Pak Indo Friendship possible or not?

Society Military and Strategic Issues
41

Well I replied all of his question in post #23 and #33. And your saying your Sovereign nation, then how come American planes flying in your territory and are bombing Pakistani Army without even declaring any kinna war? (11 Pak soldiers die). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/2111326/Tensions-rise-after-Pakistan-soldiers-are-killed-in-US-bombing-raid.html

First Pakistan Allowed US in order to get military and financial aid in billions and now Americans dont really care for Pakistan. And now Pakistan leaning towards China to keep there country going. Lord knows when China will turn their back against Pakistan.

And regarding the failed state, Any nation is a failed state whose central government is so weak or ineffective that it has little practical control over much of its people and territory. Which happens many time in Pakistan, when a democrated selected Government is thrown and overpowered by Army.

42

Here are a few legitimate questions that your buddies left out:

Its a proxy war that Pakistan fights with US.

Americans never really cared for Pakistan, but they stepped into the mouse-trap when they accepted Pakistan’s proposal to help out in war on Afghanistan. Right now Pakistan has the US & Coalition by the balls, in Afghanistan. This is why a proxy war is being fought - if it was conventional, Pakistan would halt all supplies to US-Coalition in Afghanistan, and common sense would tell you about who would be the loser in that scenario.

Was it this “little practicle control” over people & territory that kept Indian generals from sipping tea in Lahore? Or was it something else? Pakistan’s authorities has full control over the country & people. I would call it a failed democracy, not a failed state.

43

Re: Pak Indo Friendship possible or not?

[quote]
India will feed, provide electricity to, and provide medical facilities to 1 billion people...and you accuse me of dreaming?

Do you know how much electricity India will have to generate in the future...how much fresh water it will need to import...how many public schools it will need to open...how much oil India will need to import. Do you think Europe, America or China will allow you to use up energy resources unchallenged? I'm sorry to say, but you my friend are lost. India will be a unique country...a superpower and a third world country at the sametime.
[/quote]
Global Power crises is not only a India's problem but Its global. India's power consumption is very less as compared to US and China. Also power demand arise due to Industrialization not by local consumption. Most of the manufacturing units are in China not in India (which means China's future energy needs is more then any other country in world). India has enough water resources, all India is require good Water management which i hope will be done in near future.

India may not have enough Uranium or in short run India may have to rely on US, Russia, Canada France and Australia for enriched Uranium but future holds good for India. India has 2nd largest nature stock of Thorium in the world which eventually going to be future Nuclear fuel. India always worked towards sustainability and self reliability. India and US scientist research is going on.. how to harness Thorium for their energy needs.

[quote]
how much oil India will need to import.
[/quote]
Oil is outdated fuel. In India, Ethanol petrol is in use now which eventually is manufactured from Agricultural waste. CNG is other alternate fuel which is in much use in Capital and other metros. And to surprise of all Battery operated Bikes are great demand in Cities. "Hero Cycles" "Ebikes" and "ace motors"..yoo bikes.. are major manufacturers of these battery operated bikes. Transformation dont happen in one day it take decades to completely switch over.

[quote]
Its a proxy war that Pakistan fights with US.
[/quote]
India has been victim of proxy war or u can say state sponsored terrorism. I want to know..how Pakistan is feeling now with Proxy war fighting in their own backyard.

[quote]
Americans never really cared for Pakistan, but they stepped into the mouse-trap when they accepted Pakistan's proposal to help out in war on Afghanistan. Right now Pakistan has the US & Coalition by the balls, in Afghanistan. This is why a proxy war is being fought - if it was conventional, Pakistan would halt all supplies to US-Coalition in Afghanistan, and common sense would tell you about who would be the loser in that scenario.
[/quote]
Pakistan would be loser if they pull out from this war:
1) US going to stop giving military and financial AID to Pakistan.
2) US may bomb Pakistan like he did in IRAQ and Afghanistan. Pakistan really dont have any choice but to say yes to US.
3) If anyone go by US congress report then you will find that Pakistan is a nursery for terrorist which India knows from much before.

44

IPundit...it seems to me that in order to save face you typed a whole lot of crap but did not state anything with weight behind it.

