Our parents telling nonsense about Pakistan

My parents were amongst the Desi parents telling stories about Pakistan which weren’t even true. Nowadays there is internet, so children know much more about their countries of origin before even visiting it. Back in the '80s and the first years of the '90s, most people didn’t have internet in the Netherlands and when they did, the sources and knowledge we have online nowadays, still weren’t available in those early days.

I believed everything my parents claimed about Pakistan. Some family friends and our family members joined my parents in these nonsense stories. They claimed we should be better Pakistani citizens, even though we were born and being raised in the Netherlands. My parents said we shouldn’t listen to music and they lied that there wasn’t music in Pakistan, except for religious music. They never explained where some of the Pakistani music came from, which we still heard in dramay waghaira (every time someone came back from a visit to Pakistan, we’d all have many dramay to watch on tape). And the dramay had people living in a different manner from the way we were being raised, but my parents said that was just tv sheevee.

According to my parents, every female in Pakistan only wore salwar kameez duputta. I was the only Pakistani in my school for example and bullied because of my desi clothing, yet my parents insisted I should mostly wear those, as a ‘good’ Pakistani. They also claimed that every person in Pakistan was very religious and knew everything about Islam, so we should work harder to learn more about religion. My parents didn’t allow dancing either, saying honourable people don’t dance. So many nonsense stories, even about how the country looked.

I was only a small child during my first visit to Pakistan. Our family originates from Kotli, A.K. and most family members still live there, though we have some relatives elsewhere, such as in Islamabad and Rawal Pindi. I remember nothing from my first visit. My second and last visit to Pakistan was in 2000, by that time I already had my own children who were still babies. It was a shock to realise that most stories my parents and other people had told me about Pakistan, weren’t true.

For example, not every person living there was very religious, people varied there as much as here, I actually even knew a little more about religion than most ordinary people like me and I’m not especially schooled in religion. And yes, there really was music in Pakistan. People also wore western clothes in some parts of the country, so the way they looked varied as much as in the Netherlands too. Further I realised that so many different parts have so many different cultures. I only know some culture from Kotli, which my parents raised me with in the Netherlands. In Pakistan however you had differences in mentality when you travelled from one place to another. Sometimes it felt like visiting a different country all together instead of just a different town. And I saw this from only visiting Kotli, Islamabad and Pindi, all this briefly btw. (we stayed for about 4 weeks I think)

My parents made it seem as if the people in Pakistan were very holy like, very perfect in their behaviour, the stories they told us, were in fact a way to tell us we don’t deserve to visit Pakistan, unless we became like that too. Well, it didn’t help much and all they achieved was a big culture shock for me upon seeing the reality in Pakistan. Perhaps I was most shocked by finding fake medicines in a pharmacy there.

After my first culture shock, I began viewing Pakistan from my own experiences instead of the fake stories of my parents. I then saw the real positive aspects of the country. Such as people being there for each other. My cousin had hurt her foot or example, a washing machine fell on it if I remember correctly. The entire street came by to visit her, to help, to wish her well. That never happens in the Netherlands. Children were misbehaving in the streets, an old man told them gently to stop it, they listened to him and left, here people don’t care even if you get killed, they mostly walk past you and let you die (yes, we’ve had quite a few of these cases here!) and forget about asking children to behave, many will call you names even when you just pass them on your way. There is a certain respect for old people and for children in Pakistan in a way I’ve never seen in the Netherlands and so much more. Yes, it wasn’t the perfect country with for me unattainable behaviour and knowledge, but I found something wonderful seeing past the imperfections which perhaps I wouldn’t even have noticed, had not my parents brainwashed me about Pakistan being the absolute perfect country with perfect people without any fault at all.

Do any of you have such stories? Were you ever given a false or just a different idea of Pakistan? What was it like and what was the reason for your parents (or others) to do that?

Re: Our parents telling nonsense about Pakistan

I was given the false idea/impression of USA :(

Re: Our parents telling nonsense about Pakistan

Similar stories are also true the other way around. Parents in Pakistan routinely tell their kids that everyone living in West is bay-sharam, born illegitimately and have no sense of morality. Its a true eye opener when one does fact checks themselves.

