Operation in Waziristan

Ajju · October 21, 2009, 3:54am

Re: Operation in Waziristan

I don't think these numbers are accurate. The exact number of troops present in a theater of war is a closely guarded secret. I would not worry about a town changing hands temporarily. Some initial setbacks are expected, it will take some time to completely take over the area. Ultimately better supplies, better weapons and better troop strength will overwhelm the enemy (if morale remains high on Pakistani military side and small setbacks are not mourned too much).

I bet the Taliban leaders have already left the area for friendly environs in North Waziristan or North Baluchistan, waiting to make a come back later.

desert_bird · October 21, 2009, 3:56am

Re: Operation in Waziristan

I am not surprised at all.Do you think that that Wazirstan is an easy terrain. It is called **Valley of Death **from **2000 **years.After Mehsud death , why not Generals attacked this area when there was a much chaos in Taibans leadership because hey know that whats the meaning of entering this valley without burning mid night oil plans and strategy .Swat was just a piece of cake as compared to tribal area.Al-Qaeda last hope is Wazisrtan otherwise they have to loose thier most safe heaven in whole world. Recent bombings and attacks are just showing thier concern and frustraion .Aiman Al-Zahwari , himself commanding this operation from this area and TTP and thousands of local fighetrs of Lashkrai-Jhangvi , Jaisha-i-Muhammad and Harkat Jihad ul Islami are fighting under Al-Qaeda leadership.Just read below that why Russians , British like superpowers could not control this area.

In 1850, Lewat’s tribesmen the Great Baromi’s (Shabi Khel) defeated 3,000 British troops with only 300 fighters, using guerrilla tactics by attacking the British in the valley of Bobar (Waziristan) from all sides with outdated rifles and swords. This attack demoralized the British and made them fearful of the Mehsuds. Survivors of this attack reported that the sight of the Mehsud tribesmen charging at them (with loud roars and wearing long hair & beards) affected them mentally.

In 1860, three thousand Mahsud(Masood) tribesmen attacked the British regiment base in Tank (present South Waziristan). The British struggled to defeat them.

In 1897, Mujahed tribesmen again stood up against the British all the way from Chitral to Quetta, and the British experienced difficulty when engaging them. It was during this time that the name of Mullah Powindah emerged. Powindah comes from the Pashto language, meaning “nomad.”

Day after day, Mullah Powindah grew more popular and famous. He emerged as a legendary figure among the people of the region and beyond. There even was a time the British considered him to be the sole leader of the Waziristan country. His followers would sporadically kill individual English officers. However, the British were not be able to capture the attackers, who would return to their mountain hideouts. All attempts to stop these attacks were unsuccessful.

PS: I have heard that 60,000+ are in this operation including General Tariq leading FC ,and SSG units of Tarbela , PAF F-16s , Cobra Helicopters and best infantry divisons of Punjab which first fought at Swat Front .

Ajju · October 21, 2009, 4:06am

Re: Operation in Waziristan

While the terrain is tough, it is easier than Swat because the tree cover is not as thick and common.

desert_bird · October 21, 2009, 4:12am

Re: Operation in Waziristan

^^

The British colonial experience in Waziristan and its applicability to current operations(Chapter 5) :: Articles :: Pak Democracy

desert_bird · October 21, 2009, 4:22am

Re: Operation in Waziristan

**Maulvi Nazir group decides to stay neutral **

By Iqbal Khattak

PESHAWAR: The Ahmedzai Wazir tribe has succeeded in convincing Taliban leader Maulvi Nazir to stay neutral and not to side with Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan’s new leader Hakimullah Mehsud in the recently-launched military operation in South Waziristan, elders said on Sunday.

“Nazir is completely neutral,” tribal elders told Daily Times after meeting the Taliban leader, two days before the military launched Operation Rah-e-Nijat in the agency.

Last week, NWFP Governor Owais Ahmed Ghani called a 20-member jirga of elders and clerics to devise a strategy to neutralise warring tribes.

Maulvi Nazir said he had told Mehsud Taliban that they were not welcome in areas controlled by the Ahmedzai Wazirs.

Maulvi Nazir controls Wana, the headquarters of South Waziristan Agency, along with southern parts of the agency, while the military has launched its offensive against Hakimullah from the western, eastern and northern parts of the agency.

“We have told them not to come to our areas during the military operation,” Nazir told Ahmedzai Wazir elders at a meeting in Wana last week.

