Re: original shia part 2
Hadhrat Ali:razi:'s wife Hadhrat Fatimatuz Zehra:razi2: veiled from this world within the first year of Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad:saw:'s departure from this world.
ravage bro:
the ahadeeth I have heard about Caliphate do not ever talk about Caliphate being remained among Qureshies.
PS: I see you posted some references… I will check them out.
Re: original shia part 2
qureshi bhai, i posted the hadees from the bukhari which I understand to be the most authentic hadees book there is. scroll up the page and you will see a hadees narrated by muawiya to the same effect. scroll a few ahadees down and you will see the famous (amongst shias..) 12 princes (all from qureish) hadees.
Re: original shia part 2
[quote]
bibi Ai'sha isnt considered infallible because she isnt considered to be part of those people whom the Quran guaranteed infallibility for. this does not automatically mean that she was bad, a lot of sahaba and ahl e bayt we love were at once worthy of respect, and are not considered infallible.
[/quote]
Dont say what you dont know. There are several verses in Quran to show her Modesty. Well She is a hot topic and people easily blamed her, even in Prophet's life. So when She was blamed to commit a rape (Nauz-u-Billah) Allah got angry with those people who blamed her and take a part in spreading this rumor. Allah awarded them with hardest punishment. So be careful when you talk about her. May Allah keep us on right way. Amen
Re: original shia part 2
erm, what in the part of my post that you quoted alleges immodesty on bibi aisha? infact the reason I added the clarification of the second sentence was because I didnt wish to show disrespect to her.
Re: original shia part 2
by the way qureshi sahab, i noticed you used Hadhrat before bibi fatima, isnt that supposed to be a masculine prefix? just curious, i always thought so.
anyway, im signing off from this thread permanently this time, if anyone has questions about what I've already said please pm me. I keep returning to these threads even though i vow not to.
Re: original shia part 2
its quite interesting that even after the prophet claimed that of whom he himself is mawla - Ali is also their mawla - still people say its not enough.
I find people questioning the birthplace of Ali - strange when they dont sift through the history of Islam/Moslems
Re: original shia part 2
People like yourself are good in spreading rumors..don’t mean they are right… unless its in some authentic reference I won’t buy it… I have never taught anything like that… seems like you are one of those people who hear andl like to spread rumors…
May Allah protect us all from the shar of these people… who spread rumors to mislead others in the name of religon… Ameen
Re: original shia part 2
Please read it, and do not complain if your work is lost after this.
Re: original shia part 2
Oh finally you are back dude... I had been waiting to hear from you for along long time... and here you come up with a copy/paste... but oh well I guess Code Red don't have problem with sunni's posting copy/paste in this thread and when I quoted some hadiths and didn't copy paste anything oh they have problem ....
hmm Akbari school of opinion... a school of thought within Isna Asheri... first time I heard of them.... they don't come from firqae Jafferia.... do they???? plus there are so many hadith's out there and if some hadith contradicts the teaching of Quran its dhaef... quran witnesses Islam is perfect you can bring 101 hadiths and if it contradicts Quran I won't believe it buddy... specially if its a guy from you... a person who just quote stuff and link it to a book which he claims to be some near and dear shia books.. and in evidance all he had is just one website referring to it.. the second book which I asked you in the thread of "A question on Quran and sunnah for guppies" you referred to some other book and all I can find on that book was a reference on some sunni forum... which referred to it and have about the same thing what you sais I doubt if thats where you got it from..... lol dude....
Re: original shia part 2
I'm sorry, I just want to make my intentions here clear. I do not want this to be a shia vs. sunni fight. From what I gather, it seems we believe in the same Quran and the same code of behavior. So there should be no fighting, nor snide remarks in this thread :)
I'm trying to figure out what the events were that took place after the Prophet's death that led to all this confusion and fighting between the Sahabah. When the Prophet was alive, they were all good friends. But when he died, the numerous Sahabah, who are supposed to be the closest people to the Prophet in friendship and loyalty, were bent upon fighting each other for power and for justice.
This does not make sense at all. It seems almost that even during the Prophet's lifetime, the Sahabah did not fully agree with one another.
I'd like to read a NON-BIASED and objective book on the events that took place after the Prophet's death - who did what and when. It really does seem to be that there were problems brewing under the surface even before the Prophet had died.
Interesting stuff. This is the kind of thing they dont teach you in Islamic school.
Re: original shia part 2
The term NON-BIASED is really quite sunjective,someone may be a unbiased according one person and biased according to another.
Of what i have read about these issues is that u can find 3 types of writers:
Shias or those with shiite inclinations
Anti shiites who just took a stance 180 degrees to shias
Sunnis who tried to make sense of what happened by finding justifications for what happened.
None of them is truely unbiased.Coz each considers certain people to be infallible or if not infallible highly respectable.
Re: original shia part 2
there are also non-muslim authors, one of whom did do a pretty extensive study into this issue, and is an emeritus professor of islamic history. it is the only academic research/study by a non Muslim historian that is specifically about this issue to my knowledge. however, he has been deemed to be biased by a poster on this board because he chose to argue that the shia view of history is more correct, whereas its illogical in my view to consider something unfairly biased just because its conclusive.
in case you still wish to give it a read its "Succession to Muhammad" by Wilfred Madelung
Re: original shia part 2
Raise his hand against a woman?
If I remember correctly Hazrat Ali (a.s.) sent Janabe-Ayesha’s brother to take her away after the war ended so that no harm comes her way or be it that a na-mehram touches her.
It’s seems you are not familiar with the status of Hazrat Bibi Fatima(a.s.) that the shias hold.
Sunni has a listing of 4 caliphs while shias have a listing of 5 which they call the Panjatan (The Pure Five)…
Hazrat Mohammad (pbuh)
Hazrat Ali (a.s.)
Hazrat Bibi Fatima(a.s.)
Hazrat Imam Hasan(a.s.)
Hazrat Imam Hussain(a.s.)
Moreover their are the “14 Masumeens (Infallible and sinless one)”
The Holy Prophet (pbuh)
Hazrat Bibi Fatima(a.s.) and
the 12 Imams
Re: original shia part 2
The Non-Muslim view is skewed towards the shiite view,this is quite understandable,coz shiites represent a group that has been discontent in Islamic history,they by and large kept themselves away from any confrontation that ever took place between Muslims and other religions,they rather have bad views of almost all great Muslim generals like Khalid Bin Waleed,Salahuddin Ayyubi etc,so no wonder Non Muslim will have a soft corner for them
Re: original shia part 2
Right, so if Bibi Fatima is part of the infallible Panjatan (by the way, infallibility extends to their lineage even after Hussain and Hasan - which is still not explained by anyone here),
then why is Bibi Fatima not supposed to be the next caliph?
Re: original shia part 2
I too have to ask some questions … 
But i guess Ladies first :k:
Re: original shia part 2
Even if she were to be an Imam, Bibi Fatima (as) passed away before Imam Ali (as). The succession to Imamat usually passes after the previous Imam's death.
Re: original shia part 2
Go ahead Codey.
Bibi Fatima was alive, Ma Mooli, when Ali supposedly should have taken over as first caliph, immediately after the Prophet's death. At that timepoint, no one would have known that she was going to die in a year.
Well, I suppose maybe Ali did, because he's so infallible, you know.
Re: original shia part 2
what u on about pcg, Imamat or khilafat? if your talking about khilafat, then ask sunnis members. I presume the answer for both would be that one of the criteria for Islamic leadership is a similiar criteria for Prophethood, i.e. you have to be male.
your all over the place.
Re: original shia part 2
^ true..some people make no sense