Here is the proof from Quran:
Surah 72 (Al-Jinn), verses 26 and 27:
26: "(He Alone)the All-Knower of the Ghaib (unseen), and he reveals to none His Ghaib (unseen).
27: Except to a messenger (from mankind) whom He has chosen (He informs him of the unseen as much as He likes), and then He make a band of watching gaurds (angels) to march before him and behind him.
Only knowledge of unseen prophet MOhammad(pbuh) had was what allah had revealed to him, thats all. To say that he HAD all of the knowledge of unseen is not right.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**Only knowledge of unseen prophet MOhammad(pbuh) had was what allah had revealed to him, thats all. To say that he HAD all of the knowledge of unseen is not right.
**
[/quote]
Watcher:
Please be more clear on what you want to say. By "revealed" do you mean that the Quran only? If you mean that he only had knowledge of what was revealed through the Quran, then you are wrong.
I did not say that he had knowledge of "all" things. Only Allah has knowledge of all things. It's clear though, from the Quranic verses, that he did have the knowledge of the unseen or Ghaib. However, he did not have knowledge of all things Unseen.
Later.
Knowledge that ALLAH revealed to Mohammad (pbuh) through: Quran, wahi, dreams, etc. etc.
Clear enough? I hope so.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
Also see these verses from QURAN:
Surah 7(al-A’raf) Verses # 187-188.
-
They ask you, [o Muhammad], about the Hour: When is its arrival?[establishment] Say, “its knowledge is only with my lord. None will reveal its time except him. It lays heavily[concern, worry, fear] upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly.” They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, “its knowledge is only with Allah, but most of the people do not know.”
-
Say, “I hold not for my self [the power of] benefit or harm, except what Allah has willed. And if I knew the unseen, I could have acquired much wealth, and no harm would have touched me. I am not except a warner and a bringer of good tidings to a people who believe.”
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
So now you are saying that he did have knowledge of the unseen?
whats so hard about the first statement made about ilm-el ghaib?
Hey Watcher, help me understand...
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
*Knowledge that ALLAH revealed to Mohammad (pbuh) through: Quran, wahi, dreams, etc. etc.
*
[/quote]
Are you saying that there may be knowledge provided to the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) by Allah Ta'alla, which is not part of Quran, and which may be only in the books of Ahadith or Sunnah (e.g. Hadees-e-Qudsee)?
Is there a possibility that there were knoweldge provided to Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) by Allah Ta'lla which he shared only with his chosen few companions, and is not available in most books of ahadith, and not available in Quran? Could it be possible that this knoweldge transferred from person to person, instead of in a book form?
Is the knowledge of Islam and commandments of Allah Ta'lla limited to what we read in Quran and books of ahadith?
Shakir, you can come up with whatever conclusion you desire. But I meant, what I said very clearly.
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Pristine, Ahadiths are part of Islam and way to gain more knowledge about Islam. There are hadiths tellings us about coming of Hazrat Mehdi, now that is not in Quran. How did prophet knew about coming of Mehdi? Off course, Allah told him with revealation, etc.
And the other part of your post, well I don’t think there is such possibility. Because, Mohammad brought guidence for ALL not just for few of his companions, his every action was form of example for everyone else at that time and generations to come. Telling about Islam to few of his companions and not sharing it with other Muslims just doesn’t sound right.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited February 26, 2001).]
>>Telling about Islam to few of his companions and not sharing it with other Muslims just doesn't sound right.
But, is it possible?
There may be many reasons. The issue might be too complex, or the required a certain level of taqwa before an ordinary person understands it. Prophet (SAWW) may choose not to disclose it to every muslim, because Allah Ta'alla ordered him.
For example, lets assume Allah says to the Prophet (SAWW) tell Abu Bakr (RA) such and such things... Do you think, the Prophet (SAWW) will go against that command and tell it to everyone just because it 'doesn't sound right to just share it with one person'?
There are many possibilities. What I am asking is, is it possible?
[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited February 26, 2001).]
Pristine bhai, I think that it is very much possible.
Watcher ji, you are contradicting yourself. First you say "it is wrong to say that our Prophet pbuh had unseen knowledge." Then you say that he did have some ghaibi knowledge through revelation, wahi, dreams, etc. And you bring verses from the Quran that point to the fact that "ghaibi" knowledge is with Allah only.
Make up your mind!
[This message has been edited by Shakir75 (edited February 26, 2001).]
haha pristine, why is everything you KNOW complex for an ordinary person to understand? I thought, Islam was easy as Allah says in Quran. I don’t know where you got this complexity from.
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Shakir, Mohammad did not had any unseen knowledge. Allah revealed to him, and then he knew what he did not. KNOWLEDGE OF UNSEEN BELONGS SOLEY TO ALLAH. What WE needed to know, allah decided to reveal to Mohammad so he can pass it on to us. To say that he(mohammad) knew about the past and present events automatically without the help of ALlah, that is wrong.
I posted some verses before read some more: “This is of the tidings of the Unseen which we reveal to you. You did not know it before this, nor your people.” (11:49)
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
Watcher, u never answered the question. I just gave you an example, and you never responded to the question.
What is your basis to assume that the Prophet (SAWW) imparted all ilm (knoweldge) to everyone?
What is your basis to assume that there could be no other knoweldge imparted by the Prophet (SAWW) except what is in Quran and the seven authentic books of Ahadith?
