Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

^ thats what i call an "ugly face of politics".

Well ur country's administration must close all the fundamentalists-running-madrassas, else u'll get used to of these kinda 'fake' riots which'll continue ruining ur nation and ofcourse 'original' Islam !

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Does the original poster mention Qazi sahib anywhere? Or is your Islamophobic sentiments running so high that you see Qazi sahib in every incidence? So brainwashed you are Ahmadjee…

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Lajo, mafi mangnay ko kaha tha, rag sunanay ko nahiN!

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

yeh Qazi Sahib bheech main kahaan say tapak paray ?

Waisay that poor canteen boy who was killed in PU, was allegedly killed by Jamiyat (romours) to have a fight with Authorities.

All Politics on the blood of those poors who cannot retaliate.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

So what's new? There has never been any law and order in Pakistan. The police were probably trapped in KFC halfway through a chicken wing when it was set on fire.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Since when did you come back, xtreme? I'm so out of the loop these days.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Najim how about altering the title to somestupid pakistanis' instead of calling the whole nation stupid.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

i phoned my friend in Pakistan and he told me about the situation in Pak now and it is so bad and shocking! He said that he went to the bank a day before yesterday and ppl set fire to the bank while others were in the bank including him!! then the police came and managed to get them out. He said that it started due to the cartoons and now it is happening because they want Musharaaf to stand down from his post… even still,its shocking, why damage your own country… :eek: i was planning on going to Pakistan but i think i’ll cancel my trip until the winter or next year even!!!

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Two in the foreground look like students. The one on the ground ( being dragged by the tie) is very young. God forbid they lose their lives over this nonsense, it's not worth it.

On one hand I feel they deserve a good chitraule for being so dumb, and on the other hand I can't help but feel so sorry for them. What are these kids thinking?!!!

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

m ya ur true
muslims are very bads now a days
oh god
can anyone tell them to stop with violence

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

This crap is still going on? Man, idiots don't cease to exist.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Our nation will always be jahil, people fighting and destroying stuff in Pak is just making the people who started the cartoon business more happier.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

LastOfTheDinosaurs, you brought regionlism into a discussion that had nothing to do with these things. :rolleyes:

Question: Who would like to pursue a personal agenda in such circumstances when all Muslims feel the same pain?
Answer: Pakistani politicians(not all of them), Pakistani Mullahs and … never mind.

‘Invisible forces’, reasoned Peshawar educated son of Nowshehra (Qazi Hussain Ahmad), who has crossed over to Lahore (as there was no gate at attock) to poison the minds of the cluess/silly people.

“If the government is unable to respond appropriately to a situation, the people are left with no choice but to take to the streets,” said the senior provincial minister of NWFP, Sirajul Haq. After all, MMA wasn’t elected by the ‘people beyond Attock’, who are thought to be omnipotent. Ah, they must be flattered.

Here is the latest from Peshwar:
“Peshawar cleric Maulana Yousaf Qureshi offers 7.5m rupees ($125,000) and a car to anyone who kills the cartoonist.”

Have a look at India too. They like to pontificate all the time.
“A minister in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh, Haji Yaqub, announces an $11m (£6.3m) reward for anyone who beheads the cartoonist who drew the images.”
Could be some madrassa or invisible forces there too?

And, this is from the ‘establishment figure’ living in the cursed fertile soil of subcontinent:
“Is this the image of ourselves that we want to paint for the outside world. Are we trying to convince the West that Muslims are indeed violent people?” said the chief minister of the ‘region beyond Attack’. Do I need to give the official position of the government of Pakistan. :rolleyes:

I don’t think anyone blamed the culture of any group of people when the people went on the rampage in Hangu. Invisible forces you think? The madrassas from which Talibans graduated summa cum laude are still operating in NWFP. Invisible forces? The democratically elected chief minister refuses to expel foreign ‘guests’ of these madrassas. Invisble forces? Hasba Bill (opposed by federal administration). Invisible forces? These invisble forces must be flattered.

Honestly I’m disappointed in many people here.

Najim, Lahore has not seen this kind of violence in decades. The organizers of the protests promised that they would remain peaceful. And it is the duty of the organizers to deliver on their words. The agencies completely misread their ‘peaceful intentions’. The police chief was taken hostage. They should have been better prepared. Oh well, never trust selfish Paki politicians/Mullahs. They prove their worth once again.

