"Pak Studies" was taught in a very very biased way.

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

As is usal with an Indian talking about pakistan, Mr T, u’ve forgotten the state of affairs in ur own backyard. As of yet Indian text book s are extremely anti-Muslim.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/6-25-2004-55919.asp

The “saffronisation” of history, say critics of the last government, depicted India’s Muslim rulers as barbarous invaders and the medieval period as a dark age of Islamic colonial rule which snuffed out the glories of the Hindu empire that preceded it.

Memorably, one textbook claimed that the Taj Mahal, the Qu’tb Minar and the Red Fort, three of India’s outstanding examples of Islamic architecture, were designed and commissioned by Hindus.

Most controversial was the book History of India, by the country’s foremost historian, Romila Thapar. This concluded that the “Aryans”, venerated by the Hindu right as indigenous geniuses who created the Indus Valley civilisation, were nomadic tribes who spread from the Middle East.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/131/story_13139.html

In the BJP-ruled Gujarat state, for instance, high school textbooks praised Hindu culture to the detriment of others. The social studies textbook for the ninth-grade equivalent class all but lauded the much-derided caste system. “The Varna system was a precious gift of the Aryans to the mankind,” it said, referring to the four-tier caste hierarchy. " … The importance of the ‘Varna’ system as an ideal system of building the social and economic structure of a society cannot be overlooked."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/04/16/MNGFV6530M1.DTL

In class, students are “subtly indoctrinated into the RSS Hindutva ideology,” said Sudarshan Das, president of Agami Orissa, an umbrella organization of nongovernmental organizations working with tribal peoples.

Infact instead of me continuing to post links why dont I just post the one link that tells of religous rights abuses in education in BOTH India and Pakistan:

Educating to Hate:The impact of fundamentalist ideas on the school text books in India and Pakistan

Shutting ur trap right about now wouldnt be such a bad idea.

22

not that it means anything but that last reference I provided gives many more links on india then on Pakistan, just in case talwar was thinking of posting more links. :rolleyes:

23

Abuse of History in Pakistan: Bangladesh to Kargil

By Yvette Rosser

24

nicols_john:

Are u comletetely brain dead? Instead of showcasing ur googling skills why dont you display some common sense. I have given enough link regarding both Pakistan and India in my last post, if giving links is the only contriibution u feel u can make, then I suggest u stick to just reading posts instead of writing them.

25

Picard,

You’d be shocked to know that the BJP’s attempt at saffronization of Indian textbooks failed miserbaly. But then again, why let facts stand in the way of a pathetic argument. :rolleyes:

We have laws, parliaments and the voters decided to get rid that ideology of hate in India.

The BJP tried changing textbooks between 2000 and 2002 and lost elections.

Do you really want to compare a failed attempt on the Indian side, versus a 30+ year long government sponsored campaign on your side that has been and still continues to teach hate to your kids?

Ever heard of comparing apples to apples? :wink:

26

So if a modern liberal Muslim says such and such textbook has such and such words in page 55, it makes it wrong?

Those are FACTS. You cannot deny that your textbooks say:

  1. Hindus are bad people

  2. Hinduism is a bad religion

  3. Hindus live and worship in dark places

  4. Quran is forced to non-Muslims

  5. Only Hindus killed Muslims during partition while Muslims did not kill Sikhs and Hindus.

Tomorrow if a liberal Muslim says that Sun is hot, you’ll claim that it is icy cold? Wow what a logic! :rolleyes:

I READ the SDPI report cover to cover. I’ll post you page after page with specific quotes form specific pages in text books.

Unless you can get me those same textbooks and prove that they say something different, you have lost the argument then and there.

Do you claim that your textbooks do not say the above? :rolleyes:

27

Talwar
Actually the references I provided are of EXISTING textbooks and not at any failed attempts. But why let actually reading someone's post stop you from ur insatiable urges at slamming the reply button?

[QUOTE]
We have laws, parliaments and the voters decided to get rid that ideology of hate in India.
Do you really want to compare a failed attempt on the Indian side, versus a 30+ year long government sponsored campaign on your side that has been and still continues to teach hate to your kids?

[/QUOTE]

Umm....u know I DID provide references. And u reply with what? ur word? duuh...ok

[QUOTE]
Ever heard of comparing apples to apples?
[/QUOTE]

Ever heard of READING the other guys references?

