Once Hero and Now Zero

Once upon a time he was a hero and role model for whole nation. This shows how Pakistanis are dumb and stupid.

http://dawn.com/2006/05/13/top10.htm

Daughter barred from meeting Dr Khan

ISLAMABAD, May 12: The government has barred family members of Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan from visiting him, sources close to the nuclear scientist told Dawn on Friday.

The sources said that Dr Khan’s daughter, Ms Aysha Khan, was the only member in his family who had permission to see her father in what the government called ‘protective custody’. New orders have withdrawn that facility, the sources added.

Inter-Service Public Relations director-general Maj-Gen Shaukat Sultan confirmed that Ms Khan had been stopped from visiting her father.

“She has been stopped for the time being for security reasons,” he said.

About the possibility of shifting Dr Khan to a ‘safe house’, Gen Sultan said it was a baseless allegation that the scientist was being sent to any such place.

Other sources, however, said that a safe house was being established in Dr Khan’s guest house located within the periphery of his residence.

Dr Khan was taken into custody on Jan 31, 2004 under the Security Act of Pakistan 1952 for allegedly transferring nuclear technology and centrifuges to foreign countries.

According to sources, maximum detention under the Security Act of Pakistan was two years. Dr Khan has been continuing under custody for two years and three months.

The foreign office recently announced that the government had closed the chapter of Dr Khan. However, he has not been released.

The sources said that Dr Khan, who turned 71 on April 1, was suffering from high blood pressure, cervical spondylosis, hernia, dental ailment and heart problems.

A senior official of the Khan Research Laboratories, Dr Farooq was detained in Nov 2003. Some of his other colleagues, Dr Nazir, Dr Mansoor, Brig (retd) Sajawal, Brig (retd) Tajwar and Maj (retd) Islam, were held on Jan 17, 2004 for debriefing.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Yeap. Pakistanis are $tupid that they pick namak haram AQ Khan a clear cut zero, to be their hero.

Why the hell he himself got involved in dealing with Iranian Mullahtics and Libyan madman. Both of these Islamic-brother-hood-hood pointed fingers directly at this zero. Then this zero comes on national TV and confesses his haram khori.

Sad utterly sad for Pakistan. That even our nuclear program is not safe from the petty Muslim-brother-hood-hood.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

ISPR says Maj Gen Shaukat Sultan was misquoted.
http://dawn.com/2006/05/14/nat21.htm

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Also, Dr. AQ Khan wasnt really a big player in the nuclear development, it was Dr. Samar Mubarak and his PAEC. Dr. Khan’s KRL, all they did was nuclear refinement. They werent even asked to do anything when Pakistan was getting ready to test fire the nukes, and then AQ Khan lodged a complaint. Read the link below, its an interesting read.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Pakistan/PakTests.html

AQ was more of a smuggler than a scientist.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Thank goodness an idiot like you wasn’t in charge when Pak put together its nuclear program.

AQ Khan has made billions, but was critcial in Pak nuclear development, and is being made a scapegoat to protect all those general’s involved with him. But you would never acknowledge this :rolleyes:

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Yet another post from www.theonion.com.

Generals: no money in Dubai
AQK: Many billions in Dubai

Generals: No flights to Tehran and Libya
AQK: Visited Muslim brotherhood-hood very often

Generals: Not picked by Muslim brotherhood hood of Iran and Libya
AQK: Target of Ayatullah bums, and Qaddafi like dumbs

Generals: target of the really good deals of Luton stores
AQK: hero of the really bad deals from Luton stores

So TRD, Ayatuallahs of Iran would have loved to include Pak generals in their bearded finger pointing rage. Still both Iranians and Libyans picked AQK.

You can still believe in Kabuli Kommie's stories. It is your choice.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Please! I believe (and many consider this as fact) is that AQ Khan was made scapegoat to safe guard Pakistan from all sanctions that was seen coming from UN, USA and west due to Pakistan involvement in nuclear spread (nuclear proliferation).