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That's true. Even while living in the Netherlands, my parents used to say that 'goray' were all full of sin and nasty deeds, while at school I saw that wasn't the case. My Mum even used 'goray' as a nasty word, if she hated something I did, she used to say angrily 'goree banna hai'? Yet, my parents had Dutch friends too. However, I as a girl wasn't allowed to have many Dutch friends.

Part of it is true though, some people here are born out of wedlock, and depending on how you personally feel about that, you might find that 'be-sharam'. One of my dearest Dutch friend lives with her boyfriend, they are partners and have a child and never plan to get married. Personally, I don't have a problem with that. And yes, some people here don't have morality, just like some people in Pakistan don't have it either (lying when not really needed, cheating in any way, corruption, etc.).

The most told story about the west I heard amongst relatives in Pakistan was that everyone here is 'rich'. They refused to believe me when I told them otherwise.

Re: Our parents telling nonsense about Pakistan

Lovely thread

True at most part

Seems to me they think time stop when they left and its the same from their zamana and exaggerating it too to make it seems better then the current country or city where they are living

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If Pakistan is such a utopia, what brought people to the West? Thing is each place offers its own pros and cons like you said.

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^^ That's what I would've asked.. If Pakistan is so great, why did they move?

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My parents till this day (despite coming to the USA over 30 years ago) think of Pakistan as a whole as a saint-like people, and everyone here as the devil.

"if we were in Pakistan, you could do whatever you want, go where you please, because it's safe. it's only cuz of the bad people in America that you have restrictions. you can never trust gorey/kaale the way you do our fellow Pakistanis"

"if we were in Pakistan, your dupatta would never leave your body, unlike America where people have forgotten it"

"in Pakistan, you would have been a married doctor with 5 kids by now, and so happy. It's because of America you chose finance as your field tsk tsk"

"Americans have no moral value cuz they just sleep around. In Pakistan, you have one man (or woman) and that's it you get married ! That is true love, not this dating nonsense "

blah blah.. so irritating.. they have a blind eye to the culture over there now vs here.. in a lot of ways, people over there are very similar to the people here. But they don't understand that.

Re: Our parents telling nonsense about Pakistan

good thread and good insight. as someone said, every place in the world has it's own 'pluses' and 'minuses'. we shouldn't b ethreatened as long as we are strong in our faith and culture. i care more about my religion than my culture.

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About leaving Pakistan, from what I've understood, my parents came here for money. There was no ongoing war in Kashmir, when they came here. They only had economic reasons.

akaprincess, your parents sound a lot like mine and like many family friends, even one from India with similar ideas!

KKF, I couldn't agree more.

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The one thing I don't like about this is "biting the hand that feeds you", The "eveil" goras gave you the citizenship of their country and other basic rights. Plus of course much more economic freedom than ever. Please don't be ungrateful.

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That's why I've never understood how much many fellow Pakistanis dislike it, when people like me decide to make both Pakistani and Dutch culture a part of our personal life. My children are even more Dutch than me, which is normal as they are the second generation born and raised in the Netherlands. Even when I was growing up, most of my family members had this attitude of them and us, but I've also seen this amongst the Dutch. Many of them aren't willing to accept people with a different background, no matter how Dutch these people become. So can't blame only one side.

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I accidentally press dislike when it was supposed to be like

Cant seems to undo it @ akaprincess

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^^ haha its okay

Re: Our parents telling nonsense about Pakistan

Pakistan is not that great also. There are reasons why your parents are telling you this stuff, I've had my very first argument with a stranger in Pakistan. I also lost my cool with a taxi driver in Pakistan. Got in to an argument with a neighbor in Pakistan because he said "Why am I standing on the veranda looking over at his house" which I wasn't as I was just standing there drinking tea. His daughter saw me and then got angry that I was paying her any attention and decided to throw a hissy fit.

Nearly got killed by a Rickshaw who sped by me hit me on my side knocking me over whilst I was carrying samosa. ALSO while I was taking down Jamuns from my khala's backyard the same girl brought over her mom and said I was looking at her when ALL I was focused on were Jamuns. People in Pakistan are seriously messed up. There are good people fine, there is a good sense of neighbor helping neighbor but there is some messed up things going on. One of the family living in the neighborhood was robbed at night and when they called the police the police literally said that they weren't coming over until they were paid 20,000 rupees. WTF! That's Pakistan for you.