“I have snapped ties with them,” he went on to assure the elders, adding that he would not support Hakeemullah or give the military an “excuse” to expand the operation into Wazir areas.

But Maulvi Nazir’s “support” to the military comes at a price. Before the ceasefire could be brokered, the NWFP government agreed to a number of demands forwarded by the Ahmedzai Wazirs, including the reopening of blockaded roads and the launch of several development schemes worth millions in their areas.

But a delay in the fulfilment of their demands is annoying the Wazir elders.

“The government has honoured no single demand so far,” elders said.

Experts say the ceasefire guaranteed by Maulvi Nazir would help the military gain ground against the Taliban sooner. They said military planners would also be looking to “managing or neutralising” Taliban commander Hafiz Gul Bahadar in North Waziristan Agency to keep the northern front safe and secure against Hakimullah’s TTP.

Med911 · October 21, 2009, 4:40am

They will win regardless. Its really a matter of time. Setbacks will happen.

desert_bird · October 21, 2009, 5:15am

Re: Operation in Waziristan

We are eating our own fruits of Proxy Wars , Strategic Depth like bull**** and ‘achievements’ of Hamid Gul and Co. the ‘Bonapartist Conquerers’ of Kabul , Srinagar and Central Asia wetting their trousers in waving flag on Red Fort of Dehli !

hanibal · October 21, 2009, 8:29am

Re: Operation in Waziristan

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Battle for Kotkai intensifies as 20 Taliban killed
** Four soldiers killed in Taliban attack on positions around Hakeemullah’s hometown

Staff Report *

TANK: The army killed 20 Taliban on the fourth day of Operation Rah-e-Nijat against the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan in South Waziristan, the military said on Tuesday, as troops intensified the battle for control of Kotkai.

ehsan · October 21, 2009, 10:32am

Re: Operation in Waziristan

[admin]Stay focussed on the topic and stop derailing the thread.[/admin]

Mr_Dee · October 21, 2009, 10:38am

Great news… five low lives caught…!

5 members of Taliban shura arrested in Kohat

*"KOHAT: Five key members of Taliban shura arrested during security forces raid in Kohat.

According to sources, security forces nabbed five key members of Taliban shura, belonged to Matta, in a raid in Railway Colony. They have been shifted to undisclosed location for investigations. Earlier, 27 suspected persons were arrested during search operation in cantt area of Kohat."
*

Lafanter · October 21, 2009, 12:14pm

Re: Operation in Waziristan

It wont achieve anything. Just blood shed and even more bloodshed in response and it will go on. I dont see an end to this drama.

ehsan · October 21, 2009, 12:16pm

So what do you suggest?

shardmanny · October 21, 2009, 12:38pm

in the past when people have suggested ideas youve helped create an atmosphere where those people are labled as 'taliban sympathisers'

people have been saying DONT LAY YOUR BED LIKE THIS

at the next available opportunity, please listen

ehsan · October 21, 2009, 12:46pm

Suggesting soemthing short of surrender or something which is plausible can be listened to. However when people like you are told that it is Taliban who are killing innocent in Pakistan you help create an atmosphere where those people are labelled as "American lackeys". Next time open your eyes and listen and observe.

shardmanny · October 21, 2009, 12:55pm

ehsan, if it wasnt for american pressure to do something against fata tribals ttp would never have been born.

the american aspect is what makes this situation so difficult to rectify or stop from becoming worse at any one time

pakistan would have never had these waves of bombings if it was allowed to freely conduct its own policies without the american aspect (even after the friction started in 2004)

is there anything in above three paragraphs you disagree with?

Lafanter · October 21, 2009, 1:31pm

I suggest we roll back this whole war against terrorism drama. Stop being mercenaries. Give a very clear statement and tell Americans that It had nothing to do with us to start with. No one from Pakistan went to newyork to blow up those buildings.

We have made our own people our enemies by following US orders. Even Afghanistan had nothing to do with those buildings. If they have any proof they should bring it out in front of the world. We should be the judge to see if their evidence is even credible. Open your eyes, look what have they done to Iraq. Where are those weapons of mass destruction. They have destroyed the whole country and looting its oil. Few years back they helped Iraq to attack Iran. lol All they need is reason to get in Pakistan and destroy it and we are giving them the reason.

