Only Muslims would go to Heaven!!! Period.....

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Achtung, you asked for it…

I copied the last three responses so that it would be easy for the others to understand.

iqadeer
Senior Member
posted June 14, 1999 11:59 AM

Assalam Allaikum Achtung,
This article was posted by me in full sincerety without any motive to put you or
anyone else down or to prove you wrong. The article in itself deals with the questions
of the jews and the christians quite effectively, and also happens to be a verdict of a
world-renowned Alim. If after reading the article there is some confusion or lingering
doubts in your mind please make dua to Allah subhanu taallah to clear them. In my
humble opinion it has stated all the principles according to the Quran and the hadith
to determine the status of those who call themselves christians or jews in today’s
world. Regards and dua.

               [This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited June 14, 1999).]

                                                                                IP: Logged

Achtung
Senior Member
posted June 15, 1999 02:08 AM

               Iqadeer: "This article was posted by me in full sincerety without any motive to put
               you or anyone else down or to prove you wrong."

               I understand. And I'm glad you posted the article.

               I'm on the verge of changing my opinion. Thanks for quoting the correct verses MNI
               (they are self explanatory). The only confusion which remains (at least with me) is in
               reference to 2:62 and 5:69. If indeed these verses are referring to the Jews and
               Christians of the past, how are they different from the Jews and Christians of the
               present and further why are Sabians included in the verse. The reason I ask, is
               because to the best of my knowledge, these groups both pre and post Muhammad
               have rejected the message of Islam. So why has Allah given pre-Muhammad,
               Christians, Jews and Sabians, the possibility of entering heaven? What is the
               difference between the two groups? Jews rejected Isa, Christians associated Isa with
               Allah, they both continue to do so today, so why does 2:62 and 5:69 discriminate
               between present day non-believers and past non-believers?

               Iqadeer wrote: "If after reading the article there is some confusion or lingering doubts
               in your mind please make dua to Allah subhanu taallah to clear them."

               Good advice. I'm hoping you can also help me clear some of this "confusion". 

               msaqibj - I can't answer those questions, still struggling to understand.

               By the way, can we start a new thread, this one is getting difficult to open (its too
               long). Thanks,

               Achtung 

                                                                                IP: Logged

Asif
Senior Member
posted June 15, 1999 03:52 AM

               Achtung,

               The difference between pe-Islamic and post-Islamic Christians is that UNTIL THE
               COMING OF RASOOL ALLAH SAL ALLAHU ALAYHI WA SALLAM AND THEIR
               PROCLAMATION OF PROPHETHOOD, THE SHARIAH OF ISA ALAYHI SALAAM WAS
               VALID; those who truly followed the actual message of Isa alayhi salaam were going
               to jannat; but once our beloved master sal allahu alayhi wa sallam's prophethood was
               revealed, it abrogated the shariah of isa alayhi salaam and henceforth--until
               qiyaamat--only Huzoor Paak's shariat is valid.

               I hope that clears you doubts
2

Brothers Salam Masnoon

Those who followed previous prophets of thier time,they were muslims, and will go to Jannah ( insha Allah). Those who rejected the message even at the time of prophet ( of thier time) they will go into Hell fire.So Quran in 2:62 or similar ayas talks about those who followed the prophet of thier time ( Moses, Jesus, etc). I shall add this also that todays Ummah will enter in jannah, if they accept the message of Rasul Ullah SAW. Those who will reject, will find their destiny in the Hell fire. May Allah make us from the people who acctepted Islam and followed it completely.
Allah Knows best

Vassalam

3

Brother Abrar:
That is exactly what my believes are.
Those Jews who believed in Moses (PBUH) as a messenger of Allah (not as the son of GOD)and they did not reject the acceptance of Jesus (PBUH) will go to Heaven. All those Jews would go to Hell fire who rejected to accept the Prophethood of Jesus (PBUH) he announced his Prophethood.
All the Christians who believed in Jesus (PBUH) as a messenger of Allah (again not as the son of Allah) will go to Heaven until Prophet Muhammad (SAW) announced HIS Prophethood and After the declaring HIM as a messenger and Prophet of Allah, if some one do not believe in Muhammad (SAW) will go to hell fire.

All the Mushrakeen and Kuffaaar will, definitely, go to hell fire with out any question about the time and Prophethood of any Prophet (PBUT).

4

MNI:
Would you tell us if you are practing any religion?

You said

[quote]
Now all the above is what a mullahwill tell you. That's how the theologians have resolved a contradiction. This is what I believed when I was a believing Muslim.
[/quote]

So tell us what religion do you practice now.

Other thing after you used the word I highlighted in your quote, I am so right to call you whatever I am pleased to, but I would let you go this time.

5

Msaqibj,
Are you feeling all right ?