So who are these rioters leading groups of stupid youngsters who have given a bad name to the whole campaign? Look at this picture:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/attachment.php?attachmentid=2752&stc=1&d=1140281302

Do you see the smile (the fun) on their faces? This forms the rearguard. The pathetic clueless unemployed type who were just following lead.

The ‘middle phalanx’ : Mullahs, students of Madrassas.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/attachment.php?attachmentid=2753&stc=1&d=1140281302

The vanguard is formed by the extremists and the politicans who have their own agendas to pursue. The agenda can be to oppose the moderate forces that are gaining strength in the country, or it can be to ‘shake the government off’ so that the losers residing in palaces outside the country can come back and plunder the country for a tenure or two. All planning you need is to stir up emotions of a small group and blame the invisble forces later.

The people publishing/supporting such provocative cartoons have no love for Muslims. Neither do the ‘Muslims’ who want to further their own agendas using the pretext of ‘reprehensible hate-agenda’ of europeon newspapers.

There is another very important lesson to be drwan here. The far-right extremists of Europe are in no way different from the far right extremists of Muslim world. The Europeaons have ‘just better tactics’. They don’t have to look violent to be violent. One more vote for Bin Laden is one more vote for Western far-right politicans. And both parties fully understand the stakes involved.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

very good points.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Some members on this board have constantly been trying to create the impression as if all the extremism is rooted in one cultural group. My point is, we, together with Sindhis and Baluchis, neither have the power, nor resources, nor intellectual sophistication to coin such concepts as Pan-Islamisn, organized and persistent and large-scale Jehad, Political Islam, Sino-Muslim nexus, Bomb, etc. Neither we have the resources or the organizational skill to let a cobweb of militant groups to sprout on and operate from our land.

Moreover, you should study the growth and evolution of radical/extremist religious ideologies and militancy in the Subcontinent over the past two centuries and you will see that almost all such ideologies sprung from the soil of the Subcontinent. The reason is, Muslim community, that had developed over the second milinuim CE in Hindustan was in a quest for identity. Pan-Islamist, radical-Islamist served their need and linked them to civilizations outside.

If you study the political history of Pashtuns, Sindhis, and Baluchis, you woundn’t find a single religious movement with Pan-Islamist aspirations.

Here it would be relevant to mention that during Taliban days, Dr. Israr Ahmad, head of Tanzim-i-Islami, a radical religious movement based in Lahore, used to visit our areas telling people “In a Hadith, it has beed said that the movement and power of Islam would re-emerge from this region and would spread in all directions. Pakistan would serve as the mind/brain for this movement and people of Khurasan as soldiers”. By Khurasan, he meant Afghanistan and Pashtun areas. (It is another matter that he was quick to denounce his Jehadi views after 9/11.)

I will also remind you that there had been formed an Afghanistan Defence Council of which Mualana Samuil-Haq etc. and a number of retired generals were the “influential members”. Also, before 9/11, you would see it written on every wall that “Jehad ki tarbiat Ham sai hasil karain”. How is it possible in a state that some groups start arming and training people in militancy openly?

Still some members here have the audacity to blame it entirely on one cultural group.

Please, don’t mind but I’ve an impression about some Muslims of the Subcontinent that they would turn every thing into “shop-keeping” i.e. “dukandari”. They would turn Islam into “dukandari”, democracy into dukandari", communism into “dukandari”, liberalism into “dukandari”, terrorism into “dukandari” , and you name it!

Now our people have had a different kind of social development i.e. they would stand for their convictions and would make sacrifices for it. Before our unfortunate association with the Muslims of the Subcontinent, there was no conflict in our being Muslims and our being Pashtuns. Both co-existed peacefuly. But these “shop-keepers” would come and subvert the ideological morings of our society by telling us that Islam is primary and our culture is secondary. Our society too is facing peculier circumstances. Feudalism has cumbled (feudalism was already very weak) in our society and tribal stuctures are crumbling. And as the old values are becoming redundant, the “Islamic Shop-keepers”, with support from the ruling structures and media, are there to sell their subversive ideologies and values to masses. Counter and divergent views and approaches to life have already been blocked.

I lament the day when we came to be associated with Subcontinental Muslims. If they couldn’t transform themselves, our disassociation from them would be better. It would save our society of confusion, internal instability, and destruction.