  • Incase you are confused...I clearly stated that India will become two states within one...one a superpower and the other a third world country. I stated that it will be impossible for India to be a decent country in its entirety. You then rambled on about the fact that your population is your biggest asset...which population are you referring to?...to the rich Indians or to the 800 million Indians who do not have access to washrooms and are forced to do their business in bushes. India my friend is in a catch 22 situation...at one side of the spectrum there are rich Indians who will get richer due to the slave labor of the rest of the population. On the other side of the spectrum there are 850 million more Indians that live under $2 a day. Hence, like I said before ...India - two nations within one...one nation prosperous, rich, educated...another nation...slaves, dirt poor, uneducated. India can not print money with impunity, hence how much of its money will it allocate towards the richer/middle classes and how much will it allocate towards the poor. India can not direct its entire resources towards the 800+ million poor because if it takes such an action its settled middle class base will suffer immensely. Hence India is damned if it does and damned if they don't...take some finance courses...you will then understand the impossible predicament that India will be in...Hence my basis for two countries within India...one dirt poor and one rich. That’s the only point I have been making in all my posts.

  • You spoke about your military. I agree that India will be a military power. Its middle class/rich class of 500 - 600 million people will be able to purchase fantastic toys with ease. I am not arguing about that. As I said before India will be a superpower and a third world country all together.

  • My friend regarding your Muslim- Indian relations...I would just like to say that I am a Muslim first and Pakistani second. I would not like to question the patriotism of Muslim Indians but I would like to say that my Indian Muslim friends in Canada aren't exactly fond of India...with that said they may not represent the entire population. But if you are going to say that there are no communal tensions between Hindus and Muslims then you are a flat out liar...what I have heard is different.

  • I agree that MNC's are investing bunch loads in India...they will continue to do so...but are they investing enough to make a minority rich or the entire country.

Regarding your comment on the fact that Pakistan is a third world country. I find that amusing because statistical figures prove otherwise. India has one of the highest...if not the highest murder rates in the world. India's murder rate is at least 4 times more than Pakistan’s despite all the recent terrorism in Pakistan. Pakistan has a much higher doctor/civilian ratio than India. Pakistan has a better transportation system than India. Pakistan has more natural resources than India. Pakistan's middle class may not be as large as India's nor will it ever be, but overall the average Pakistani is far better off than the average Indian. In India 10% of the population accounts for 35% of the wealth...in Pakistan wealth is more evenly distributed. India has far more separatist movements than Pakistan, and these separatist movements do not have end in sight while in Pakistan we have quelled and ended these movements.

Furthermore I don't care about what these international magazines say about us. These are the same magazines that said we had the world’s best performing stock exchange two times in the past few years. It's no secret that the western world does not like Pakistan...and you know why...because unlike India we do not worship the gori chamri. India tries to emulate its entire system towards the white way of life. Of course you flatter the whites, they find it amusing and flattering that an entire country wants to be just like them...no wonder fair and lovely does so well there. In contrast Pakistan does not emulate the western world nor do we find their way of life as being superior to ours. That is why the western world is always on Pakistan's case. They want Pakistan to be subservient to them. They don't need India's subservience because they know that India wants to be just like them...India is not a leader it is a follower while Pakistan is bold and consistently tries to create its own niche.

Yes, India does indeed have relations with various countries around the world...but these relations are economic based. India has nothing in common with Japan, Russia, or the U.S, the relation is purely economical. Relationships based on economics are dispensable. Pakistan on the other hand as economic relations and cultural relationship with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E...Relationship’s that are far deeper then any of India's relationships. Indians do not have a second home while Pakistanis have many second homes. Furthermore relationships change every decade or so. Twenty years ago, Americans and Muslims walked side by side, and now they are clashing with each other. Perhaps in ten years new alliances will be forged. You must remember that India was called a state of barbarians in the U.S congress twenty odd years ago. Lastly Pakistan does not depend on the U.S...The U.S depends on Pakistan. If Pakistan depended on the U.S then why would we need convincing to follow what the Americans want us to do. America needs us desperately and that is why they threaten us with military force. Despite these threats we have not budged. I would again like to clarify, that the western world dislikes Pakistan because we have our own identity and we are not willing to surrender it for the western way of life. India on the other hand has surrendered her identity and is aching to be accepted by the western world. Furthermore Americans have billions invested in India. The only reason why India’s economy started to boom was because of American corporations. How can you say that Pakistan is dependent on America when our economy is not based on their investment.

This is a very long post. I want to add more, but I am afraid people will not read it if I make it longer. I will end this post with one last point....

Pakistan was left with no infrastructure, no military etc after the partition while India was left with sizable infrastructure etc etc. As a Pakistani I am proud that as a country we have gotten so far...I am only sad because we could have gone a lot further. Pakistan has no fears when staring India in the eye despite the size difference while India is terrified of staring China - (a country it's size) directly in the eye. You may not have anything to prove to us...and I respect that...but we do not have anything to prove to you either. We know that the average Pakistani is far superior to the average Indian.

India will indeed be a superpower...but it will also be a haven for the world's poor.

45

What a pakwash you are!

46

haha, I agree.

