animal cannot give consent. you can possibly cause pain in the animal for the sake of your own sexual desires, therefore it can be viewed as harmful.
...
Forget about having sex which could be very harmless/painless for an animal,....have you ever seen anyone getting consent from an animal before hunting or killing for eating purpose?
How can you tell the animal is not even enjoying it?
Again: Relax here, I am not proposing bestiality as a good act.
If it is all purely about desire, then homosexuality is same as bestiality.
Forget about having sex which could be very harmless/painless for an animal,....have you ever seen anyone getting consent from an animal before hunting or killing for eating purpose?
How can you tell the animal is not even enjoying it?
killing an animal for eating is very different from bestiality, it really does not compare at all. bestiality is a form of animal abuse. is beating or hitting an animal allowed? all forms of animal abuse are punishable by law. eating meat is actually considered a crime in some cultures as well, however most countries have not made it illegal because people depend on animals meat to survive. bad comparison.
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Again: Relax here, I am not proposing bestiality as a good act.
If it is all purely about desire, then homosexuality is same as bestiality.
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sex between a male and female who are using birthcontrol is also PURELY for desire, so how is that allowed/okay?
there is evidence that points that genetics play a role. sexual orientation in twins is usually the same in 60% of the cases. identical twins can have differences in the DNA as well. sometimes one can have a disease and the other one does not. Identical Twins’ DNA Varies | LiveScience
is being left handed a disorder? maybe it’s ‘abnormal’ since majority of the population is right handed ?
because a diabetic, hemophiliac are suffering and can die from their illness. homosexuality is not an illness which can harm you.
if majority decides whats normal, then left handed ness must also be very abnormal. but is it a disorder??
then masturbation must also be abnormal sexual behavior since it does not involve a man and a woman?
The observational study you quoted does not show anything related to homosexuality.
Anyhow I know why you brought this up.
You based all your argument on “expression of genes” being different between identical twins.
No homosexul gene was talked about in your “evidential” study.
Hence, all you did was what is termed as mere speculation. Nothing close to a proof.
yes, being left handed is abnormal. But it cannot be used as similar example for homosexuality.
If all people of the world become left handed, no harm to humanity will occur in terms of “normality” of the society.
If All people of the world become homosexual.
Even you as the biggest supporter of homosexuality will have problem.
Yes, you are right full blown diabtetics and hemophiliacs may be suffering and need treatment to stay healthy.
But my argument was that having genetic basis does not prove something is right.
Please bring any proof of homosexual gene.
You have none.
You are making false claims. Sorry.
There is no predictable or calculable… genetic transmission of being gay or lesbian.
Both father and mother can be straight and among many of their children, no one can say who may develop homosexual tendency based on genetic composition.
.
All you talked about gene expression which is simply speculative and nothing more.
Yes, masturbation is abnormal. Away from the ‘normal way’ of getting the desire fulfilled.
But it can be considered a disease when the person only shows interest in marrying 'the lovely hand …and attractive enough to marry “Miss Palmalita” !!
Once again:
You do need to attend biology class to know male mouth or behind is not made for another male to get sexual gratification :smack:
..and female body part are not designed by possibly your favorite mother nature to satisfy another female. :no:
If you disagree:
Go ahead show me ANY biology book which says I am wrong.
You are right. **But when people including laydeez are happy with that setting? **And people are ready to claw your face, if you utter a word against that then you can only take care of things in your life.
P.s. That song in permissoin,2nd mariage thread was gross
See thats the worst part that ladies themselves are happy with this setting........ the thing is why do double work of both male & female. .. why not just do your job just like males are doing theirs ..... simple .... why overburden yourself? ...... these ladies have put themselves into a lot of trouble. ..... l haven't seen any guy doing both male & female jobs and getting pregnant n coming to job too & doing all the household work too..... what they do is work 9 to 5 & thats it........ har welay khote hanger joopeya rena is not good kuriyo .....
