We [US] will go and find the wmds … and how we gona do that? Bomb the s$%^t outa bagdad .. pour in MORE wmds that they can make in a century … so what if millions are killed .. life in our country is more precious than in Iraq … their 10000 people = 1 of ours … oooo yeah!! We gona teach them a lesson and show the world what wmds really are …
Well, the US plans to drop more bombs in the first day of war, than were dropped in the whole first Gulf war.
But before they do that, what do they say to the Iraqis.... "hey! if u even think about using a missile filled with chemicals on us, we are gonna bust your chops!". Like the American missiles are gonna rain flowers and food for the Republican Guards. Doh!!!
It seems Bush's definition of WMD is more screwy than that of "sex" by Clinton (no pun intended).
For your own safety and freedom I am going to have to kill you. 
"hell, and while we're at it, we hope you don't mind us borrowin a tiny bit of your oil!'
Re: ooo yeah baby!
Someone in administration should make sure that no one stole Azkar’s password. From this 
to this 
in a few short days.
Here’s a message from me to you: 
azkar: It is sad but true. American lives are more important than the rest of the world. We are guaranteed constitutionally a pursuit towards happiness. Others should follow suit and then they won't have a chip on their shoulder.
Re: Re: ooo yeah baby!
aww… that is so sweet MV .. i wish it could be seen by the likes of Bush and this arrogant Chaltahai …
Dont worry azkar. In the end everyone gets their due...so will CH and so will GWB
This Theory of the Differential Value of Lives and Blood has always perplexed me a little bit.
The US does everything in its power to prevent any of its soldiers from dieing. (We were criticized by some in Gupshup for destroying the Taliban from the air instead of fighting like men on the ground.) On the other hand, the Palestinian suicide bomber is specifically set up to die. Does this mean that Americans value American blood more highly than Palestinians value Palestinian blood.
The Palestinians embarked upon the present Intifada specifically knowing or recklessly indifferent to the fact that Palestinian casualties would exceed Israeli casualties by a factor of at least three to one. Does this mean that Palestinians value Israeli lives as worth three times that of Palestinian lives?
Or, since one Palestinian bomber is supposed to kill scores of Israeli women and children, do the Palestinians value the suicide bomber’s life as 20 times more valuable than the Israelis he kills?
Similarly, 19 highjackers killed about 3,000 Americans on three planes, in the WTC and at the Pentagon. Did that mean that these Islamic terrorists valued each of their lives as worth about 150 Americans?
Would it be all that wrong for a government to value the lives of its citizens as worth more than the lives of the citizens of some other country? If that is wrong, must nations at war try to equalize the casualties on both sides or suffer condemnation for undervaluing the lives of others?
Even further, should we congratulate a government as taking the high moral ground by deliberately taking more casualties among its citizens than it inflicts on those attacking it?
If war is what Gen. Patton suggested (i.e. making the other poor dumb b*st*rd die for his country), is there a ratio that it would be uncivilized to exceed? In other words, is it OK to kill three times as many of the enemy when compared to your own casualty rate, but killing five times as many of the enemy is a war crime?
Maybe one of you who criticizes America for valuing its own people’s blood more highly than it values Muslim blood could explain this Theory of the Differential Value of Lives and Blood in more understandable terms.
I am not sure about the “Theory of the Differential Value of Lives and Blood”, but just for the sake of argument … if you give Palestinians a few dozen F-16s, a few hundred Tomahawk missiles, predators armed with HellFire missiles, some Bunker Busters, a bunch of tanks and LAV, a few war-ships and a couple of aircraft carriers… u will surprisingly notice that there are no more suicide bombers in them, anymore.
Its all a matter of options. Palestinians don’t have the options which Israelis or the Americans have in terms of weaponery. So they try to make it up with suicide bombing and inflicting maximum damage through available resources. They lose their lives, but try to inflict as much casualties as possible on the other side as well.
“Theory of the Differential Value of Lives and Blood”, yea rite! :k:
Faisal:
From your answer I surmise that you think it would be all right for the Palestinians to use their assumed military hardware to kill as many Israelis as possible. Certainly, to kill more Israelis than the Israelis are killing Palestinians. I would agree with you. That’s war. But does that not then open them up to the charge that they are valuing Palestinian blood and lives more highly than Israeli lives and blood?
I guess I just don’t see what is wrong with that. I would never vote for a guy who said he valued my blood and life and that of my family and/or fellow citizens the same as he valued the blood and life of terrorist scum who wanted to harm us.
Well, u r talking about "Theory of the Differential Value of Lives and Blood" as if it is in vacuum. Suicide bombers don't strap themselves because they have an incessant desire to kill themselves. They do so out of desperation. If, hypothetically, the Palestinians have as much weaponery or comparable weaponery as Israel, you will see an almost complete stop to all violence, and Israel scrambling to get to the negotiating table.