Yes, you can say, there may be other knowledge imparted by the Prophet (SAWW), but I am not aware of it, and since it is not properly documented and authenticated so I do not give it as much importance. Fair enough?
Re: Complexity. My dear friend. You can't use one verse of Quran to suggest that it can be understood so easily. I read about one person who is from Taba-tabi'een (the next generation after the sahaba), who spent his entire life just understanding the meaning of Sura-e-Baqra. Remember Quran is the word of Allah, not by a human. If you ponder on the words of Allah, you will discover the depth of their meaning. That is why it is encouraged to read and understand Quran in the language in which it was revealed, Arabic, because once it is translated into any language, that essence is lost, and we are left with a sentence forumlated by a human, which is tossed around by anyone to prove a point. Insha Allah, sometime in future, I will give you an ayat of Quran and ask you to tell me the meaning, and then we will see, how the simple words provide such a depth of knowledge once you ponder over them.
[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited February 26, 2001).]
>>To say that he(mohammad) knew about the past and present events automatically **without the help of ALlah, that is wrong.
Who said this?
Pristine, have you read quran lately?
Allah says: “…i have completed my favor upon you and accepted Islam as your religion…”
There is no other source of knowledge accept Quran and Sunnah of Prophet Mohammad(pbuh).
You might have your sheikhs to provide you with “complex” knowledge but islam is EASY and it does not need complexity.
We ll talk about this in the morning now.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
You go off in tangents, Watcher… and it is not a nice way to discuss. Where you don’t have an answer you throw another issue in the middle and never answer the original question. It is for this reason that some people do not wish to engage in discussions with you, because the discussions become so futile. It should not spoil someone’s ego to say “I don’t know”, or “Probably you are right, but I need to check out more”
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Now coming back to your post…
Who says, there is a source of Islamic knowledge except Quran and Sunnah?
What I am repeatedly asking is how can you be sure that the complete Sunnah is documented in the seven books of Ahadith? That is a simple question, requiring a simple answer.
Yaar watcher time mut zaya kar....saaf saaf jawab day day na pristine bhai ka.....
LOL !
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
Well, it takes the patience of a saint to discuss with Watcher bhai. You ask him a question he doesn’t want to answer, he ignores it. Makes up a new statement and asks a very obvious question, and responds to it.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Ah… well… we’ll see tomorrow what new questions, Watcher bhai comes up with in response to this question …
[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:
**
What is your basis to assume that the Prophet (SAWW) imparted all ilm (knoweldge) to everyone?
(edited February 26, 2001).]**
[/quote]
Are we talking about Islamic knowledge? If that is the case, everything about Islam is in Quran and in Sunnah books.
On what basis do you ask me that question? Do you think he told some of his companions about certain issues in Islam and never told the others? Why would he do that, when Islam is for everyone, all ages, all races and all of the man kind?
I did not insert another issue into the post, I replied to your question with that Verse. If knowledge of Islam is not completely given to its followers, how can they follow it right?
Pristine, how can you be so sure that we did NOT receive knowledge about ALL of Islam?
If you "think" there is some knowledge which is not documented in Sunnah books, why go after it when you have no knowledge about what it is?
First of all, why would Allah hide "some" need to know knowledge about Islam? Doesn't he say in Quran that Islam is complete? Allah also says in Quran, "....don't pursue things of which you have no knowledge about..."
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
>>Do you think he told some of his companions about certain issues in Islam and never told the others? Why would he do that, when Islam is for everyone, all ages, all races and all of the man kind?
I had already answered it above with examples. Are you asking the same question again?
>>If knowledge of Islam is not completely given to its followers, how can they follow it right?
Knowledge of Islam as required by an ordinary muslim to be successful in this life and hereafter is given completely to everyone. I am not disputing that. I am talking about advanced levels, which are not for everyone. You already said “Knowledge that ALLAH revealed to Mohammad (pbuh) through: Quran, wahi, dreams, etc. etc.”, so u assume he shared all of them with all of the muslims, and they are all documented in the books of sunnah. Interesting.
>>Pristine, how can you be so sure that we did NOT receive knowledge about ALL of Islam?
I am not saying yes or no. I just asked whether it is possible, and you (apparently) responded by a question, which I had already answered. So I assume, you mean ‘no’.
>>Doesn’t he say in Quran that Islam is complete? Allah also says in Quran, “…don’t pursue things of which you have no knowledge about…”
I’d rather not respond to verses quoted completely out of context.
We don’t have anything else to discuss, since we disagree on the most basic assumption. Which is fine. Since you have a right to your opinion and sources, and since it been made clear that higher levels of tassawaf and tareeqat are not for everyone. These require a very high level of taqwa and love of Allah Ta’lla.
>>…everything about Islam is in Quran and in Sunnah books.
This is interesting and very remarkable. I wish you good luck in your studies of Quran and Sunnah.
Just a little piece of parting advice. As a knowledgable person you have a complete right to toss around quranic verses (in English). You are free to take the most simplistic translation and assume that “Quran is made easy for you to understand”. This is fine. However, Quran also says that “It is Hidaya (guidance) for those who ponder over it”. Some times the simplest ayat you are quoting has a much deeper meaning which will come to you when you think carefully and ponder over the words of Allah. As a student of Islam, you can either take a superflous approach with superioristic attitude or you can be humble in your approach and constantly learn. Its your choice and your life. Good luck!