Pakistan is not a signatory of NPT, thus they do not have any legal obligation but only moral obligation in curbing of nuclear proliferation (depending on how one looks at it). Unfortunately, Pakistan had no choice regarding nuclear proliferation, as there was no easy help for nuclear program available from anywhere in the world. On top of that, Pakistan had corrupts on the driving seat who use to make sure that Pakistan always stay under the threat of bankruptcy.

Pakistan needed money (hard cash in dollars) for research and needed technology for delivery system (that Pakistan was developing locally plus also acquiring it from China and Korea). For both (nuclear and missile programs), Pakistan needed hard cash (dollars) and plenty of it. Bankrupt country and expensive program needed some juggling and that is where some Muslim countries with spare cash came in.

Pakistan defence budget is around 3 billion dollars whereas Pakistan had to compete with India that has defence budget of around 18 billion dollars, so for defence Pakistan need lot of juggling. One should remember that it is unimaginable, rather impossible for an individual, however powerful and important, to do such a big job as nuclear proliferation on his own, without the involvement of other top ranking officials in the government (that means country itself).

As far as A Q Khan becoming zero from hero, it is illusive believe: 

Zero! In whose eyes?
West, Israel and India?
Well, he was always evil for them.
In the eyes of Pakistanis?
No way. Still majority of Pakistanis love him as hero.
In the eyes of Muslim world?
No way. Still most respect him and huge number considers him hero.
In poor countries of the world?
No way. Some know him and most do not know him. Those who know him would consider him hero, as it should not matter to them that if he was involved in nuclear proliferation or not.

Many around the world probably started knowing him after this event and started respecting him too. All know that west (and USA) is not against nuclear proliferation because nuclear proliferation would make world unsafe, but they are against nuclear proliferation because they want to have nuclear power only in their hand and dominate the world. So even getting blame of nuclear proliferation does not make a person zero in the eyes of the people but it only make a person evil in the eyes of those who already have nuclear power.

A Q Khan was evil in the eyes of west anyhow. As for world, world will always going to remember him as the person who made Pakistan a nuclear power and later saved Pakistan from severe sanctions by taking blame of any nuclear proliferation done by Pakistan on his own head. Both of his work, that is making Pakistan nuclear and taking the blame of nuclear proliferation on his own head, was noble for Pakistan and make him hero twice.

I believe that his position and status in the eyes of many even outside Pakistan has gone up. As far as his reputation in the world, I do not believe that what happened adversely affected that, rather he is more recognized and far more respected now then he was before. It is different matter that those who do not know or cannot analyze the truth, may think that his reputation has gone down.

Actually, after becoming nuclear in May 1998, the biggest threat came towards Pakistan was 9/11. There was possibility for many worse things. There is believe that 9/11 was made to happen by vested interest to create excuse to put severe sanctions on Pakistan or attack outright (wild and puny Afghanistan with irrelevant world value was never a target). Expectation was that Pakistan may act foolishly and would get caught in the web. Musharaf prompt response and action out footed and frustrated those planning against Pakistan, giving upper hand to the policy makers in pentagon more sympathetic towards Pakistan.

USA said to Musharraf that ‘either you would like Pakistan to stand with me or against me’.

In reply, Musharaf told USA that ‘I trust Allah. If Allah is with Taliban then they don’t need me or Pakistan neither you (USA) could do anything to them; but if Allah is against Taliban them then obviously it is best to stay away from them and let you (USA) become qahar-e-illahi for them’.

In frustration, USA attacked Afghanistan. It seems like Allah was against Taliban and let the devil (USA) make TORA BORA of Taliban. Actually, Americans are double minded. They wants Taliban to join them in Afghanistan affairs as these Taliban were American children anyhow and it was due to USA that they were in that commanding position in Afghanistan. USA through CIA, Saudia and Pakistan ISI was providing everything to Taliban, including their morning tea and evening dinner. If Mullah and OBL are roaming free, it is not because they are illusive but because that is the desire. Mullah Omar and OBL are both very useful personalities in American designs. I do not think that USA would let them go down easily. If they get caught or killed then game would be over.