Don't get me even started on religion in Pakistan. I got in to a heated debate in which the girl argued with me that Noah's arch was a tiny boat and that he never carried any animals on board, when I asked her how the animals were saved she said "Allah had them magically transported to heven" DA HELL MAN! Plus also they have no idea with the whole story of Adam eating from the garden of eden. They think he ate "Anaaj" which is like wheat, WHICH WHEAT GROWS ON TREES? It's like arguing with a bunch of 15 year olds in Pakistan.

Also there are literally 0 documentaries on Pakistani television. Literally nothing historical is ever shown in Pakistan.

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Yes, there are definitely messed up things as well, they are everywhere in the world for that matter. Though thank God not every society allows killing of females for 'honour' or puts raped females in jail. I call that misplaced honour, when people kill females or force them in marriages against their will, all for the sake of family honour, well, that is not true honour in my opinion, it's misplaced. It's the kind of honour I don't have because I won't force my daughter in a marriage against her wishes. We have a different kind of honour instead. There are many more problems of course in Pakistan and many of our Pakistani people bring them along when they move to the west. My family did that. People are often surprised when I tell them some of the things my family did and does, they are surprised that these things are being done here, in the Netherlands. But many Pakistani people do that not just in the Netherlands, but in Britain and France for example too.

And it isn't just Pakistani police who in many cases won't help you unless you're rich or in a higher position, many hospitals do the same. We went to a doctor in Pakistan, people waiting were left waiting, not us, my Aunty got help immediately, because my family has money and people living in the west who bring along a lot of money. We also have poor people in my big family, some of those told me how difficult their life is. My Mum didn't like my talking to them and forbade it. :(

Yes, I heard the various Islamic views, some of those make sense, others don't. But you will find that in many other countries as well.

We should remember that not everything is horrible in Pakistan, but it is definitely not some perfect society.

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The most CRAZIEST thing which my mom asked me to do was one of my aunt was pregnant at the time with a baby girl. She called my mom asking for some money so she can have the gender of the baby girl transformed to a boy. How you ask? Well by the workings of the Peer of course. The peer had asked for 1500 rupees and he was going to "Pray" for her and after the period of about 1 month she'll have a baby boy. Guess what she have? A GIRL! Seriously who believes in crap like this? My aunt isn't even Jahil, she's an educated woman. Still she fell for crap like this. Smh.

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Many Pakistanis believe in pir sahibs in the Netherlands too. We used to be friends with a Gujrati family, who frequented pir's. I had no idea who they were at the time, but the daughter told me about some of the things they had to do for better grades or more money, etc. Really strange. I don't believe in it either, but the pir's are making a lot of money, especially in Britain it seems. And this pir thing seems to be really Pakistani, I'm afraid. I used to ask my friends from Maroc and Turkey about this topic, and they told me they don't have pir sahibs, though many of them do believe in doing similar strange things to gain something.

You know? My mother in law told me that I should write ayahs on boiled eggs for a baby, I was just married off and they immediately wanted a baby from me, we were married just a few months! When I didn't listen to her, she did it herself, wrote ayahs or prayers on boiled eggs and made me eat those. Never sure what to think about all that. I never really believed these things. You just say normal prayers and those should be enough. Of course I only became pregnant a year later, to her anger, she claimed her egg writing bogus thing didn't help because I didn't believe in it.

We have so many weird things being done in name of Islam, and most of those aren't even part of Islam.

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It's the same crap in the West. Just different things.

look at the mental issues more and more people are having in west, broken families, depressed people, having money but no friends, even kids or parents that don't tolerate each other, people hardly know their religion or culture, just know bollywood and indian songs/actors. The level of mental health issues is increasing. Just look at the forums on any website, tells u issues about western societies where its all about the money.

Pakistan's issues are more on lack of basic necessities. Fix that and i'll bet people will flock back in no time as life is more easier/better in Pak when you have jobs/facilities/employment/money/health.

Here in west every 2nd/3rd person has issues, but its well-hidden due to fact they have big houses, cars, credit cards, etc.
So it's really not honest when people say the west is all that great. Yeah they like the glitz and glamour but beneath it all is pure filth and dirt. Just they implemented a lot of islam's teachings is one thing, but other than that, not much

Re: Our parents telling nonsense about Pakistan

It's not hidden in the Netherlands en Britain: statistics indicate that even though most people here have a better level of life as far as basic needs go than in most other countries in the world, all kinds of health problems and yes, mental health issues too, have increased.