I dont know if its really guys who want their ladies to be multi talented when they themselves are only doing one job OR some ladies out there just wantto prove that we are superhumans & smarter than you guys...... putting yourself into so much trouble & over doing yourself wont do any good to you ......
you mentioned why identical twins are not always gay, so i showed you that they don’t have 100% same genes. they donot have all the same traits, so if one is gay, the other one is likely to be gay too (60% chance) but not 100 % because they have differences in their dna.
scientists have not pinpointed to a specific gene causing homosexuality, just like there hasn’t been a specific gene pointed for various cancers, conditions where genetics do play are role.
not only is there a genetic factor, but other biological factors also play a role in determining sexual orientation. here is some things to support my claims:
A host of studies since the mid-1990s have found common biological traits between gay men, including left-handedness and the direction of hair whorls. The likelihood that if one identical twin is gay, the other will be also be gay is much higher than the “concordance” of homosexuality between fraternal twins, indicating that genes play a role in sexual orientation, but are not the entire cause.
“In the past decade, I think the pendulum has swung more toward biological theory and biological causes,” said Richard Lippa, a psychology professor at California State University-Fullerton, who has studied hair patterns and other biological traits in gay men.
Sven Bocklandt, a geneticist at the David Geffen school of medicine at UCLA, is bewildered by the argument that people choose their sexual attraction. He said that virtually every animal species that has been studied - from sheep to fruit flies - has a small minority of individuals who demonstrate homosexual activity. US researchers find evidence that homosexuality linked to genetics | World news | theguardian.com
im guessing these people know more biology than you and I?
you call tell me to go read a bio book, but please explain that to geneticists who have done years of studing and research, have phDs, and working in a world renowned universities who are claiming homosexuality to have biological causes.
But its fine when you compare homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia??
i mentioned left handedness because according to you, everything thats not in majority is automatically an abnormality.
Even you as the biggest supporter of homosexuality will have problem.
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And if all heterosexuals use birth control, then guess what will happen to humanity? so using your theory, shouldnt birth control also be wrong and must be banned for our preservation?** is there a possiblity that all heterosexual population will use birth control?** using your logic, you must admit that birth control is unnatural and wrong and can pose a great danger to humanity if everyone uses it.
just how how all straight peopole donot prevent pregnancy, the same way, all humans will not become gay. this has never happened in history. homosexuality has been present for thousands of years in history, and has always been a small minority. it still is very small minority, just known more through better media.
who proves whats ‘right’? yes being a diabetic is not good for you, but that is because it can cause damage to your organs, and eventually death. how is homosexuality the same as diabetes or hemophilia? you keep making ridiculous comparison, yet when i make comparison to COUNTER yours, you ridicule my arguments.
as i mentioned earlier, very few genes have been found for specific conditions. homosexuality is not just genes, but many other biological factors. (things that a person has no control over)
Diabetes is also inherited but do all children born to diabetic parents become diabetic?
A new study suggests that homosexuality can be explained by biology, though not by genes specifically. Instead, the researchers propose that there are sex-specific epi-marks on the genes that are triggered during fetal development to maintain a hormone level balance. These switches cause fluctuations in DNA expression that impacts sexual development, including sexual identity and various other gender characteristics.
So many geneticist, scientists and psychiatrists are claiming homosexuality has biological causes, are you going to disagree with all of them, despre their knowledge is alot more than yours?
masturbation is abnormal yet the majority of population does it. is it wrong? so many married men who have wives still do it from time to time, does that make it even more wrong?
**
**
for straight people yes.your statement is not valid for a homosexual since a homosexual male is not getting pleasure from female.
again, more ridiculous claims. you cannot dictate what someone else must enjoy or find disgusting.
and also, a female body was also not designed to prevent getting pregnant by purposely taking pills to prevent ovulation. but females do that. birth control does seem very unnatural and wrong possibly using your logic
Please explain, why geneticists and biologist who have much more education than you are are saying sexual orientatin is biological and not a choice?
Just to clarify, a gay persons biology is not the same as yours, (same anatomical structure does not mean same biology)
you are wrong on all levels and I have given plenty of evidence how homosexuality is NOT a choice, but due to other factors not in our control.
you can call it ‘unnatural’ or ‘abnormal’. it still doesn’t change the fact that it’s not a choice and someone whos gay does not have the same attraction to a female as you do, yet you continue to ignore the scientific evidence.
why does homosexuality exist in other species if its so biologically wrong? do animals have control over their instincts? over 1500 species show homosexual behavior. **what is the reason behind a duck being gay?