So, its not who's life is richer than the other.. but who has the opportunity to kill without risking their own lives.
Americans have the luxury to drop missiles from the sky, without sending their G.I's on the ground. Iraqis or Afghanis didn't had this luxury. Do any of them value their lives more. You bet! Its human instinct. Better you die than me.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: * Do any of them value their lives more. You bet! Its human instinct. Better you die than me.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with that. Thanks for the discussion. I think next time someone says something like: "The US values American blood or lives more than (pick someone else's) blood or lives," I'll just say: "Yep. So what of it?"
In what way do we call this a civilized era! First we tolerate a dictator such as Saddam Hussein gassing entire village(s). Now we watch helplessly as a handful of idiots have taken over Washington, and the rest of the government is genuflucting profusely to cover their respective fat a$$es! Right now I am so disgusted with being human.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
Theory of the Differential Value of Lives and Blood
[/QUOTE]
???
Number of Americans killed during the first Gulf War: 148
Number of Iraqis killed during the first Gulf War: 100,000
Number of Americans killed during the Vietnam War: 58,000
Number of Vietnamese killed during the Vietnam War: 5.1 million
I duno what was the ratio in WWII .. but it was somefin on the same lines ....
Theory of the Differential Value of Lives and Blood ? Still?
AC
ps: this is not to say who was at fault and who wasnt .. this is just a number count .. If US was SOOOOO concerned about the 'Theory of the Differential Value of Lives and Blood' why dont they just go in and kill Saddam .. I swear to God, I am all for it ... Go, Go Go!!! Its as ILLEGAL as the war now ... but LOT more safer for the general public ...
ahhh .. what do I hear? 'he is impossible to catch .. we tried 6 times in the last decade .. couldnt kill him' ... now we gona do the carpet bombing and he WILL be killed for sure ... Aha!! Now I see!! Me learning ...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
.....
The US does everything in its power to prevent any of its soldiers from dieing. (We were criticized by some in Gupshup for destroying the Taliban from the air instead of fighting like men on the ground.) On the other hand, the Palestinian suicide bomber is specifically set up to die. Does this mean that Americans value American blood more highly than Palestinians value Palestinian blood. ......
[/QUOTE]
Give Palestinians same weapons i.e. Tanks, Missiles, F-16 then you'll see what you want i.e. no suicide bombers :)
Azkar:
Are you suggesting that the US objective in the Gulf War should have been to equalize the casualties between Iraqi soldiers and US soldiers? You seem to have a problem that more Iraqi soldiers died than American soldiers. If you don't think that we should have aimed to equalize casualties, what, in your view, would have been an acceptable ratio. If we killed 100,000 Iraqis, would 50,000 American casualties have been satisfactory?
In your view, if the US objective is to make us safer from another attack like 911 or one much worse, how many Iraqis are we allowed to kill to meet that objective? For the sake of argument, let's presume that we will save 10,000 American citizens from death in another attack and spare ourselves $2 trillion in economic losses that also have negative human costs. Now, you tell me, what is an acceptable number of Iraqis that we can kill to do it? You place a value on the lives.
beeep ... got me wrong again ... I was quoting the figures so far ... I dont want ANY life wasted ... Not by that idiot SH or by the US forces .. I respect and value life .. EQUALLY! .... [unlike the US govt's curent policy .. which is we will KILL any number to get Saddam]
Azkar, you must have been very depressed when Pak Army butchered roughly 3 million Bengalis. Life has no consideration when change has to occur. There's no use condemning the Americans if they happen to kill a few. By far, more Muslims have been killed by fellow Muslims, and not by the US or Israel. And that's a fact. The life those Iraqis are living is not worth a splash of pee on the wall, but it is about to be changed for better (and forever). Inshallah.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Azkar Choudhry: *
beeep ... got me wrong again ... I was quoting the figures so far ... I dont want ANY life wasted ... Not by that idiot SH or by the US forces .. I respect and value life .. EQUALLY! .... [unlike the US govt's curent policy .. which is we will KILL any number to get Saddam]
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I've got to pin you down on this one. In theory it sounds real great that you say you value life equally. But what does that mean? You pointed out the disparate casualties in two wars as if there was something wrong with that.
You go on to say that it is US policy to kill any number to get Saddam. I asked you and ask you again to suppose that US policy is to "save 10,000 American citizens from death in another attack and spare ourselves $2 trillion in economic losses that also have negative human costs." You may not believe that is the real policy but most of us in America believe that it is (although the actual numbers of casualties and economic losses we are trying to avoid are unknown). If that is the policy, how many do you think we should be allowed to kill to implement it? If we cannot limit the Iraqi casualties to just one man (Saddam), are you saying we must just sit back and absorb our loss? Or, will it be OK to save 10,000 American lives if we only kill 10,000 Iraqis?
Your nice sounding generalities staking out a morally correct principle do nothing to flesh out tough decisions based on cold, hard practical realities.