Nobody has to tell you more than their opinion on the subject under discussion; so, chill out.

Anyways, it's good to see back in the 'swing' mode again!

6

Adbulmalick:
First of all my question was not directed to you, if you understand the point?

Second I have advised you so many times that it is batter for you to keep cutting and posting because you can not write the good words from your own. Look in your post, wherever you have to write a word from your own, the only words come out of your minds are the similar which I highlighted in the general section under a thread "History repeats itself...". These are the only types of words you can write from your own.

So go back and do some more "cutting and posting" job.

7

Yeah! you are in a swinging mode all right!

By the way, now that you have made jannat (paradise)exclusive domain of muslims; and, you are entitled to delude in that opinion!

Now, how about going a little further and clarifying - will all muslims go to jannat or only your special kinda breed or Sunnis will only go to Jannat?

Again, hope you will do us all proud!

8

How about these muslims??????
Would they go to heaven tooooo

            ISLAMIC INVASION by Robert Morey
            On Jihad (Holy War)


            A call To Jihad by 
            Sheik Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Hamid, Sacred Mosque of Mecca, Saudi Arabia
            (vol. 1, pgs. xxii-xl). This is the 
            most frank Muslim discussion of Jihad we have ever read. Indeed, it tries to
            stimulate and motivate Muslims to engage in Jihad today. According to Sheik
            Abdullah bin Muhammad 
            bin Hamid, Muhammad,

            commanded the Muslims to fight against all the pagans as
            well as against the people of the scriptures [Jews and
            Christians] if they do not embrace Islam, until they pay the
            Jizya [a tax levied on the Jews and the Christians who do
            not embrace Islam] (p. xxiv).

            There is the Jihad of the sword. People are to be either converted or subdued
            through the violence of military force (vol. 
            1, p. xxii).

            This is the driving force behind Muslim violence in Africa today. In such countries as
            Nigeria and Sudan, hundreds of 
            thousands of Christians and pagans have been brutally slaughtered or enslaved in
            the name of Jihad because they would 
            not convert to Islam.

            Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to
            fight you till you worship Allah alone or give Jizya (vol. 4,
            no. 386).

            There is the Jihad of taxation. Those who refuse to embrace Islam must pay a
            special tax called Al-Jizya (vol. 4, chap. 
            21, pgs. 251-252). This financial burden suppresses non-Muslims and makes their
            life as hard as possible.

            There is the Jihad of financial reward. In Iraq, a free university education has been
            offered to any Christian or Jew who 
            will embrace Islam. A "bounty" of one thousand dollars has been offered to any
            South African black who will renounce 
            Christianity and embrace Islam. They will also be paid $500 for any other blacks
            they convert to Islam.

            It has been quite common to tell Americans and Europeans that if they want to
            continue to work in the oil business in 
            Saudi Arabia, they must convert to Islam. No church is allowed to be built on Saudi
            soil in the attempt to suppress 
            Christian worship.

            There is the Jihad of fear. The death penalty is applied to anyone who renounces
            Islam and embraces another religion 
            such as Christianity. As this book goes to print, there are Christians being tortured
            in prison in Egypt whose only "crime" 
            was to convert to Christianity.

            There is the Jihad of slavery. The only place in the world where black chattel slavery
            is practiced today is in Muslim 
            countries. The London Economist (1/6/90) reported that the Sudanese Muslims are
            presently capturing and then selling 
            black women and children of the Dinka Christian Tribe for as little as $15 a head!
            Even the UN released a report on 
            slavery that points out that the Muslims are still enslaving blacks. This has also
            been pointed out in the May 4, 1992 
            special edition of Newsweek on slavery.

            Non-Muslim women who go to Saudi Arabia to work as maids are often enslaved by
            their Muslim employers, beaten, 
            and raped at will. When they try to escape, the Saudi government will not let them
            leave the country but returns them to 
            their masters.

            There is the Jihad of the courts. Non-Muslims are denied equal access to and equal
            protection before the law because 
            their testimony in court is not valid against a Muslim (vol. 3, chap. 31, pgs.
            525-526). This applies even to murder!

            No Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel (vol. 4, no. 283; vol. 9, no. 50).

            There is a Jihad after death. A Muslim is "to fight on [Muhammad's] behalf in his
            lifetime and after his death" (vol. 1, 
            chapter 43).

            There is the Jihad of Paradise. Any Muslim who is killed while fighting in a Jihad will
            go straight to the sexual pleasures of 
            Paradise (vol. 1, no. 35; vol. 4, no. 386).

            "The Call To Jihad (Fighting For Allah's Cause In The Holy Qur'an) by Sheik
            Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Hamid 
            (Sacred Mosque of Mecca, Saudi Arabia).

[This message has been edited by johnd (edited June 15, 1999).]