Once 9/11 did not succeeded in gripping Pakistan and crush Pakistan with severe sanctions (or military strikes), another conspiracy started against Pakistan about nuclear proliferation. Idea was to use excuse of nuclear proliferation to disarm nuclear Pakistan or put severe sanctions but again Pakistan successfully came out of it with the help of General Musharaf and A Q Khan ……………. (How? no need to mention again I guess).

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Is it true that he stole the technology and brought it to Pakistan?

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Are you really so naive to believe Pak nuclear program, controlled by the Army, could be sold without the involvment of the Army?

What makes you think Generals don’t have billions, and never went to Tehran?Former COAS, Gen.Beg, (amongst others) is well known to be a ‘profitable friend’ of Iran, deeply involved in their nuclear program

I know you don’t like to believe the truth when it suits you, but in this case the facts are obvious. :rolleyes:

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Dr. A Q Khan is a hero of Pakistan. For those people who are convinced by foreign propaganda and are blaming A.Q Khan.

Bhoarosa kar nahiin saktay ghulmon ki baseerat par
Ke Dunya mein faqt mardan e hur ki aankh hai bina

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Abey PPP ke jiyaley, I know more about the nuclear program than you can dream of, read from the link I have provided. Its idiots like you who follow politics and propoganda and believe AQ Khan did everything, whereas all he did was a bit of uranium refinement, the real credit goes to PAEC and Dr. Samar and his scientists. Did you know AQ Khan and his KRL wasnt even informed when PAkistan was about to carry out the tests? After this AQ Khan made a strong appeal to let them be part of the tests. Did you know Nawazu Ganju thanked the PAEC first, and then said thanks to other orgranizations. Go educate yourself first you UK aloo store owner! Yeah, he did contribute somewhat by ‘smuggling’. He himself on numerous interviews (namely the documentary featuring Hoodhboy) has said that he believes 90% of the literature is obtained from other places, and 10% has to be unearthed. Who says smugglers cant contribute?

The real deal actually is the PAEC of Pakistan, not KRL.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Read portions in Italics, this is to educate you guys who actually carried out the tests in chagai!

Since Dr. Ishfaq Ahmed, Chairman of the PAEC was on a visit to the United States and Canada the responsibility of giving a technical assessment of the Indian nuclear tests and Pakistan’s preparedness to give a matching response to India fell on the shoulders of Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, Member (Technical), PAEC. Dr. Mubarakmand was in charge of the PAEC’s Directorate of Technical Development (DTD), one of the most secretive organizations in the Pakistan nuclear programme the location of which is one of Pakistan’s best kept secrets and unknown to the world. Dr. Mubarakmand had supervised several cold tests since 1983 and was responsible for overseeing all of PAEC’s classified projects. Also, in attendance was Dr. A.Q. Khan, Director of the Khan Research Laboratories (KRL), Kahuta.

True to form, when news reached A.Q. Khan that the task of testing a nuclear device had been assigned to PAEC, not KRL, he lodged a strong protest with the Chief of Army Staff, General Jehangir Karamat. The Army Chief, in turn, called the Prime Minister. To mollify Khan, it was decided that KRL personnel would be involved in the final preparation of the nuclear test site alongside those of PAEC as well as being present at the time of the test **[Azam 2000].](Pakistan References)

The nuclear devices were assembled separately at the test site in individual assembly rooms (“zero rooms”) located along the one kilometer tunnel under the mountain Koh Kambaran in the Ras Koh range. Azam states that Samar Mubarakmand personally supervised the complete assembly of all five nuclear devices (implying a very lengthy assembly process since it would have to be sequential, probably lasting more than a day). Diagnostic cables were then laid through the tunnel, and out of the tunnel to the telemetry station which communicated with the command/observation post 10 km away. Afterwards, a complete simulated test was carried out by tele-command. This process of preparing the nuclear devices and laying of the cables and the establishment of the fully functional command and observation post took 5 days (i.e. until about 24 May).