** 1,500 animal species practice homosexuality
a gay person can never stop being attracted to members of the same sex, but they can learn not to act on their desires if they consider it a sin or morally wrong.** morally/religiously wrong is very different from being biologically wrong. their biology is not the same as yours. **
you can say it’s morally wrong according to your beliefs, and I will respect that view 100%. However, claiming biological reasoning behind why it’s wrong is not scientific.
I think you keep bringing the same arguments so i keep saying the same in return.
You need to establish a method:
I counter one argument of yours and if you bring another I have a right to say you lost that argument. Deal???
Now: I simply asked you to give me the proof from any biology book that male body part is MEANT for another gay man by mother nature. Or same question for female for another female. Bring valid scientific proof for something so obviously physical in nature… not just your opinion.
If you cannot bring the proof, at least be honest and accept that I refuted one of your argument successfully. Then we can move on to other points you raise.
So far I have refuted your twin genetic study. You failed to prove there is genetic reason for being gay. Your link did not show any proof for such gene. It did not even talk about homosexuality.
Now: I simply asked you to give me the proof from any biology book that male body part is MEANT for another gay man by mother nature. Or same question for female for another female. Bring valid scientific proof for something so obviously physical in nature.... not just your opinion.
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how do you ignore ALL the evidence i showed proving being gay IS in someone's NATURE, yet you are hell bound in proving anatomical compatibility?? do humans have sex for anatomic compatibility or for pleasure? please answer honestly.
This is one of the most ridiculous logic i have ever heard against homosexuality. can you explain to me WHY a male is not getting ANY pleasure from a female if his organ is only meant for a female as per your logic?
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If you cannot being the proof, at least be honest and accept that I refuted one of your argument successfully. Teh we can move on to other points you raise.
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You are the one who needs to be honest here.
i have countered every single one of your claim
please answer to my questions too:
1) HOW is birth control okay when it can also cause grave danger to human race?
2) why are so many animals including ducks, sea gulls, monkeys, rats, fruit flies, and others exhibit homosexual behavior?
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So far I have refuted your twin genetic study.
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Please show me how you refuted. YOu mentioned if being gay is genetic, tiwns should always have it. I showed evidence that majority of twins show same sexual orientation, and the reason why it's not 100% is due to change in genetic expression. please show me how you 'refuted'.
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You failed to prove there is genetic reason for being gay.
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Did you not read the links? it clearly states that genetic PLUS many other BIOLOGICAL factors are responsible. please read my posts before replying, and read the links i have posted in my previous posts.
A study suggests linkage between a mother’s genetic make-up and homosexuality of her sons. Women have two X chromosomes, one of which is “switched off”. The inactivation of the X chromosome occurs randomly throughout the embryo, resulting in cells that are mosaic with respect to which chromosome is active. In some cases though, it appears that this switching off can occur in a non-random fashion. Bocklandt et al. (2006) reported that**, in mothers of homosexual men, the number of women with extreme skewing of X chromosome inactivation is significantly higher than in mothers without gay sons. Thirteen percent of mothers with one gay son, and 23% of mothers with two gay sons showed extreme skewing, compared to 4% percent of mothers without gay sons.[SUP][21]](Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia)[/SUP]**
is this not a biological/dna/genetic/chromosmal factor??
A number of sections of the brain have been reported to be sexually dimorphic; that is, they vary between men and women. There have also been reports of variations in brain structure corresponding to sexual orientation. In 1990, Dick Shwabb and Hofman reported a difference in the size of the suprachiasmatic nucleus between homosexual and heterosexual men. In 1992, Allen and Gorski reported a difference related to sexual orientation in the size of the anterior commissure.
The genetic scans showed a clustering of the same genetic pattern among the gay men on three chromosomes – chromosomes 7, 8, and 10. These common genetic patterns were shared by 60% of the gay men in the study. This is slightly more than the 50% expected by chance alone. Is There a ‘Gay Gene’?
Epigenetics – **how gene expression is regulated by temporary switches called epi-marks – appears to be critical in determining sexuality, U.S. researchers say.
**
let me know if you need more evidence.
factors such as ACTIVATION of genes, EXPRESSION of genes, BIOLOGICAL and HORMONAL effects in the WOMB (while you’re a fetus), are all causes for homosexuality.
Prove if homosexuality is 'normal', natural and same sex people are meant to be together.