28

Agent Smith,

Here are some specifics:

  1. Hindu has always been an enemy of Islam. (Urdu Class V, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, March 2002, p 108)

  2. The religion of the Hindus did not teach them good things -- Hindus did not respect women... (Muasherati Ulum for Class IV, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, 1995, p 8)

  3. Hindus worship in temples which are very narrow and dark places, where they worship idols. Only one person can enter the temple at a time. In our mosques, on the other hand, all Muslims can say their prayers together. (Muasherati Ulum for Class V, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, 1996, p 1)

  4. Unlike Islam, Hinduism teaches social evils (Social Studies Class VI, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, March 2002: p 59)

  5. “The Hindus lived in small and dark houses. Child marriage is common in Hindu society." (Social Studies Class VI, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, March 2002: p 67)

  6. Hindu pundits were jealous of Al Beruni. Since they could not compete against Al Beruni in knowledge, they started calling him a magician. (Social Studies Class VIII, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, March 2002, p 82)

  7. Hindus very cunningly succeeded in making the British believe that the Muslims were solely responsible for the [1857] rebellion. (Social Studies Class VIII, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, March 2002, p 90)

  8. The Hindus praised the British rule and its blessings in their speeches

  9. Therefore in order to appease the Hindus and the Congress, the British announced political reforms. Muslims were not eligible to vote. Hindus voter never voted for a Muslim, (A sheer lie) - (Social Studies Class VIII, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, March 2002, p 94-95)

  10. Hindus declared the Congress rule as the Hindu rule, and started to unleash terror on Muslims.(Social Studies, Class VIII – Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore. March 2002, p 104)

  11. At the behest of the government [during the Congress rule], Hindu “goondas” started killing Muslims and burning their property. But Muslims never attacked Hindus. ( Social Studies, Class VIII – Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore. March 2002, p 104-105)

  12. In Hindu society Women are assigned a low position in society. (Social Studies Class VI, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, March 2002: p 67)

13.In India the killing of shudras is not punished, but the murder of a Brahman was a serious crime. (Social Studies Class VI, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, March 2002: p 67-68)

  1. While the Muslims provided all type of help to those wishing to leave Pakistan, the people of India committed cruelties against the Muslims (refugees). They would attack the buses, trucks, and trains carrying the Muslim refugees and they were murdered and looted. (Social Studies Class VI, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, March 2002: p 85)

  2. After 1965 war India conspired with the Hindus of Bengal and succeeded in spreading hate among the Bengalis about West Pakistan and finally attacked on East Pakistan in December 71, thus causing the breakup of East and West Pakistan. (ASocial Studies (in Urdu) Class- V, Punjab Textbook Board, Lahore, p 112)

29

hmmm

this is an endless topic

what do you guys suggest SHOULD the pak studies syllabus and agenda be then? how shud it treat topics such as two nation theory, differences b/w hindus and muslims which led to partition of the subcontinent…?

btw it doesnt say that all hindus r bad

**Talwar ** :frusty: sigh

30

yar talwaray, why do you ignore me?

31

Did you even read the above quotes? :rolleyes:

Did it say “some Hindus are bad”?

32

talwara isnt helping the hindus’ case though

buddy talwaray? why do u continue to ignore my references of Indian text books ? WHY? :konfused:

Its almost as if ur not my friend anymore. nah! :hehe:

33

Not at all miyan. Reply is on the way.

Let’s look at your links:

  1. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/04/16/MNGFV6530M1.DTL

This is about what is being taught in a private, non-government funded RSS school. You cannot compare that to official, government sponsored textbooks for public education. Compare RSS to a madrassa school for relevance.

  1. Educating to Hate: The impact of fundamentalist ideas on school books in India and Pakistan | www.sacw.net

This deals with the official NCERT, the agency that writes textbooks for Central board schools in India.

The new HRD minister Arjun Singh has fired everyone of the BJP appointees. All textbooks changed in the last 5 years will now be reviewed and brought back to the old.

Can you say apples and oranges?

34

well it took u long enuff. was getting worried for a minute.

ACtually u forgot to ‘look’ at two links.

Really? Are u sure about that? Are u saying that each article on that page deals only with the BJP’s handling of text books? I suggest u reply carefully and not embarrass urself further.

without getting into a debate about how effective the changes will be since we can both only speculate on that, u do then agree that as of now text books in both countries are biased?

Can u say “Reading References” again

35

Please post quotes, specific ones, and I’ll respond. Don’t expect me to do your research for you.

Nope.

Compare:

In Pakistan, all governments since 1971 have systematically sought to preach hate against non-Muslims, forced non-Muslims to learn Islam, denigrate other faiths, glorify violence against non-Muslims. But so far, no government nor a public movement has tried to cleanse the textbooks or even remove the most blatant hate speech. 35 years of nonstop hate and still it continues.

In India, a small group of people tried to edit textbooks to promote a right wing Hindu agenda in 2001-2002. They made some changes, to be sure, but the people who did that were voted out thumpingly by the Indian voters. Now the new government has promised to review the books, set up a review committee and quickly accepted the rejection of BJP sponsored textbooks within 3 months!

