Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
^ welcome back bro, we do need a pakhtun voice in the forum as its missing and what ever is happening these days concern them and affect them the most.
Thank, bro. Glad to see that you are moderator. We need more patriots stepping up for Pakistan.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
Thank you. If the fact that Pakhtun tribes have fought in every war for Pakistan was not enough, we continue to maintain the territorial integrity of Pakistan.
I have always called for the empowerment of the tribes: Give the Wazirs, Afridis, Mohmands the necessary firepower and its all over...of course we know that won't happen because of the bigger game that Islamabad is playing. The word cannon fodder comes to mind.
Don't get me wrong, I am not bitter, still proud to be Pakistani.
Didn't some tribes in FATA used to have seats in the afghan loya jirga (pre-eighties) and get money from both Pakistan and afghanistan? Wazirs, for example, are in both pakistan and afghanistan so i think they would be less inclined to fight over the border.
You have to remember that unlike the popular narrative of afridis fighting in kashmir, for better or worse since their unorganized ways lost us srinagar, there was a minor rebellion by the afridis? near the border with afghanistan so much so that the nascent PAF couldn't be deployed in kashmir.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
I was waiting for Pakhtun haters and other racists to come out of the woodwork. Congratulations for being the first one.**
Didn't some tribes in FATA used to have seats in the afghan loya jirga (pre-eighties) and get money from both Pakistan and afghanistan? Wazirs, for example, are in both pakistan and afghanistan so i think they would be less inclined to fight over the border.
**What does what happened in the 80s have to do with the fact that the tribes repulsed ANA's attack into Pakistani territory? If you were right about not caring about the borders then this situation would have not occurred. I don't follow your logic here.
You have to remember that unlike the popular narrative of afridis fighting in kashmir, for better or worse since their unorganized ways lost us srinagar, there was a minor rebellion by the afridis? near the border with afghanistan so much so that the nascent PAF couldn't be deployed in kashmir.
Oh now we're going back to 1947-8? What does the Kashmir issue have to do with the 2012 AfPak border? I'll be happy to discuss the Pakhtun involvement in Kashmir on a separate thread so feel free to create one. You have an incorrect understanding of history.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
Why cant we mine/fence the area & regulate flow of people on either direction?
First of all it is impossible to fence the entire durand line. Secondly it would be very inhuman to mine the border. Thirdly it is not diwar-e-brehman, same people live on both sides of this imaginary line.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
Thank you. If the fact that Pakhtun tribes have fought in every war for Pakistan was not enough, we continue to maintain the territorial integrity of Pakistan.I have always called for the empowerment of the tribes: Give the Wazirs, Afridis, Mohmands the necessary firepower and its all over...of course we know that won't happen because of the bigger game that Islamabad is playing. The word cannon fodder comes to mind.Don't get me wrong, I am not bitter, still proud to be Pakistani.
Due to talibanization factor , empowerment of FATA tribes is out of question. Beside 1948 war i dont remember any tribal lashkars helping pak army in 1965, 1971 and kargil war. But yes tribals were used as cannon fodder in russo-afghan war. Simple-minded tribals were modified into religous extremists and jihadis by pakistani agencies and they were told to harbour foriegn mujaheedins as their guests. Nowadays they are getting bombed and killed for being talibans by same pak army who turned them into such creatures in the first place. The whole purpose of turning us into religous extremists was to suppress pashtun nationalistic feelings due to paronia of pakhtunistan but look what has it resulted into...talibans...suicide bomb blasts... Its not that pashtuns were very active in pakistan movement. They ended up in pakistan and they accepted thereselves as pakistanis and as by nature they are "mukhlis", "wafadar" and "namak-halal" people so they did'nt turned against the state despite of the fact that they had every reason to join their afghan brothers. Our level of "pakistaniyat" can not be on par with mohajirs and punjabis. The simple fact that we are loyal to the country and integrated into it should be enough.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
I was waiting for Pakhtun haters and other racists to come out of the woodwork. Congratulations for being the first one.Didn't some tribes in FATA used to have seats in the afghan loya jirga (pre-eighties) and get money from both Pakistan and afghanistan? Wazirs, for example, are in both pakistan and afghanistan so i think they would be less inclined to fight over the border.What does what happened in the 80s have to do with the fact that the tribes repulsed ANA's attack into Pakistani territory? If you were right about not caring about the borders then this situation would have not occurred. I don't follow your logic here.You have to remember that unlike the popular narrative of afridis fighting in kashmir, for better or worse since their unorganized ways lost us srinagar, there was a minor rebellion by the afridis? near the border with afghanistan so much so that the nascent PAF couldn't be deployed in kashmir.Oh now we're going back to 1947-8? What does the Kashmir issue have to do with the 2012 AfPak border? I'll be happy to discuss the Pakhtun involvement in Kashmir on a separate thread so feel free to create one. You have an incorrect understanding of history.
