as breeding grounds for jihadis. Factors including poverty, unemployment, adventure, physical punishment, religious glory and feeling of being powerful at a young age prompt children to join the jihadi outfits that manage many of the madrassa networks,” the report said.

It claimed that there were over 70,000 madrassas in Pakistan and some were still involved in recruiting thousands of children to fight in Afghanistan and Kashmir.**

The report appreciated government’s madrassas Reforms plan that would spend millions of dollars on modernising some 8,000 seminaries despite the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal’s (MMA) disapproval.

According to the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF), over 40 million children around the world are displaced. The UNICEF estimates that more than two million children have died in conflicts, six million have been maimed and more than a million orphaned over the past ten years.

The SPARC report said: “Children are also recruited by political factions, various sects and nationalist movements to wage an internecine war inside the country. Boys as young as 14 have been victims of such conflicts in Pakistan. In sectarian conflicts, young boys are recruited to kill members of opposing groups.”


http://www.worldandi.com/public/2001/December/jihad.html


Pakistan’s jihad hatcheries

    In a few moments chatting with them, I quickly learned that **their major topic of study was jihad, or holy war. The nearly 2,000 students expect to fight infidels in Chechnya, Afghanistan, Palestine, or Indian Kashmir once they complete their studies at the madrasah, located inside the walls of the old city of Lahore. **

    This school and others like it have prospered in recent years, in part because of the failure of the state-run educational system. In Pakistan, the illiteracy rate among adults is estimated at 70 percent. 

About 1.75 million students are enrolled in the schools, though it is not clear how many of the academies are devoted to preparing their students for jihad. Some may focus only on religious studies. It is certain, however, that each time the repressive Islamic Taliban regime in Afghanistan needs to mount a spring offensive against its rebel opponents, tens of thousands of students from Pakistani madrasahs pour over the border in trucks to join the jihad, according to reports in the Jane’s defense publications. **Thus, the system of madrasahs has become a hatchery for tens of thousands of Islamic militants who have spread conflict around the world. Incidents in the Philippines, Indonesia, Russia, Central Asia, and at New York’s World Trade Center have all been linked to graduates of the madrasahs. Indeed, Pakistan is terrorism’s fertile garden. **

    Khuddamuddin is run by Mohammed Ajmal Qadri, leader of one of the three branches of the fundamentalist Jamiat Ulema Islam party, who told me that **nearly 13,000 trained jihad fighters have passed through his school. At least 2,000 of them were in or on their way to Indian-held Kashmir. **

    **"Most kids here go for jihad, and I will too, God willing," said 14-year-old Obeidulla Anwer, speaking in Urdu through a translator. "Jihad is to fight for Islam and the pride of Islam." **
   ** Like most of his classmates, he will leave the school at about age 18 and go to a military training camp in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, Afghanistan, or some other secret location. After that training, he said, "We go to fight in Kashmir, Chechnya, Palestine, Afghanistan." **
    Asked whether he was prepared to hurt or kill, the delicate, dark boy said: "I will hurt those who are enemies of Islam. And I know that I could be hurt or killed." 
    The chances that Obeidulla will die violently are high. A 23-year-old fighter with another Islamic militant group, Hizbul Mujahideen, said that five of the eight young men in his squad had died during his 18 months of fighting against Indian troops in Kashmir, where an estimated  

Poverty breeds pupils: Poor Pakistanis, such as these in Rawalpindi, are eager to have their boys attend a madrasah, which provides free education, room, and board. 30,000 people have died in civil strife since 1989.
**Obeidulla was asked how he would recognize the enemies of Islam. “If I greet them with ‘Salam Aleikum’ and they won’t say it back,” he answered. ** :rolleyes:


How come you never captured or martyred any kids in Kashmir? Seems like dialytimes is owned by you.