47

u have zero knowledge regarding economy and international relations there fore the garbage u have posted is stinking...

my friend if two dollar theorey of poverty is taken as benchmark ur mai-baap china has 380 million people living under poverty as per worldbank(theory does not apply to those nations which provide haevy food subsidies to the poor) our food subsidy is higher than defence budget for ur information.

may i ask u wat is common between a pork eating china and the land of the pure??

tell me now who is afraid of who??

i dont know wat indian muslims think about india in canada iam least botherd..
kindly go through urdu press in india to know wat they think of pakistan and how they ridicule the two nation theory...

48

...blah blah blah...that's how much your comments are worth. By the way I never said there anything common between China and Pakistan. Also I have no idea what your trying to convey in the rest of your post. You typed a whole lot but nothing that makes sense...the fact that your food subsidy is higher than your defence budget does not void the fact that there are 850 million poor Indians.

Regardless this particular thread is now turning in to mud slinging contest. My initial post/point was that whithin India there will be two nations...one rich and one poor. You Indians may disagree and I respect your perspective. I have my perspective and you have yours. You may not value my perspective on India and I may not value your perspective on Pakistan...lets leave it at that.

49

a nation that grows at 8-9 percent evry year lifts millions out of poverty...do u know the growth rate of india ???

we have lifted approx 150 million out of poverty in the last decade...the number is comming down with evry successive year...therefore ur analogy of 500 million remaining in poverty is falacious...

get the economics right befrore commenting about india...

poverty shall be managble in the next couple of decades as the nation is expanding at a rate of 9 percent per annum...

50

Re: Pak Indo Friendship possible or not?

[QUOTE]
IPundit...it seems to me that in order to save face you typed a whole lot of crap but did not state anything with weight behind it.

  • Incase you are confused...I clearly stated that India will become two states within one...one a superpower and the other a third world country. I stated that it will be impossible for India to be a decent country in its entirety. You then rambled on about the fact that your population is your biggest asset...which population are you referring to?...to the rich Indians or to the 800 million Indians who do not have access to washrooms and are forced to do their business in bushes. India my friend is in a catch 22 situation...at one side of the spectrum there are rich Indians who will get richer due to the slave labor of the rest of the population. On the other side of the spectrum there are 850 million more Indians that live under $2 a day. Hence, like I said before ...India - two nations within one...one nation prosperous, rich, educated...another nation...slaves, dirt poor, uneducated. India can not print money with impunity, hence how much of its money will it allocate towards the richer/middle classes and how much will it allocate towards the poor. India can not direct its entire resources towards the 800+ million poor because if it takes such an action its settled middle class base will suffer immensely. Hence India is damned if it does and damned if they don't...take some finance courses...you will then understand the impossible predicament that India will be in...Hence my basis for two countries within India...one dirt poor and one rich. That’s the only point I have been making in all my posts.

  • You spoke about your military. I agree that India will be a military power. Its middle class/rich class of 500 - 600 million people will be able to purchase fantastic toys with ease. I am not arguing about that. As I said before India will be a superpower and a third world country all together.

  • My friend regarding your Muslim- Indian relations...I would just like to say that I am a Muslim first and Pakistani second. I would not like to question the patriotism of Muslim Indians but I would like to say that my Indian Muslim friends in Canada aren't exactly fond of India...with that said they may not represent the entire population. But if you are going to say that there are no communal tensions between Hindus and Muslims then you are a flat out liar...what I have heard is different.

  • I agree that MNC's are investing bunch loads in India...they will continue to do so...but are they investing enough to make a minority rich or the entire country.

Regarding your comment on the fact that Pakistan is a third world country. I find that amusing because statistical figures prove otherwise. India has one of the highest...if not the highest murder rates in the world. India's murder rate is at least 4 times more than Pakistan’s despite all the recent terrorism in Pakistan. Pakistan has a much higher doctor/civilian ratio than India. Pakistan has a better transportation system than India. Pakistan has more natural resources than India. Pakistan's middle class may not be as large as India's nor will it ever be, but overall the average Pakistani is far better off than the average Indian. In India 10% of the population accounts for 35% of the wealth...in Pakistan wealth is more evenly distributed. India has far more separatist movements than Pakistan, and these separatist movements do not have end in sight while in Pakistan we have quelled and ended these movements.

Furthermore I don't care about what these international magazines say about us. These are the same magazines that said we had the world’s best performing stock exchange two times in the past few years. It's no secret that the western world does not like Pakistan...and you know why...because unlike India we do not worship the gori chamri. India tries to emulate its entire system towards the white way of life. Of course you flatter the whites, they find it amusing and flattering that an entire country wants to be just like them...no wonder fair and lovely does so well there. In contrast Pakistan does not emulate the western world nor do we find their way of life as being superior to ours. That is why the western world is always on Pakistan's case. They want Pakistan to be subservient to them. They don't need India's subservience because they know that India wants to be just like them...India is not a leader it is a follower while Pakistan is bold and consistently tries to create its own niche.