You are over-reacting. Dobbleganger mentioned role of pakhtuns in kashmir war because you said in your previous post that tribals had participated in every war of pakistan....If dobbleganger is not trusting tribals then i dont blame him. As we know that faqir of ipi fought against pak army from 1947-1960. Then some tribes refuse to hand over foriegn militants to governament due to melmastia during musharaf times which means they are not entirely obedient.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
this as....le USA putting pressure on Pakistan from all sides.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
I was waiting for Pakhtun haters and other racists to come out of the woodwork. Congratulations for being the first one.**
Didn't some tribes in FATA used to have seats in the afghan loya jirga (pre-eighties) and get money from both Pakistan and afghanistan? Wazirs, for example, are in both pakistan and afghanistan so i think they would be less inclined to fight over the border.
**What does what happened in the 80s have to do with the fact that the tribes repulsed ANA's attack into Pakistani territory? If you were right about not caring about the borders then this situation would have not occurred. I don't follow your logic here.
You have to remember that unlike the popular narrative of afridis fighting in kashmir, for better or worse since their unorganized ways lost us srinagar, there was a minor rebellion by the afridis? near the border with afghanistan so much so that the nascent PAF couldn't be deployed in kashmir.
Oh now we're going back to 1947-8? What does the Kashmir issue have to do with the 2012 AfPak border? I'll be happy to discuss the Pakhtun involvement in Kashmir on a separate thread so feel free to create one. You have an incorrect understanding of history.
Talk about facts and be called a pakhtun hater. You know what, I don't care but do answer them.
Btw, you didn't put a time limit on the "patriotism" of fata tribes so I was offering another perspective that not all of them are the same. Please tell us if there was a revolt in FATA in 1947 (yes or no) and if FATA tribes had seats in afghan loya jirga while being part of Pakistan until the eighties (yes or no). Good luck to those tribes or anyone that actually supports Pakistan.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
Due to talibanization factor , empowerment of FATA tribes is out of question. Beside 1948 war i dont remember any tribal lashkars helping pak army in 1965, 1971 and kargil war. But yes tribals were used as cannon fodder in russo-afghan war. Simple-minded tribals were modified into religous extremists and jihadis by pakistani agencies and they were told to harbour foriegn mujaheedins as their guests. Nowadays they are getting bombed and killed for being talibans by same pak army who turned them into such creatures in the first place. The whole purpose of turning us into religous extremists was to suppress pashtun nationalistic feelings due to paronia of pakhtunistan but look what has it resulted into...talibans...suicide bomb blasts... Its not that pashtuns were very active in pakistan movement. They ended up in pakistan and they accepted thereselves as pakistanis and as by nature they are "mukhlis", "wafadar" and "namak-halal" people so they did'nt turned against the state despite of the fact that they had every reason to join their afghan brothers. Our level of "pakistaniyat" can not be on par with mohajirs and punjabis. The simple fact that we are loyal to the country and integrated into it should be enough.
The Talibanization factor is a clever ruse to deflect the greater game that is being played by the US sponsored governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
The Tribals of FATA have participated in every conflict, disproportionately so. Pakistan's Military's Pakhtun component is largely from the tribal areas (or descended from there). The lahkars were not raised because of the Pakistani Military/Government refusing to integrate them during conflicts related to India. Tribal participation in the conflicts has always been higher than their population size.
I completely agree with your later statement.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
Talk about facts and be called a pakhtun hater. You know what, I don't care but do answer them.
Btw, you didn't put a time limit on the "patriotism" of fata tribes so I was offering another perspective that not all of them are the same. Please tell us if there was a revolt in FATA in 1947 (yes or no) and if FATA tribes had seats in afghan loya jirga while being part of Pakistan until the eighties (yes or no). Good luck to those tribes or anyone that actually supports Pakistan.
Alright I'll play ball.
Sure there was a revolt in FATA based on the fact that the Paksitani government failed to recognize the diversity of the tribe (an agreement with the Wazirs does not equal an agreement with the Afridis) however the vast majority of the tribes accepted and agreed to be part of Pakistan. If they had not, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the Pakistanis to hold on to what is now known as FATA. Backed by a hostile Afghanistan, the Pakistani border would have started on the outskirts of Pekhawar.
I'd like to see proof of these seats in the jirga -- however I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. The tribes FATA are part of the Pakhtun Nation and have common bonds, tribal affinities that exist across the border. Before this war in Afghanistan the border was not a deterrent in crossing back and forth between the countries. Like I said before, if Pakistanis are threatened by this fact then, lets talk about when it counts (during wars, national disasters).
And yes, there is a time limit to the thread. Open up a Kashmir thread and I'll be happy to discuss 1948.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
Militants coming from Afghanistan take scores of villagers hostage in Pakistan - The Washington Post
KHAR, Pakistan — Dozens of militants coming from Afghanistan took scores of villagers hostage in Pakistan’s northwest on Thursday, sparking fighting with the army that killed at least 14 people, Pakistani officials said.
The incident is the latest chapter in a broader infiltration trend that has seen Islamabad railing against Afghan and NATO forces for not doing enough to stop the cross-border attacks, which it says have killed dozens of members of its security forces.
There has been little sympathy from the U.S. and Afghan governments however, which have long complained Pakistan allows sanctuary to militants fighting in Afghanistan, warning Islamabad that instability in the war-torn country poses a threat to it as well.