Many people I know, btw, and I'm one of them, only want money to able to pay the bills. I would like to have enough money for my healthcare and that of my children, so I care about having enough money for that. I also need money to pay my rent, electricity, water, school fees for my children, pay the groceries. As far as I'm concerned, being rich isn't important for me, but I would like to have at least enough money to be able to replace clothes and shoes when they are broken and to replace anything in my home, when it's broken. I have very little money and get in trouble whenever I get an extra bill for health issues or school fees or something important is broken, so people like me care about money too. So you see, it isn't only the rich people who care about money, it's the poor people too and people like me, who have been living with little money for years, who raised their children with little money, who had to choose between buying clothes for children or food and buying food or medication, that's how our life has been for many many years. Naturally we care about money. (and no, I don't take money from my family)

I also know many people who don't know religion or culture, and still don't watch bollywood nor know 'indian songs/actors'. These things don't always go together. My own children aren't religious even though they do know something about religion, yet they dislike Bollywood movies. In all their lifes, perhaps they have seen only one or two. They don't like Pakistani culture very much either because of what our family did to us, and many of our fellow Pakistanis here are like that too. For years many Pakistani children have said to my daughter 'you have no father', just because I chose to divorce him as I don't want to be beaten up all my life by him and my children deserve a household where they don't have to see their mother being beaten up by their Dad regularly. I have done nothing wrong. We don't want Pakistanis like that in our personal life, so I'm grateful they say these things so we can get rid of them quickly. Yuck.

Also many Pakistani friends of my daughter are racists, especially against black people, while they were never mistreated by them. Their only reason to be racist is that they don't like dark skin colour, yet they claim to be better muslims than me. Somehow I doubt that Allah will think it's more horrible that I ran away from a husband who used to beat me up for no reason regularly than those Pakistanis hating black people only because they don't like dark skin. Hm. That is not what Islam teaches us anyway. I have my own mistakes and I hope that no matter what false accusations and no matter how much people humiliate me for their own fake reasons, I never become a horrible person. I will be happy if I can fix my current mistakes and become a better person.

But this racism, is a Pakistani kind of racism, where dark skin is disliked. It's different from the racism of white people who hate dark skin too for no reason. Even if probably brought to Pakistan by British Raj, who preferred white skin of course, Pakistani racism of black skin still has a difference from 'white racism'. And that is sad, that they bring that here, to the west, where there is already so much racism against anyone. So the British brought their racism to our countries of origin, there in Pakistan it evolved into it's current different kind of Pakistani racism of black skin, and was brought back to the west by Pakistani immigrants, adding to the already excisting form of racism by white people. Don't believe there is a difference, pay attention then if any of you live in the west, and notice the different way our Pakistanis discriminate black people from the way native white westerners do that.

The funny thing is, the same Pakistanis who are rude to me and my children, just because I did the right thing by leaving my abusive husband, and who hate all black people with their dark skin as the only reason, are victims of racism by white people themselves. So everyone is racist against everyone, for the sake of racism. It's understandable when people hate a race, or like it less, after having had terrible experiences with people from that race. That's different, but disliking a race with no other reason than skin colour is ridicilous. (my children and I were treated terribly for years by people of a certain race of blacks for example, not all blacks, but these particular ones, and logically because of their nasty behaviour against us we don't like them all anymore, yet, when meeting new people from this same certain race of blacks we still give them a chance, to see if one of them is perhaps different, but those Pakistanis we met here, hate all blacks with no reason at all)

I've seen foreigners and native dutch people all mistreating each other. People in the west are horrible, people in Pakistan are horrible. People in the west are nice, people in Pakistan are nice. You have that everywhere. Right now, here is better when you are not rich. If you are rich, then life in Pakistan is better. Perhaps somewhere in the future Pakistan really will be a better place overall, even for people with no money. Who knows. The world will always change.

But remember, that fixing basic needs is not the only answer. How can problems like racism and problems like mistreating females who did the right thing by leaving their abusive husbands be solved? That is also needed.