Yes, India does indeed have relations with various countries around the world...but these relations are economic based. India has nothing in common with Japan, Russia, or the U.S, the relation is purely economical. Relationships based on economics are dispensable. Pakistan on the other hand as economic relations and cultural relationship with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E...Relationship’s that are far deeper then any of India's relationships. Indians do not have a second home while Pakistanis have many second homes. Furthermore relationships change every decade or so. Twenty years ago, Americans and Muslims walked side by side, and now they are clashing with each other. Perhaps in ten years new alliances will be forged. You must remember that India was called a state of barbarians in the U.S congress twenty odd years ago. Lastly Pakistan does not depend on the U.S...The U.S depends on Pakistan. If Pakistan depended on the U.S then why would we need convincing to follow what the Americans want us to do. America needs us desperately and that is why they threaten us with military force. Despite these threats we have not budged. I would again like to clarify, that the western world dislikes Pakistan because we have our own identity and we are not willing to surrender it for the western way of life. India on the other hand has surrendered her identity and is aching to be accepted by the western world. Furthermore Americans have billions invested in India. The only reason why India’s economy started to boom was because of American corporations. How can you say that Pakistan is dependent on America when our economy is not based on their investment.

This is a very long post. I want to add more, but I am afraid people will not read it if I make it longer. I will end this post with one last point....

Pakistan was left with no infrastructure, no military etc after the partition while India was left with sizable infrastructure etc etc. As a Pakistani I am proud that as a country we have gotten so far...I am only sad because we could have gone a lot further. Pakistan has no fears when staring India in the eye despite the size difference while India is terrified of staring China - (a country it's size) directly in the eye. You may not have anything to prove to us...and I respect that...but we do not have anything to prove to you either. We know that the average Pakistani is far superior to the average Indian.

India will indeed be a superpower...but it will also be a haven for the world's poor.
[/QUOTE]

well..u and u'r negativity...

India v Australia 2012 - T20I and ODI series
51

:).........OK here we go ...........all POSITIVE........:)

Pakistan should reach out and re-Join and have common borders with ex East Pakistan...Bangladesh.............:biggthumb

HOW POSITIVE IS THAT.......Just Like Aurengzeb Alamgir Had........Truly POSITIVE.......:biggthumb

52

:D:biggthumb

53

Re: Pak Indo Friendship possible or not?

i think it wil be possible but in a long time .

54

India's power consumption is very less compared to US & China because India is far behind USA & China in terms of industrialization & removing poverty. And if you think you can live in this world without industrializing, then good luck!
Most of the manufacturing units are in China, because China is decades ahead of India and has more to offer to investors/producers. The reason why they are not in India is because (like I said earlier), China is more industrialized. If India wants to progress beyond China, the power demand will be high & continue to rise for a long time. If you want limited progress (i.e. no development in the daalit world), then yes, the demand may not be as much for as long.

How many rivers for a billion people?

What is the progress on this research? How can you be so sure that the future holds good for India? What if this project fails?

Can't disagree on this part. Automotives in this region (including Pakistan) seems to have found alternate energy sources. Where will India get CNG from?

That is not the question at hand. The real question is, how are you feeling now, knowing that India is a failed state (since it is a victim of proxy war), because according to your theory, a country is not sovereign if it gets attacked (with or without declaration of war).

Pakistan doesn't really need the financial aid that USA has to offer. If US stops giving military aid, Pakistan will not have to buy gunships & related defence equipment to fight Taliban/Al-Qaeda at the borders.

I think you are forgetting that Pakistan has nuclear weapons, unlike Iraq & Afghanistan, and the means to deliver them to the surrounding regions.

Pakistan has many choices - it can easily destroy American interests & bases in the region. It can give nuke to Iran, further destroying US plans in the region.

The prominent point of the question that you have avoided is, what will USA/NATO do with a large force in Afghanistan that is isolated and landlocked ? Will it wage more war or will it come to terms with Pakistan.

You mean.. the same congress that was convinced that there are WMD in Iraq? HA HA! I've said it before.. the organizations/institution have their own political agendas. Why don't you bring us such reports from neutral countries (that are not involved in Pakistani politics)?

Now, I know of many more seperatists factions (or terrorists as you may call them) in India. I mean, many more than in Pakistan. Wouldn't that make India a larger nursery of terrorists? Should I list them, or do you already know who they are? :)

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????