See the difference? Also see:

**Old history books from next year **](http://www.hindu.com/2004/07/21/stories/2004072112041200.htm)

By Our Special Correspondent

NEW DELHI, JULY 20. The history textbooks — replaced by the Murli Manohar Joshi regime — are set to stage a comeback. The Government today decided to restore them from the 2005-06 academic session as prescribed texts while bringing them in as reference material for the ongoing session.

The National Council of Educational Research and Training (NCERT) has also been asked to revise the National Curriculum Framework for School Education (NCFSE) and undertake a quick review of textbooks for other subjects brought out by the previous dispensation so that corrective steps can be taken before the next academic session.

This was disclosed by the Union Human Resource Development (HRD) Minister, Arjun Singh, in the Lok Sabha this evening; a day after the Executive Committee of the National Council of Educational Research and Training (NCERT) accepted the report of the Committee of Historians set up by the Ministry to undertake a quick review of the history textbooks currently in use.

Accepting the Committee of Historians’ finding that ``the history books were biased, badly written and full of inaccuracies rendering them unsuitable for continuation,‘’ the NCERT Executive Committee decided that from the academic session 2005-06, the earlier books of history would be restored with appropriate modifications in line with the existing curriculum and minor corrections wherever required.

History books panel suggests alternative books

By Our Staff Correspondent

NEW DELHI, JULY 6. With the three-member "quick review’’ committee recommending alternative textbooks for the National Council for Educational Research and Training (NCERT) history courses, the Ministry of Human Resource Development (HRD) appears to be in a fix on how to go about the process of "switch over’’ if the suggestions are accepted.

The report, covering history textbooks from Class VI to Class X, says that the books were "full of errors and sub-standard’’ and needed to be either replaced or amended at the earliest. It also suggests that the teachers and the schools could also be allowed to decide on whether they would want the old books or the new set of books to be adopted to allow minimum disruption to the students.

"Having received the first report from the committee, we (Ministry) now have to put our heads together to work out a strategy on how best to make the corrections without traumatising the students,‘’ the Union Education Secretary, B.S. Baswan, told reporters here today.

"We are acutely conscious of the aspirations of the students and want to thoroughly study the logistics and the timing to minimise confusion,‘’ he said.

36

[QUOTE]
Please post quotes, specific ones, and I'll respond. Don't expect me to do your research for you.

[/QUOTE]

Actually u said that my link only had info on the BJP's short rule. It was u who made that statement about the reference I gave. Now I am asking you are u sure? You response shows insecurity and indicates ur not sure, but I want u to state it explicitly. It would make my replies more fun. I am not asking you to do any research. Just to confirm what u said. Are u so insecure that u cant even do that? :)

[QUOTE]

quote:

without getting into a debate about how effective the changes will be since we can both only speculate on that, u do then agree that as of now text books in both countries are biased?

Nope.

[/QUOTE]

U not only lack in thinking but also in in comprehension. The lines following ur smug 'nope' indicate that AT THE MOMENT indian books ARE biased. Whether they will 'speedily' be changed wasnt what I asked. Man u do love to squirm. but dont stop on my account, thats what makes this so much fun.

37

Why do you guys start bringing India and America into this? This post doesn't concern any of their education systems or whatever they teach in their history books.

Why don't they teach Pakistan studies with the truth? Ok forget truth, how about an objective look at things? Pakistan is an Islamic country, and us Muslims are taught that our religion and it's followers are superior to everyone. Is a biased view of history something "Superior" people study?

38

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
so why dont you go live in your beloved india and leave pakistan and pakistanis alone.
[/QUOTE]

A little insecure are we?

39

[QUOTE]
Why do you guys start bringing India and America into this? This post doesn't concern any of their education systems or whatever they teach in their history books.

Why don't they teach Pakistan studies with the truth? Ok forget truth, how about an objective look at things? Pakistan is an Islamic country, and us Muslims are taught that our religion and it's followers are superior to everyone. Is a biased view of history something "Superior" people study?
[/QUOTE]

lol. Actually many people here have agreed that yes many countries including Pakistan give a biased view of history. Now u and mr T there are getting all red in the face and not accepting that any other country, such as India, is also guilty. What u ineffect want to say is that Pakistan and only pakistan is guilty, and dont look anywhere else. If you were really sincere, you would say 'yes India's education system is also biased and move on'. Your squirming, apart from being very amusing, its also very pathetic.

40

[QUOTE]
A little insecure are we?
[/QUOTE]

look whos talking, the guy whos whining about us bringing India into the debate.