Believe me, provincial governments are just **high-profile local governments **with no powers whatsoever. It is the military, economic, political, religious, and intellecual elite of Punjab and to certain degree Karachi calling the shots and defining and shaping the mainstrean culture, thought, and world-view of the so-called Pakistani Society. They have the media, the resources, the political and administrative authority, and the sophistication to do all this.

As for Qazi Hussain Ahmad, probably, you don’t know that the Markazi Majlisi Shura of Jummaat i Islami at Mansura Lahore has the deciding powers. They gay could not utter a word against Kalabagh Dam openly despite the fact that Nowshera is his constituency lest Punjabi menbers of Majlis-i-Shura are antagonized/annoyed.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Wah re wahi bhai jaan. Throw stones at the Indian high commission in the name of Islam. You must be proud of that.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Just stupid , ...

Aur both kush .....kehnaa chachieeeee

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

now this is a great tactic adopted by the enemies of islam....what they do is provoke the mullahs and the mullahs kill each other and kill of the others business.....till the country goes bankrupt...and the real culprits enjoy are hot cup of tea at the comfy homes......
and one thing i dont understand is the our HOLY PROPHET (PBUH) tolerated insults and beatings at the hand of the infidals and still he pardoned the ppl at the end......and what these mindless mullahs do is that they destory there own house... the protest should be peaceful and should be carried in a way such that to hurt the enemy where it hurts them and not themselves!!!!
now we cant say that our antion is stupid...it actully is ignorant

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

Hum ke tehre ajnabi itni madaraton ke b’ad. :rolleyes:

With all due respect LastOfTheDinosaurs, I don’t believe in our people, your people here. I’m more than willing to have a Pashtoon rule over Pakistan. As long as we can respect our people and be just to them, we don’t have to worry about these things.

Lahore is as much accountable for any political ideology as London is for communism. You’re right that Lahore has been one of the ideological capitals of the area and would remain so until the people from other areas become more tolerant and ‘multiculturalist’ in their views. Lahore has been one of the ideological centers of subcontinent long before partition. The reason is simple: The people of the region have been more accepting of the ‘pernicious foreign’ influences than the people from many other areas. That is the by-product of not suffereing from inferiority/superiority complex. I know that people here like to associate cultures with violence. I’m not one of them. I was just countering the cospiracy theories, and I’ll continue to do that. If there is a Pakistani community that you can speak ill of without any consequences, it is from Punjab region. You know what happens when you use the phrase ‘Buzdil chohay’ for a small group. Voices of indignation from every quarter including Punjab. But whatever you say against Punjabis is kosher.

I know abc of history, and I’d like to tell you that Punjab region is not as homogenous as many people here think. We even have ‘Punjabi pathans’, and we accept them. The Jalianwala Bagh Massacre occured in Punjab, and the people of all religions were part of it. Indian National Congress started its fight for freedom from colonial role with a meeting in Lahore and they got support from all India and North West. Muslim League spelled out Pakistan resloution in Lahore and they got their followers from the whole subcontinent. Lahore has been a center-stage for many other political and ideological battles for which I’m deeply sorry. :stuck_out_tongue: If other communities had shown a less insular attitude, they might have made their cities a center of all these ideas. Jamate Islami and other Islamic parties of pre-partition India were with Indian National Congress. Their leaders moved to Lahore/Karachi only after the partition and made them these cities centers of their activities. I’d like to request the present day Congress (and their Pakistani supporters) to take their ideological supporters back to Delhi. I’m not going to shed a tear. With all due respect, most of these national leaders have come from non-Punjabi areas and made Lahore a center-stage because they understand the significance (good or bad) of the city. Qazi sahib once said that he considers himself a lahori now. I accept him as part of Lahore even if Lahore has nothing in common with his political ideology. Bhutto was no exception. The love Lahoris gave him moved him to tears. I don’t think he got bigger rallies from anywhere else. You have to give this credit to Punjabis. They can love non-Punjabis more than their own people. That is why these ideolgiocal battles are fought in that city. I wonder if Punjabis have been too tolerant?