I dont know, I wasnt mature enough then but I remember in 2001-2002 PTV use to AIR programs and they were promoting the idea of supporting America on this war. Every guest used to “ohhhh Musharaf has taken a very good decision and bla bla” I didnt support the idea. We created taliban, we helped them establish a govt in Afghanistan. We created mujahideen, we made organisation to support them in Kashmir. We helped recruit many going into kashmir. I remember one of my school fellow went and got martyred in kashmir 1998. We raised funds at musjids… we did everything to support all these people. Least we could do is defend them. Defend our own people.

BUT unfortunately our leaders chose the way of beghairty as they had no balls and no one stood up to at least condemn the height of stupidity until the Lal Masjid incident. When govt become enemy puppets then ppl assume the role of sons of the nation. Look at Iraq, they are civilians fighting against Americans and doing what ever they can but they call them al-qaida and what not The reason for all this mess is that there is a sense in the people that our govt has become allies with the enimies for money or what ever and hence you see the results like attacks on FIA, Police and GHQ.

burqaposhx · October 21, 2009, 1:43pm

It is time we quit doing Matam on Pakistan and point out the real causes of this mess.

The cancer has been "Afghanistan" for the last 100 years (at least). They couldn't figure out a way to bring a stable system that provided justice to their ethnicities. They weren't smart enough to avoid becoming a lamb being eaten in the great game.

Have you ever studied the deep and bloody history between the majority Pashutns and minority Hazaras, Uzbeks, Tajiks etc. etc.

Do you know how cruel and merciless Pashtuns are with the Hazaras and other minorities?

What Afghanis have been doing to each other is pretty similar to what Rawandans Hutus and Tutsis tribals did to each other. Or perhaps Somalian Shababis are doing to the rest of Somalia.

Afghani Tribalism then resulted in Commie invasion all thanks to the Leftist and Socialists elements with Afghani Pashtun and non-Pashtun ruling elite.

While Afghan cancer continued spreading, different countries stepped in to exploit the situation.

And Pakistan was the most humble, and most concerned country because of our ethnic and geographic links with Afghanis.

You can all yell at Pakistan like a village mai, but for Allah's sake, do recognize that Pakistan was the only country in the region that truly wanted to stabilize Afghanistan.

Rest of the countries like Iran, Turkey, India, and Russia all wanted to divide Afghanis.

Unfortunately the Afghani tribal cancer has spread to Pak areas and we need to go and clean up the area.

Sadly some elements in Pakistan still support the tribal cancer, be it due to ethnic chauvinism, and religious fundamentalism.

burqaposhx · October 21, 2009, 1:52pm

Yet more bull cr@p. Pardon me for my French. But this type of terror-sympathizers will inshallah learn some day that they were wrong, utterly wrong.

What sort of American pressure would force you to burn your own house down and suicide bomb your own kids?

When did Americans ask and TTP goons complied to bomb girl schools and whip our daughters and sisters?

This sort of cruelty can only happen if TTP was born under Saudi/gulf charities and Qaida.

So put the blame where it is due! On the tribals themselves unless you think they are robots or made of clay.

Have you gone to some other world or something?

Quit supporting tribal madness and terrorism if you want Pakistan to survive as a forward looking and prosperous nation.

We all need to avoid the mistakes made by tribal Afghanis instead of blaming America, Israel, India, Martians, Tom, Dick, and Harry.

Jalaluddin · October 21, 2009, 2:01pm

did you watch the video you posted all the way? at the end it says the villagers said the guys who planted the Pak flag said "don't say anything against immigrants from Bangladesh". Try again.

now to the first part - how does a ULFA/M training camp explain how the Pak Army can be driven out of a town in Pakistan that they captured from the taleban? The ULFA/M clearly debunks any point you are trying to make in your own video.

Jalaluddin · October 21, 2009, 2:23pm

You were asking someone else these questions but my answer would be 'yes you're wrong in all three'.

There's nothing wrong with American pressure to control and act against terrorism inside Pakistan; Pakistan has a duty to ensure its territory is not used for terrorist camps, recruitment and fund raising. Besides, TTP has/had its own agenda of radical islamization of Pakistan. Why would you expect taleban of Afghanistan stop at the border?
the radicalization is more to do with funding from Saudi Arabia and perhaps Iran (on 2 different factions)
Pakistan did exercise its free will and conduct policy when joining the American forces against the Russians, right? And did someone force Pakistan government to train and support the so called mujahideen to attack us in Kashmir on a daily basis? Now these are the so called mujahideen that have rebranded and turned against Pakistan.

In other words my conclusion is that it is by free exercise of wrong policies by government of Pakistan that terrorism exists in the name of TTP or whetever else.