On 31 May, the day after the second test, the test team flew into the capital of Islamabad from Baluchistan Province in a special C-130 aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) Chairman Ishfaq Ahmed Khan, PAF officials and staff from NDC and KRL received the team. Dr. Samar Mubarakmand (aka Mubarak, Mubarik, Mobarak, Mubarik Mand, Mobarak Mand, Mubarik Mund, Mobarakmand, Mubarrakmand, etc., etc.) Director General of the PAEC National Development Complex (NDC) who led the test team was the chief recipient of the congratulations. Along with Mubarakmand, senior scientists Dr. Tariq Salija and Dr. Irfan Burney were the key members of the team - responsible for both developing and testing the devices.
“I congratulate the entire nation - We owe our success to their prayers and support,” said a heavily garlanded Mubarakmand said in his brief talk to the enthusiastic crowd.
“It is the outcome of team work, who worked dedicatedly day and night to come up to the expectations of the nation.”
The achievement, he said, “reflects the professional competence of the Pakistani engineers who in a short time accomplished the task.”
Later talking to the newsmen, Mubarakmand said, “we accomplished the given task in a matter of about eight days only.”
He was appreciative of his team of scientists, engineers and technicians who made the mission a success. He said, a team of around 150 scientists worked at Chagai.
According to the Associated Press of Pakistan, a senior scientist, who arrived with Mubarakmand said “we got the expected results.” He said, "the team stayed at the test site for 8-10 days and worked in excruciating temperatures, ranging up to 53 degrees Celsius.

A. Q. Khan posing in the test tunnel. The test director,
Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, was probably too busy to pose.

*One interesting and significant aspect of this address is the order chosen for Sharif’s congratulation of the organizations responsible. The organization chiefly responsible for the development of the nuclear devices, and the tests, was the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) not the better known Khan Research Laboratories (KRL). *

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Pakistan/PakTests.html

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Saleem,

“As far as A Q Khan becoming zero from hero, it is illusive believe:
Zero! In whose eyes?
West, Israel and India?
Well, he was always evil for them.”

Read my post again and the link. It is Pakistanis and government of Pakistan who made him zero. Are you trying to say that present Paki government is puppet of West, Israel or India?
If your answer is yes than go again to my first post and read it.

FARID

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

YOU are lecturing people about believing govt propaganda?!:omg: :omg: :omg:

Unlike you, other people live in Pakistan, and don’t get their knowledge from the net. Everything you said is old news, we know all about PAEC and don’t needs little kids like you to tell us

But since a dunce like you depends on the net for info on a country thousands of mile away from you, feel free to read the many articles, and enjoy spending your life on the net,

Unlike a loser like you, i have better things to do :hehe:

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Pakistan/AQKhan.html

Long celebrated as the “Father of the Pakistani Bomb”, A. Q. Khan deserves credit for providing Pakistan with the means for producing nuclear weapons, for without the uranium enrichment gas centrifuge plant built under Khan’s leadership, using classified and proprietary plans and technology that he stole from his former employer URENCO, Pakistan would not now have the ability to build dozens of nuclear weapons.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Abey PPP key jiyaley, I have spent 4 weeks at PAEC at a talent competition, you on the other hand are an uneducated PPP jiyala who thinks AQ Khan is a hero because your local PPP jiyala counselor told you so! read the second last line you 'quoted' you idiot, thats what I said, hes a 'smuggler', and you just wrote that yourself you mindles babboon!

[quote]
using classified and proprietary plans and technology that he stole from his former employer URENCO, Pakistan would not now have the ability to build dozens of nuclear weapons.
[/quote]

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

And also explain to me how your beloved Ganju Babu Nawaz (with hair) who is now so chummy with BB aunty, never even asked AQ in the first place when they were about to carry out the tests?

Like I said, AQ Khan is no scientist, hes a smuggler. Two types of people consider him a hero, uneducated fundamentalists in Pakistan (who all him babay-e-atum-bum), and people like you, who are using his entire angle as propoganda against the government for defaming him. But in reality, a chor is a chor, just like Zardari, Benazir, Nawaz Sharif (perfect examples of Pakistans best chors).

