ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

:salam2:

Previous reference: Part_‘A’

**Part ‘B’
**
Until recently historians had a notion that the Indo-Aryans were the first architects of Indian civilisation. But the twentieth century witnessed a revolution, as it were, in Indian history just as in many other fields. It has now been proved beyond doubt that a progessive culture existed in India even before the Aryans set foot here.

The history of India had to be rewritten, following explorations conducted, during 1922 - 1927, in Mohenjo-daro in Larkana district in Sindh and in **Harappa **in Montgomery district in Punjab. An organized and well-ordered culture was discoverd to have grown up in Sapta-Sindhu even as early as 5,000 years ago. Sir John Marshall, who led those archaeological investigations, ahs christened in the Mohenjo-daro Indus civilisation flourished on the banks of the River indus and of the Ravi, on of its tributaries.

Archaeologist have also calculated the probable date of the Indus Valley civilisation, as having existed between 3250 and 2750 B.C. with this, the history of Indian culture has been pushed back by many centuries. But then whose were the hands that built up the cultural edifice in Sapta-Sindhu? Scholars in general suggest they could not have been those of the Aryan people to home the Vedic and other literatures belong. They tell us that there is little discernible identity between the Indus people and the Aryans in physiognomy, language or religion. The ancient literatures of the Aryan tribesmen indicate that they were fair-complexioned, whereas the Indus valley inhabitant were brown in colour. Similarly, many other things like their facial shape, stature, mode od fessing and dress differed from thos of the Aryans. Writes T.C. Sankara Menon:

*“What do the relics tell us of the stature, facial feature, and the manners of dressing of the residents of the Indus Valley? We know their stature from the skeletons exhumed from their graves. Information regarding their facial shape, general complexion and dress may be gathered from the pictures, in colour and otherwise, on vessels, wall etc., and from statuettes and the like. It is assumed that their face was fairly long, with a long nose. In their picutres they appear a little brown in colour, with black hair. It may be conjectured that they were mostly dwarfish and that men often grew a beard. Their hair is seen to have been pulled to a mass to the back. Men wore sort of strangely embroidered garment, leaving the right shoulder bare.”
*
Sanskrit was the language of the Aryans. All their ancient literatures are written in Sanskrit. But the language of the Indus Valley coccupants was not Sanskrit. Their language is inscribed on thousand of seals obtained rom excavations. They used a kind of pictographic script, which has not so far been deciphered.

For these reasons archaeologists have come to the conclusion that the occupants of Indus Valley were different from the Aryans people. Who then were they? What race did they belong to? As for the answer, archaeologist have not been able to take a definite and unanimous stand. However, the conclusions cited below deserve particular attention. Say Majumdur Raychaudari and Datta in An Advanced History of India.

Lastly, there is the question of the race of the poeple among whom the Indus Valley civilisation grew…Some hold that they were the same as the Sumerians, while other hold tha they were Dravidians. Some again believe that these two were identical.

Yes, some scholars hold that the authors of the Indus culture were Dravidians. Some other go a step further and hold that the Dravidians belong to one and the same ethnic group as the Sumerians of West Asia. In his **Hindu Civilisation, **Jayaswalal records that one school of archaeologist suggest that even in 6000 B.C. commercial intercourse had taken place between Western Indian and Sumer and that Sumerians and Dravidians resemble each other linguistically as well as ethnically.

Excavations have provided various evidence to corroborate the conclusion that the Sumerians and the people of the Indus Valley were commercially related. Not what Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, quoting the eminent scholar Gordon Childe, record in the Discovery of India:

These people of the Indus Valley had many contacts with the Sumerian civilisation of that period and there is even some evidence of an Indian colony, probably of merchants, at Akkad. ‘Manufactured goods from the Indus cities reahed even the markets of the Tigris and Euphrates. Conversely, a few Sumerian devices in art, Mesopotamian toilet sets and cylinder seal were copied on the Indus. Trade was not confined to raw materials and luxury articles; fish, regularly imported from the Arabian sea coasts, augmented the food supplies of Mohenjodaro’.

Seals of Indian traers have been obtained from distant places including Mesopotamia. Exports from the Indus Valley included cotton cloth and perfumes. Seals found in ancient Mesopotamian cities like Ur, Lagash, Susa, and Tell Asmar speak of Indian trades.

The Sumerians and the Sindhs were related not by commerce alone; there was betwen them religious and moral affinity as well. Rahul Samkrityayan, an Indian Scholar, writes:

It has been stated in the author’s book, Mankind, that before Aryans ever came to India, civilized sect had existed in Assyria (Mesopotamia) in the Indus Valley, and that their sucessors had attained comparatively greater heights than the ancient Aryan community that began entering Afghanistan.