Let me give you another example. A personal one. I had a wonderful Pashton friend and we used to talk about everything including politics, socialism, religion etc. Once I remarked, ‘Punjabis don’t even like to speak their language now’. ‘If you don’t speak your language, why do you expect us to leave our language?’ was the answer. Well, I respect his views. Today Sindhis like to teach their people Sindhi language. You must accept that Punjabis have been more accomadating when it comes to the quaint ideas of culture and language. Obviously you can’t go the Bugti tribe and set up an office of any national party. But as long as you’re citizen of Pakistan, you can go to Lahore and do whatever is constitutionally permissibe. You have named a number of religious leaders. How many of them are Punjabis? Today most of them have been put under house arrest by Punjab government. But unfortunately we can’t keep a Pakistani from going to Lahore and propagating their ideas as long as they’re peaceful. For every Israr Ahmad coming to Lahore, there is one doctor Javed Iqbal from Lahore.

I have not been following each and every thing said on this bulletin board about different cultures. People keep insulting each other because that makes them feel better. Just ignore them. Secondly they’re always unified when it comes to Lahore. They even get support from across the border. :cb: There are the same conspiracy theories about Lahore recycled every now and then. Quota supporters! How come? The quota system is a bigger problem in Sindh where they have even urban and rural quota. And that is totally unjustified. But speaking against this hypocrisy is going to offend a lot of friends of mine. The quota system is put in place by the people who can’t compete against the rest. But let’s be pragmatic and give a few seats to the people of the underdeveloped areas like FATA etc. They kind of deserve it, but they should change themselves in a better way. The other thing that people here bring against Punjabis is water issues. Like the serfs of the feudals in Sindh can have a voice of their own! And whoever told you that Punjabis control media? PTV is controlled by whoever is in power(Punjabi or no-Punajbi). Whatever suits his interests. Look closely at all the other top journos and TV channels and you’d know who controls media in Pakistan. BTW, most films produced in Pakistan in 2005 were Pashtoo films.

Lighten up my freind. If Punjabis can laugh about chaudhry brothers, choti tind bari tind (CTBT), other people should also learn to look at ‘their’ leaders as human beings and not as demi-gods. People make mistakes. The good thing is to accept those mistakes and move forward without forgetting the lessons learnt. Punjabis may have made a number of mistakes. They should learn from it. You were right when you said that a lot of good/bad things can be said about any community.

OK this is the summation of my heretical views: I consider everyone equal. I don’t really care if someone thinks that Karzai/Congress represents him better than Ghulam Ishaq/Musharraf . What makes you good or bad is your ideology not the ideologies of the people who shared your language, culture, region or even religion. I’m not going to ask you to put religion before culture/language or vice versa. That is your decision. For me my belief system (religious or secular) is paramount. If someone’s belief system revolves around some particular culture or language, well… there is very little I can do. Secondly we were on the same wavelength here, I think. In my view, regionalism, cultural and lingual differences/similarities are very hollow things. But that’s just my view. Not imposing on anyone. I’ll support people if they are facing villainy; I’ll take away my support if they become villains. Easier said than done. But at least it’s an ideal I can live by. And our ideas are what define us.

Edit, Edit, Edit: According to my knowledge, NFC award (revenue distribution) is unafair. Sindh earns most and should get its proportionate share. To base it on population is not right. That has nothing to do with this topic, but things like this prdouce these establishment theories.

Re: Our Stupid Nation - Pakistanese

OK back to topic…back to political Mullahs and their ‘democratic’ supporters. The people who have once again hijacked our cause. Qazi and Fazl are going to be arrested. Bent on holding rallies everywhere… Danish embassy has been closed down, ambassador recalled… But the political Mullahs think that they can take the opportunity to destabilize the government or at least give uncle Bush an idea of their street power during his visit. Grabbing headlines isn’t bad either.
The biggest casualties are reputation of Pakistan and the Muslim causes around the world.

Read more about Political Mullahs.

Mansoora under siege Rallies banned in Islamabad; Fazl under house arrest; Qazi to be arrested

Dozens detained as Islamabad braces for rally

The latest from Qazi Sahib.

"Govt would be responsible for consequences: MMA chief

LAHORE: President Muttahida Majlis-e-Aml (MMA) Qazi Hussain has signed his house arrest orders, served on him by federal government, report said Sunday.

Talking to newsmen on the occasion, Qazi Hussain Ahmed said now the government would be responsible for the consequence after his house arrest.

MMA had announced to take out rallies to protest against the publication of blasphemous cartoons while Qazi Hussain Ahmed and Maulana Fazlur Rehman on Saturday were put into house arrests in Lahore and Islamabad respectively. "