On Thursday, Taliban gunmen opened fire on a compound in eastern Pakistan housing police trainees, killing nine of them, officials said.
The militants who staged the cross-border attack appeared to be targeting members of an anti-Taliban militia in Kitkot village near Pakistan’s Bajur tribal area, said Tariq Khan, a local government official. They came from Afghanistan’s Kunar province and took hundreds of villagers hostage, including anti-Taliban militiamen, he said.
Hundreds of Pakistani soldiers surrounded the village and killed 12 militants, Khan added. Two militiamen were also killed in the fighting.
Soldiers have retrieved scores of villagers, but dozens more are still held by the militants or trapped in their homes by the fighting, said Khan and two security officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media.
The army called in gunship helicopters for support but have not used them yet for fear of civilian casualties, said Khan.
The information could not be independently verified because the area is largely off-limits to reporters.
The police targeted in the eastern city of Lahore were training to become prison guards, said Habibur Rehman, the chief of police in Punjab province, where Lahore is the capital.
Pakistani Taliban spokesman Ahsanullah Ahsan claimed responsibility for the attack, saying it was revenge for police torture of their fighters in prison. He spoke to The Associated Press by telephone from an undisclosed location.
In addition to the police who were killed, eight were also wounded, said Salman Saddiq, a government official.
One of the wounded, Shafqat Imran, said that eight to 10 attackers, who had their faces hidden behind hoods, stormed into the compound and started shooting randomly. They shouted “God is great,” then shot the policemen one by one, said Imran, speaking from a hospital bed.
The police who were attacked were recruited from northwest Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, a one-time base for the Taliban, and were brought to Lahore for training, said Rehman.
The Pakistani military launched a massive offensive against the Taliban in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa’s Swat Valley in 2009, and many militants were captured and imprisoned.
The leader of the Taliban in Swat, Maulana Fazlullah, escaped and is believed to be based in eastern Afghanistan, where he has been sending fighters back across the border to attack northwest Pakistan.
The Pakistani Taliban have killed thousands of soldiers, police and civilians over the past few years, declaring war on the government to get it to break ties with the United States and establish Islamic law throughout the country.
The government is also facing a decades-long insurgency by nationalists in southwest Baluchistan province who demand greater autonomy and a larger share of the province’s natural resources.
Officials discovered the bodies of six coal miners and a doctor Thursday who went missing on July 7 and are suspected of having been killed by Baluch separatists, said senior government official Naseebullah Bazai.
The latest violence came against the backdrop of serious political instability in Pakistan.
The country’s Supreme Court on Thursday ordered Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf to reopen an old corruption case against President Asif Ali Zardari, a demand that the premier’s predecessor, Yousuf Raza Gilani, ignored, leading the judges to convict him of contempt of court and remove him from office.
Aiming to avoid an identical fate for Ashraf, the ruling coalition pushed a new law through parliament this week that provides the prime minister and other senior government officials with greater protection against being charged with contempt. Zardari signed the bill Thursday, shortly before the Supreme Court hearing, said presidential spokesman Farhatullah Babar.
The opposition criticized the new law as undermining the court’s authority, and the judges have indicated they may strike it down as unconstitutional.
The judges told Attorney General Arfan Qadir during a court session Thursday that the prime minister has until July 25 to write a letter to Swiss authorities asking them to reopen a graft case against Zardari that dates back to the late 1990s, said Fawad Chaudhry, a lawyer for the ruling Pakistan People’s Party.
The government has long refused the court’s demand, claiming the president has immunity from prosecution while in office. Ruling party supporters have accused Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry of relentlessly pursuing the case because of bad blood between him and Zardari.
Associated Press writers Zaheer Babar in Lahore, Pakistan, Abdul Sattar in Quetta, Pakistan, and Asif Shahzad and Munir Ahmed in Islamabad contributed to this report.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
Indeed, US and Afghan govt is doing alot:k:
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
I see Taliban taking over in Afghanistan very soon, nothing is under control of Afghan govt and US! they have failed miserbly!
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
waqa’ii? r u serious? 
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
after US exit, Taliban will take over, perhaps even a civil war. Afghan govt will not last that long
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
after US exit, Taliban will take over, perhaps even a civil war. Afghan govt will not last that long
do you think US will let that go so easily, especially after losing so many lives and assets. it's another story if Talibans will be given another job to keep them busy...paid mercenaries, perhaps!
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
^ even with the Americans there taleban are virtually ruling in eastern Afghanistan and have a very strong presence in the south (Helmand and Kandahar).
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
do you think US will let that go so easily, especially after losing so many lives and assets. it's another story if Talibans will be given another job to keep them busy...paid mercenaries, perhaps!
yes, and that is exactly what will happen. 11 years on and pathetic NATO has still no control of country more than 30-40%.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
^ even the 30-40 percent control they have are in the territories which are controlled by various war lords who are not answerable to Kabul per se.
Re: Pak Afghan Border clashes
As an example. In 2010 the Taliban controlled only 2 districts in my province. Now they control 5 out of a total of 10. Next year its predicted they will control 7 to 8 of them. So yeah they will be back. That is why the US is negotiating with them.