The Mesopotamians who came and settled in the Indus Valley were Sumerians - in other words, the offspring of Noah a.s. It was out of this lineage that the Dravidian group took its birth. Indeed, in the opinion of archaeologist, Sumerians and Dravidians from one ethnic group. Thus, it was from the Sumerians that the earlier Indian culture originated. And they were the offspirngs of Noah a.s.

References:

-Ibid P-197, 206
-An advanced History of India, by Majumdar Raychaudhuri & Datta, 3rd End P-23
-Hindu Civilisation, Jayashwalal; quoted by Krishnanandaswami, in his short book, 'Caste Struggle in India P-11-
What happened in history, Gordon Childe (Pelican Books) P 112; quoted by Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru in his The Discovery of India PP 67-68 (1st edn 1046).
-Indian Antiquity, short Archealogical book in Malayalam by Dr Ayyappan (a Mathrubhumi Publication) PP 71-72
-Rahul Samkrityayan writes in his Darshan-Digadarshan, a critical book on philosophy in Hindi.
-Perspective of the World PP 54-541.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

um.. Noah is a myth, lets not confuse fact with fiction. Also, Sumerian, not Summerian. Dravidian, not Darvidian. Mesopotamia, not Mesopotamina :smack:

If you want to associate the indus valley people as being non-aboriginals to their own land - one of the most fertile birth-places of agriculture isolated from the rest of the world by harsh plateaus and mountains (so this is a big if), the most promising theory is the Elamo-Dravidian one. Not a Sumerian migration.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Peace queer,

Noah a.s. is not a myth but He is a True Prophet chosen by One True God 'Almighty Allah'.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

that is a religious belief, but not a factual one. Sumerian religion has zero mention of any Noah. to call them descendants of Noah is like saying the quraysh is a tribe founded by Will Smith.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Peace queer,

Itna rude answer kiyon?

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

rude nahi meray bhai, you are claiming your religious beliefs on top of real facts - Sumerians and other Mesopotamians have flourished for almost a millenia, and now you come along and try to write them into your narrow religious point of view, boxing them into something they have never been.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

La La ji :hugz:

‘Quraish tribe founded by Will Smith’ rude answer nahi hy to or kiya hy :hoonh:

If you click on the reference in post #1 than u’ll came to know that what i wrote here is from a book. I found that book interesting so shared with u guyz neither I claimed nor I wrote by my own.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

it wasn't meant to be rude - just giving you an example of how the claim the original post is making is just that ridiculous.

but while on topic of quraysh, i recently had an iranian friend tell me that the quraysh tribe is originally descendants of the persian king Koresh (Cyrus the great). i wonder if there is any truth to that.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Peace queer,

I'm afraid he's wrong :) "Koresh" or "Quraish" was the nickname of 'Fahar bin Malik', deceendants of Hazrat Ismail a.s. :)

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

This article is stretching known historical facts a little. The Sumerians and Harappans were contemporaries with possible trade contacts . Another thing is Noah is a part of religion and mythology . The sumerians were the world first monarchy with a priest-king who was "divinely" appointed. Studies point to the fact that Harappans were the world's first "democracy". Archeologist Jonathan Mark Kenoyed has speculated that the Harappan rulers were merchants, ritual specialists and individuals controlling important resources, instead of just one social group controlling the rest.
The Sumerians appear to have developed the wheel and possibly the sailboat and the Harappans developed ox-carts and small flat-bottomed boats all of which were used commercially. Perhaps it is because of the extensive trade between the two civilizations that they developed similarly in many areas.
In the areas of science, the Sumerians were concerned with studying the stars and developed the twelve-month lunar calendar and the zodiac to measure time.The Harappans developed the first standardized system of weights and measures. Their measurements were extremely precise, the smallest division being equivalent to 1.704 millimeters. They carefully planned their cities and the building of their houses to make them symmetrical.
Sumerian art was strictly religious in nature, the Harappans appear to have loved art simply because it was art. The Sumerians’ preferred mediums were sculpting and painting. They also inlayed and enriched wood with scenes made of shells and semiprecious stones and did relief carvings in stone, but almost always these pieces of art were for their gods. In contrast the Harappans celebrated all art, but especially the arts of dancing, painting, pottery, modeling, weaving and metal working. They were very skilled in all these areas. Their pottery is of very high quality. The anatomical details found in their modeling are far superior for their time. It is generally accepted that the Harappan art is much more advanced than any other of its time, including the Sumerians.
Archeological evidence suggests both were polytheistic.
As for the flood myth, historically speaking, there is no mention of Noah. He is a character out of the abrahamic religions. It is widely believed by historians and scholars, that abrahamic religions may have absorbed a pre-existing flood myth from the Sumerian flood story. The tale of Ziusudra is known from a single fragmentary tablet written in Sumerian. The first part deals with the creation of man and the animals and the founding of their first cities. The tablet goes on to describe that the gods have decided to send a flood to destroy mankind. The god Enki (lord of the underworld sea of fresh water and Sumerian equivalent of Babylonian god Ea) warns Ziusudra, the ruler of Shuruppak, to build a large boat; the passage describing the directions for the boat is also lost. When the tablet resumes, it is describing the flood. A terrible storm raged for seven days, "the huge boat had been tossed about on the great waters," then sun appears and Ziusudra opens a window, prostrates himself, and sacrifices an ox and a sheep.
"Noah" also has more in common with the Greek mythology where he is compared to Deucalion, the son of Prometheus. Like Noah, Deucalion is a wine maker or wine seller; he is forewarned of the flood (this time by Zeus and poseidon) he builds an ark and loads it with creatures – and when he completes his voyage, gives thanks and takes advice from the gods on how to repopulate the Earth. Deucalion also sends a pigeon to find out about the situation of the world and the bird return with an olive branch. This and some other examples of apparent comparison between Greek myths and the "key characters" in the Old Testament/Torah have led recent biblical scholars to suggest a Hellenistic influence in the composition of the earlier portions of the Hebrew Bible.
See the similarities.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