True scientists like Dr. Samar must be given credit.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

He became zero in Pakistani eyes the day he was singled out by Tehran and Libya (the two Islamic brother-hood-hoods).

No one was stopping Ayatullahs and the Gaddah-fi from implicating Generals, Sipahis, and Pattakhis.

In fact Ayatullahs would have loved to blame few Pak generals in the whole thing too, had they gotten a hold of them. This was the best time for Iranians to take revenge for the killing of Pakistani and Afghani Shias and Iranian diplomats.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

As for anyone thinking (or trying to promote the idea) that A Q Khan has turned zero from hero, I think that it is not A Q Khan but those who think him as zero are actually going through mental diarrhea. As for present government using him (as sacrifice) to save guard Pakistan from sanctions or other problems, it only shows that how important that person is and how badly some in west hate him. Regardless, no Pakistani government (or any person leading the government) can make him zero.

Fact is that, even the moment at that particular ‘face the press program’ Musharaf was sacrificing him for the country; Musharaf clearly mentioned that A Q Khan is hero of all Pakistanis, hero of Pakistan and his (Musharaf) hero too. Now, just imagine that how a person on one hand claiming that A Q Khan is his hero and at the same time putting blame on him regarding proliferation, a blame that even ‘an idiot’s guide on understanding things’ would say that it is impossible that one man can do that without the knowledge of the government.

Events that led to the situation, Musharaf statements calling him his hero and hero of the nation, circumstances that Pakistan was going through and circumstantial evidence at the time, all that existed then, an intelligent person can easily see that he was not made zero but rather double hero. Before taking blames of nuclear proliferation he was a hero once and then later after taking the blame of proliferation on his head, he became hero twice. Please read carefully what I wrote earlier as that would make things more clear.

Now regarding Pakistan nuclear program and AQ Khan:

I want to clear two things through this mail:

*Did AQ Khan steal the nuclear technology? Answer is ‘No’. *

What happened? From what I know, Russians were doing research on enriching uranium and western intelligence stole that technology and information associated with it. The technology came to the organization A Q Khan was working in Netherlands. The stolen papers were in German, a language A Q Khan knew very well. His employers gave him the task of translating the work and thus A Q Khan got the knowledge.

Later during the time of Z A Bhutto, Bhutto appealed Pakistanis working abroad to come to the country and help develop (it was general appeal). A Q Khan specialization is in metallurgist. Thus, A Q Khan applied for a job as metallurgist in Pakistan steel, without any response. Fortunately, he sent his CV to prime minister too and to his surprise, he got a call from Z A Bhutto. Prime minister was interested in nuclear weapon and that is where the story started. What I know, Z A Bhutto asked him if he can make Pakistan nuclear and answer was ‘Yes’. Bhutto then told him to forget metallurgist job in Pak steel and go for nuclear research for Pakistan. Initially his work was under PAC (Pakistan Atomic energy commission) but people in PAC (most of them are incompetent) started making trouble and A Q Khan decided to leave Pakistan. Bhutto acted and made his work independent of PAC with fund started coming directly from ministry of finance.

AQ Khan having the knowledge and method of enriching the Uranium plus having experience in working in western research, started his research in Pakistan. By 80s, Pakistan probably had the most advanced research in enriching uranium, probably more advanced then Russia and USA.

Now, I do not think that if a person learns something at work and then move to another job, he is doing anything wrong. I also do not think that if a person uses the knowledge he learned or gained in his first job into his next job, it is unethical or stolen knowledge. Thus, I do not think that A Q Khan did anything wrong or stolen anything for Pakistan. Only what he did was that what he learned in his earlier job, he used that for the benefit of Pakistan (in his next job).

As for who made Pakistan nuclear?

A Q Khan made Pakistan nuclear power in by mid 1980s.