Natural = exists in nature, right? someones NATURE is based on their biology, hence it's natural for one to be homosexual. not only that but over 1500 animals have shown homosexual behavior. please explain , WHY are there animals that are homosexual if it's unnatural.
as far as normal goes, is being left handed normal? you said it's not normal but its not harmful. so the same can go for homosexuality, right?
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Your argument about not having the choice is weak/lame.
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please show me how my statements are weak when its backed by modern science and research.
Natural = exists in nature, right? someones NATURE is based on their biology, hence it's natural for one to be homosexual. not only that but over 1500 animals have shown homosexual behavior. please explain , WHY are there animals that are homosexual if it's unnatural.
as far as normal goes, is being left handed normal? you said it's not normal but its not harmful. so the same can go for homosexuality, right?
please show me how my statements are weak when its backed by modern science and research.
You picked on one word. Not a sign of healthy discussion. ;)
By natural I meant accepted by human being as their innate and natural behavior. Not a literal meaning.
Unless you bring the answer to my first question that you bring evidence from ANY biology book or research men are designed for men and women are designed for women, you lost this one basic and obvious argument.
P.S. I am perfecxtly capable of refuting every argument you bring including your assumption you brought ANY modern science or research. You brought nothing to prove anything you assert.
Simply speculations, extrapolations and baseless opinions. Please don't say X number of scientists say so. Bring their statements based on which 'scientific' evidence they used.
Please bring solid scientific evidences. I know you can't.
Just by saying so and so said does not mean anything.
You picked on one word. Not a sign of healthy discussion. ;)
By natural I meant accepted by human being as their innate and natural behavior. Not a literal meaning.
do all humans have same exact behavior?
Is Birth control by 'normal' heterosexual a natural behavior? just wondering.
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Unless you bring the answer to my first question that you bring evidence from ANY biology book or research men are designed for men and women are designed for women, you lost this one basic and obvious argument.
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please give me a reason why there are so many other species which have homosexual members. please, i would love to know. im sorry but you lost your argument with your very first post.
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P.S. I am perfecxtly capable of refuting every argument you bring including your assumption you brought ANY modern science or research. You brought nothing to prove anything you assert.
Simply speculations, extrapolations and baseless opinions. Please don't say X number of scientists say so. Bring their statements based on which 'scientific' evidence they used.
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so you didn't read any of the posts that clearly states HOW genetics, chromosomes, genetic expression play a role. are you disagreeing with people who study biology and genetics all their lives, who have PhD's in these subjects are wrong and you are right?
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Please bring solid scientific evidences. I know you can't.
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please read the links.
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Just by saying so and so said does not mean anything.
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Will get to ALL of your other arguments and will definitely refute them happily one by one.
Zara Dheeray Dheeray (Just like Azkar said once… and I love to say that too)
However, it is about time you admit you lost the basic argument of not been able to provide what I asked several times.
Strike ONE: You lost the first, the obvious.. and the biggest argument when I asked you multiple times… and you kept dodging it so obviously… to provide any biological proof that a man’s body is designed for another man and a woman’s body is designed for another woman.
Time Out.
Please agree with your loss gracefully so I can decide if I really feel like engaging you in to more delicate arguments.
Bella after pages of back and forth u have to realize he's not going to see ur side no matter what u say.
On a side note I have read about the slight changes in the hormones that the foetus is getting in the womb greatly determines how it's brain develops and how the body develops (in a feminine way or a masculine way). That's why u have tomboy girls and effeminate guys. And thats why all butch girls are not lesbian and all effeminate guys are not gay. And there are so many things that are cause and effect and correlated, and nature vs. nurture that we will probably never know the exact answer.
I also watched this short segment where they were asking ppl on the street if they believed sexual orientation was a choice and they believed that ppl chose to be gay. The ppl who answered yes were then asked if they remembered when they chose to be straight. And that was really eye opening for them because they had no answer to it. Just like they couldn't force themselves to be attracted to the same sex, homosexuals couldn't force themselves the other way.
I am sstill not all for gay rights though. It is ofcourse their decision to practice however they like but I do believe the more open they are about it makes it easier for more ppl to be more open about it. Ofcourse I cannot imagine how difficult of a test it would be to be in their shoes and to try to live in an islamic way or rather how all religions speak against it, that it must cause enormous guilt and inner turmoil.