9

I have closed the previous thread so that discussion can be continued here. Following is iqadeer's latest reply:

Assalam Allaikum Achtung,
I am glad that you have been able to learn something from the article. As to your question relating to the verses, I have found an opinion of a scholar, namely Sheikh Al-Saleh Munnajid, which I am posting here. I hope that it answers most of your concerns. Here it is:
Praise be to Allaah.
quote:

What you refer to in your question is mentioned in two similar aayaat
in the Qur’aan. The first of them is the aayah (interpretation of the
meaning): “Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and
Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allaah and the Last
Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their
Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” [al-Baqarah
2:62]
The second is the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “Surely,
those who believe, those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the
Christians – whosoever believed in Allaah and the Last Day, and
worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they
grieve.” [al-Maa’idah 5:69]
In order to understand these aayaat correctly, we need to refer to the
scholars of Tafseer (Qur’aanic commentary). The great Imaam
Ismaa’eel ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his
tafseer of the aayah from Soorat al-Baqarah:
“Allaah, may He be exalted, points out that whoever of the previous
nations did well and was obedient, will have a good reward, and this
will be the case for everyone who follows the Unlettered Prophet
[Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)
until the Hour comes – he will have eternal happiness, and they will
not fear what they are going to face, nor will they grieve for what they
have left behind. As Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘No
doubt! Verily, the awliya’ of Allaah [i.e., those who believe in the
Oneness of Allaah and fear Allaah much, and love Allaah much], no
fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve.’ [Yoonus 10:62].
And Allaah tells us what the angels say to the believers at the time of
death (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, those who say, “Our
Lord is Allaah,” then they istaqaamu [stood straight, i.e., truly
followed Islam], on them the angels will descend (at the time of their
death) (saying): “Fear not, nor grieve! But receive the glad tidings
of Paradise which you have been promised!”’ [Fussilat 41:30]
As far as the Jews are concerning, their faith meant believing in the
Tawraat (original Torah) and following the way of Moosa (peace be
upon him) until ‘Eesa came, after which whoever continued to follow
the Torah and the way of Moosa, and did not leave this and follow
‘Eesa, was doomed. As far as the Christians are concerned, their faith
meant believing in the Injeel (original Gospel) and following the laws
of ‘Eesa; whoever did this was a believer whose faith was acceptable
to Allaah, until Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him) came, after which whoever did not follow Muhammad
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and leave the way of
‘Eesa and the Injeel that he had been following before, was doomed.
The aayah (interpretation of the meaning), “And whoever seeks a
religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in
the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] is a
statement that Allaah will not accept any way or deed from anyone,
after sending His Final Messenger, except those that are in accordance
with the laws of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him). Prior to this, however, anyone who followed the Prophet
of his own time was on the Straight Path of salvation. So the Jews
were those who followed Moosa (peace be upon him) and referred to
the Tawraat for judgement at that time. When Allaah sent ‘Eesa
(peace be upon him), the Children of Israel were obliged to follow him
and obey him, and so they and others who followed him became
Christians.. When Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of
Allaah be upon him), as the Final Prophet and a Messenger to all the
children of Adam, all of mankind was obliged to believe in him and
obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited. Those who did so are
the true believers. The ummah (nation) of Muhammad (peace and
blessings of Allaah be upon him) are called the believers because of
their deep eemaan (faith) and conviction, and because they believe in
all the past Prophets and in the prophesied events that are yet to
come.”
Commenting on the aayah in Soorat al-Baqarah, Ibn Katheer (may
Allaah have mercy on him) said:
“What is meant is that every group believed in Allaah and the Last
Day, which is the appointed Day of Reckoning, and did righteous
deeds. But after Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him) was sent to both mankind and the jinn, true belief can only
be in accordance with the way of Muhammad (peace and
blessings of Allaah be upon him). Whoever follows his way will not
fear the future or grieve for what they leave behind.

10

Msaqibj:

I didn't stop you from calling names. Please feel free to do so. I will not go whining to the moderator.
Did I not say that I am an agnostic?

MNI

11

Adbulmalick:

[quote]
Now, how about going a little further and clarifying - will all muslims go to jannat or only your special kinda breed or Sunnis will only go to Jannat?
[/quote]

Please read my statement again:

It says

"Only Muslims would go to Heaven, Every one else would go to Hell Fire, Period"

So you tell me what this statement tell you about my believes?

Deciding On the Base of Personal Feelings Tells How Low People Act at Controlling Positions.

[This message has been edited by msaqibj (edited June 16, 1999).]

12

Salam Masnoon
Abdulmalik wrote:By the way, now Abulmalik>that you have made jannat paradise)exclusive domain of muslims; and, you are entitled to delude in that opinion!