From site: //fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/nuke/chron.htm

1986--Bob Woodward article in Washington Post cites alleged DIA report saying Pakistan `detonated a high explosive test device between Sept. 18 and Sept. 21 as part of its continuing efforts to build an implosion-type nuclear weapon;' says Pakistan has produced uranium enriched to a 93.5% level.

There are two ways to acquire Nuclear weapons. One is by using highly enriched Uranium (HEU) and other is by using weapon grade plutonium (spent Plutonium). Spent plutonium is a byproduct of fuel used in heavy water nuclear reactors.

To make nuclear device using weapon grade plutonium (spent plutonium) is not a big deal as the material comes automatically when country has heavy water nuclear reactor (for research or to produce electricity) and produced enough material. Thus, in most countries, International atomic energy agency (IAEA) monitors and keeps records of all spent plutonium. Pakistan do not build their own heavy water nuclear reactor and thus even if Pakistan built a nuclear device using spent plutonium, it is scientific achievement but not something to crow about.

For nuclear device using highly enriched material, one needs to first gain technology to enrich uranium (it is not found as byproduct neither one can buy them). The technology of enriching uranium and all enriched uranium that Pakistan has, Pakistan is indebted to A Q Khan.

At present, what I know, no country has nuclear weapon using enriched uranium except Pakistan. Actually, very few countries in the world have the technology to enrich uranium to the level where they can produce nuclear device. These selected countries are almost all rich western countries, Russia and Pakistan. Iran may have obtained it by now. It is also possible (as many in west claim) that Pakistan has transferred it to China and Korea in exchange of missile technology.

In May 1998, Pakistan did several nuclear explosions. Most of them were using enriched uranium (credit goes to A Q Khan) though Pakistan claims that they also did explosion of device using spent plutonium (credit goes to Pakistan atomic energy commission, PAC).

Well, PAC using spent plutonium to make nuclear device for Pakistan is much later development (mid to late 1990s), some 10 years later. The reason being, as I mentioned earlier, Pakistan was already nuclear by mid 1980s made by A Q Khan.

Estimate of Pakistan nuclear capability in 2001 was:
from: //fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/nuke/

The Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) estimates that Pakistan has built 24-48 HEU-based nuclear warheads, and Carnegie reports that they have produced 585-800 kg of HEU, enough for 30-55 weapons. Pakistan's nuclear warheads are based on an implosion design that uses a solid core of highly enriched uranium and requires an estimated 15-20 kg of material per warhead. According to Carnegie, Pakistan has also produced a small but unknown quantity of weapons grade plutonium, which is sufficient for an estimated 3-5 nuclear weapons.

Advice: Please do not write or say things that can only make a person exposed as ignorant as at present there are enough materials on the net for those who would like to know the truth. To start, here is a site that would give a lot of information on Pakistan nuclear capabilities and its background. Please read it carefully, try to understand and then only make comments.

Pakistan nuclear programs:

//fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/nuke/chron.htm

Pakistan nuclear test:

//fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/nuke/

Pakistan missiles:

//nuclearweaponarchive.org/Pakistan/PakArsenal.html

One should also read the above site on missiles and think (use some head). One would notice that most of our missiles technology is coming from KRL. KRL (Kahuta research laboratory) is the research laboratory that was doing work entirely under A Q Khan.

Other thing to note is that, Pakistan estimated capability of having nuclear device using spent plutonium was around 3 to 5. Now according to ‘an idiot guide to mathematics’ a country that has little spent plutonium, that is enough to make 3 to 5 nuclear device would not be able to do 7 nuclear test and regardless, wont be stupid to use them all in testing.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

^ Challo, missile technology coming from KRL?? dude KRL doesnt even take credit for that themselves, they deal with 'refinement'! But then again, ure not even admitting AQ stole plans, which he has admitted himself alot of times.

Re: Once Hero and Now Zero

Oh and anyone seen the lavish houses he built? I remember seeing the one next to Rawal Dam, which had an 'aquarium' room too, it went into the dam! Where did all that money come from Saleem?