I understand you feel that your faith tells you that nuh sahib was 900 years old and that he built a boat by himself that contained two of every animal on earth. Your faith tells you that. Let's compare the ark to say, the Titanic:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: center"]

Titanic
Nuh's Boat

Height
175 feet
45 feet

Length
882 feet
450 feet

Width
92 feet
75 feet

Construction
Steel
Hand Chopped Wood

Capacity
3547 People
Food/Water for 2 wks
8 people
18,000 Birds
12,000 Reptiles
8,000 Mammals
5,000 Amphibians
2,000,000 Insects
Food/Water for ALL for 1 year

No amount of faith makes something a fact.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Peace,

Islam till today invites towards worship only 'One God' none others nor manys.

Consider this: "As Archeological evidence suggests both were polytheistic, so they were invited towards on true God but they refused and were destroyed (killed) otherwise why they were killed (destroyed)? To guide these pplz on right path, one true God Almighty Allah sent His messenger Noah a.s. but they refuted him and were destroyed by flood. Basically, the polytheists were invited to worship only one God not many. The other characters i.e., tale of Ziusudra, god enki were actuall the myth to astray people from what is right. Maybe ziusurda and/or god enki referred to true God and His messenger but the historian presented in such way.

In response to this, Almighty Allah said in Qur'an: "Or do they say [about Prophet Muhammad], "He invented it"? Say, "If I have invented it, then upon me is [the consequence of] my crime; but I am innocent of what [crimes] you commit."

As far the size of Noah a.s. ship, Muhammad bin Ishaq mentioned from the Tawrah, "Almighty Allah commanded him (Noah a.s.) to make it (the ship) from Indian oak wood. Then He commanded him to make its length eighty cubits and its width fifty cubits. Almighty Allah then commanded him to coat its interior and exterior with tar and to make it with a slanted bow to part the water (as it sailed). Its height was hirty cubits into the sky. It had three levels and each level was ten cubits high. The lowest level was for the animals, both tame and wild, the second level was for the human beings and the highest level was for the birds. Its door was in the center of it and it had a cover on top of it that overed the entire ship".

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

lol

Did you understand the point I was trying to make?

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Peace Dr. Lulworth,

How do I understand if u don't elaburate.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Dr. Lulworth's point was that even a ship like the Titanic could only hold about 1,000 people for two weeks, yet the Ark somehow held thousands of mammals and birds, and millions of insects, as well as the food required to feed them, for 1 year. That's not physically possible.

The Harappans weren't destroyed, they moved further inland into the Ganges plain because of changing climate. The monsoon rains around the Indus were not as bountiful as they used to be so the people moved.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Peace Dr. LuLworth :hehe: funny name. ..

None of the specifics are corroborated by Islamic references … You have done this before, the criticisms you bring regarding Christian/Jewish sources you want to apply to us too.

Islam as far as I know does not state the whole world was flooded, it does not say the world’s lot of animals were taken and I’m not sure about this one year duration either.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Peace Ghost14,

:hat: but I want him to explain about the comparison he made. :slight_smile:

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Well IMO the onus is on you LKK and Psyah tonprovide details of flooding ship size etc. Since Noah flooding etc was brought up LKK earlier post.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

Peace Southie,

So far I didn't came across any source which describe the size of the ship.

re: ONE GOD, ONE CREED" -[Part-1] The Indus Valley and Noah a.s.

What is the historical evidence not religious evidence for existance of a man named Noah ?