As far as I see this thread, no one ever tried to decide the fate of Jews and Christians except Allah. Brothers only qouted verses of Quran which clearly mention the destiny of non belivers ( whether Christians, Jews, and all non belivers of this time, of prior the Prophet Muhammed SAW) as Hellfire.

Vassalam

[This message has been edited by abrar (edited June 16, 1999).]

13

Boys

This the the exact reason why I keep equating Fundamentalist Islam to extremism!
You are openly preaching hatred towards others! Can God preach hatred?

A group, that can abrogate other religions and condemn them to hell, can also do same for other muslim sects, which was already done in this Forum when Shia muslims were deemed kafirs & jahannami; and msaqibj was part of that discussion.

Do I care what this group says?
No, I wouldn't even give them the time of the day!

14

Thanks for the article Iqadeer.

Foremost, I still do not understand why sabians are included in 2:62 and 5:69, they rejected the message of all Prophets of Islam (including the Prophets considered legitimate in Judaism and Christianity).

Further, those who followed the 'correct' message of Isa and Moosa, were not Christians or Jews but Muslims (according to Muslims - Abraham was the father of Islam, etc). Those who corrupted the message, did so prior to the coming of Muhammad and they continue to do so today. I'm not convinced that the rejection of Prophet Muhammad is enough to bestow mercy on past Ahl al Kitab. Jews of the past rejected Isa, why are the Jews born prior to the messengership of Muhammad provided the possibility of entering heaven? They rejected the message of a legitamite and extremely important Prophet of Islam.

MNIs contradiction in the Quran theory is starting to look attractive.

Achtung (still confused)

15

Would Yazid also go to Heaven, after paying his dues.

16

Adbulmalick:
You can bash at me, no problem, but please do not lie. Because a liar can only ruin himself and can not make any damage to "msaqibj"

I am not surperised seeing all the Extremist Hindus and well-wishers of Hindus after "msaqibj" with their false allegations on all the forums. I can take care of all of you at the same time withour fearing your scary warnings.

Instead of answering my statement you accused me some thing which I did not do.

Here is my challenge to you MR. Adbulmalick:
Prove it or you are a LIAR

"Find a single line in my all posts where I Said that *Shias are Kafirs"*.

I am sure you can not find it, all you can do is come up with an other false allegations.

Go Ahead and keep doing that, you are actually severing your real masters.

I do not ask you for any appology because asking something good from a person like you is no even worth of my words.

Deciding On the Base of Personal Feelings Tells How Low People Act at Controlling Positions.

[This message has been edited by msaqibj (edited June 17, 1999).]

17

Excuse me saqib! I said you were PART of that discussion - kapish! There's a difference!

Anyways, that discussion did take place and the participants included the scripture toting & quoting mullah-wannabes of this forum.

Are you now claiming that discussion did not take place? Why is it a surprise?

If you all can outlaw the world's other faiths and denigrate them to being 'kafir'. What's stopping you from doing the same to the other sects of Islam - and, where does it stop ?

As I said in my previous post and earlier & earlier posts - Fundamentalist Islam is Faulty, Outdated and Primitive. The Sharia should have laws enshrined in it for the protection of minority & women against exactly such extremist interpretations.

18

Adbulmalick:

[quote]
A group, that can abrogate other religions and condemn them to hell, can also do same for other muslim sects, which was already done in this Forum when Shia muslims were deemed kafirs & jahannami; and msaqibj was part of that discussion.
[/quote]

What message did you try to convey in your above quoting?
Was "msaqibj" the only one participating in that thread?
Did not your quoting give a concept that "msaqibj" was among those people who called Shia, Kafir?

By twisting your own words, what exactly, you are trying to prove?

Stop stating the false statements.

We love the Islam in its original form.
We love the Islam which were given to us by Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
We love the Islam which were given to us by Allah (SWT) more than 1400 years ago.
We love to stick with the same Islam and with the same rules.

IF you do not like to obey the Islam of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), no body ask you to follow it.

This Islam could be out dated for the western slaves but for the Muslims, it is as fresh as it was 1400 years ago.

So if you do not like the Islam, we are not twisting your arm to call yourself a Muslim.

If you want to update something then update your own brain.

Deciding On the Base of Personal Feelings Tells How Low People Act at Controlling Positions.

[This message has been edited by msaqibj (edited June 17, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited June 17, 1999).]

19

Dear Folks:
This thread was meant to discuss the fate of non-muslims.
But I find one person is trying his best to creat tension between two sections of Islam.
Please beaware of people like this one because people like this person can do any thing to please his western masters.

Deciding On the Base of Personal Feelings Tells How Low People Act at Controlling Positions.

20

Ok, msaqibj, I think you have used the word 'Western Masters' just about enough times on this forum to associate it with another member. That's about how many times I am gonna allow it.

Be careful in your usage of the expression next time.